Player Discussion Elias Pettersson, Pt. XII

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docbenton

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Dec 6, 2014
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If Pettersson has a horrible season it's great for the Canucks. I really hated all those people saying he's getting $10 million which he was never worth. How about $6 over 3 years?
 

4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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I dont think so
Brayden Point got 6.75 million coming off 42 goals and 92 points.

He may have got the most powerful agent in the game, but it won't help him with this play.
Dont compare with Tampa. It’s like comparing apples and peanuts.
 

canuckking1

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Feb 8, 2015
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Legit think Canadian teams just have his number. I bet he'll have a down year and then go back to his PPG or even better self next year.
 
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4Twenty

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Legit think Canadian teams just have his number. I bet he'll have a down year and then go back to his PPG or even better self next year.
Do you think he's just going to continue this way all season? I wouldn't. He's too good. A few multi point games and he's back at PPG. It's only a matter of time before he starts getting touch points on the PP also, it'll even out that way.
 

canuckking1

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Feb 8, 2015
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Do you think he's just going to continue this way all season? I wouldn't. He's too good. A few multi point games and he's back at PPG. It's only a matter of time before he starts getting touch points on the PP also, it'll even out that way.

He's never really had a slump this bad, though. I think it'll affect his total as we like 15% into the season already. I think he'll slump for a few more games and then return his usual self as he starts getting his timing and confidence back, but it won't be enough to overcome the ground he's lost during the slump. My guess is .8-.85PPG.
 

4Twenty

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Dec 18, 2018
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He's never really had a slump this bad, though. I think it'll affect his total as we like 15% into the season already. I think he'll slump for a few more games and then return his usual self as he starts getting his timing and confidence back, but it won't be enough to overcome the ground he's lost during the slump. My guess is .8-.85PPG.
15 multi point games as a rookie, 4 of them with 3 or more, Two 5 point games.

2nd year 18 multi point games, 5 with 3 or more, one 4 point game.

The lotto line is too good to not pick it up.
 
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Royal Canuck

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Feb 10, 2011
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I know the Canucks are set on the 6-40-9 line for the time being, but if things continue going south, I wouldn't mind swapping Miller and Hoglander for a game just to see what happens.
 
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Bojack Horvatman

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Jun 15, 2016
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And some people in this thread said he wouldn’t care or change in a contract year :facepalm:

Ray Ferraro is talking about it right now on TSN
Said he hated contract years and performed terribly as it is sooo much pressure. But had 40 goal campaigns the year after contracts
Then you got guys like Jeff Skinner who had a 30 and 40 goal campaign in contract years.

said he can’t imagine what kids are going through now as if you look at some comparable these kid are getting $40 million in bonuses over the course of the first two seasons.

This is why basing value of a contract by the contract year is redicuously stupid.
 
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Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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The second-hand info I got was that he's pretty pissed with how the team kept lowballing Markström, with whom he is close, and is pretty much demonstrating that he's not going to yield to them. Could have a lot to do with his headspace now too, who knows.
Do we know if Petey is close to Miller? Miller was vocally pissed with the lose of Marky, Tanev, and Tofu. Maybe Petey and Miller are both super pissed at our management, and their frustration is getting to their play?
 

1440

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Feb 20, 2013
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It's been said before, but Pettersson is still generating good chances, especially on the PP.

He is being targeted by the opposition, which has opened up other side plays and put other players in the positions to get assists. He doesn't have the points for two reasons. One is that he just keeps getting 4th or 5th assists on the PP where the puck just touches every other player before going into the net on the other side plays (like Horvat's goals). And the second is that he is shooting ~10% below his career average on the PP, which is probably a lot to do with bad luck and a little to do with him being low confidence and missing shots that he normally would hit.

Points are overrated as a metric of evaluating performance, but it is clear that he cares about them, which is probably negatively impacting his confidence.

Hopefully the message from the coaching staff is just to stay the course. If he keeps doing what he is doing, his shooting% is bound to rise and with that the points will come.
 
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mathonwy

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Jan 21, 2008
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The second-hand info I got was that he's pretty pissed with how the team kept lowballing Markström, with whom he is close, and is pretty much demonstrating that he's not going to yield to them. Could have a lot to do with his headspace now too, who knows.
Everyone sees the inequity in the salary cap.

Players are not stupid. Players these days DO have arithmetic skills.

When your employer callously lets your closest (and top producing) friends walk to a direct competitor and expects you to continue to perform like a f***ing monkey with underskilled and undertalented scrubs... well... that's complete and utter horseshit and that employer can go f*** themselves.

Those games against Calgary were BRUTAL. Chris and Jacob are pros and can handle it but Petey and Quinn are just kids and Petey's body language was so terrible. I feel so bad for the players. :( :( :(

There is zero consideration for anyone except for themselves from this front office.

And that's not Benning or Weisbord. These two are just useful idiots.

That is the crux of the toxic Aquilini culture.
 

Fatass

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Apr 17, 2017
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This is why basing value of a contract by the contract year is redicuously stupid.
Short sample size is part of the Benning mantra. He watched Juiolevi for 3 games at the WJCs and then proclaimed “that’s our guy”, and disregarded the scouts, didn’t he? He then tried the same small sample mantra to draft Glass over EP, and Linden stepped in, right?
 

Bojack Horvatman

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Jun 15, 2016
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If Pettersson has a horrible season it's great for the Canucks. I really hated all those people saying he's getting $10 million which he was never worth. How about $6 over 3 years?

Pettersson his first two years was absolutely worth 10m based off his production compared to other players coming off of their ELCs. His two-way play was also excellent and he was like 3rd in the league in WAR last year. He was also over ppg in the playoffs and has one less point in the playoffs as Auston Matthews in 8 less games.

This season has been a completely different story however...
 
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Regal

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Mar 12, 2010
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I dont think so
Brayden Point got 6.75 million coming off 42 goals and 92 points.

He may have got the most powerful agent in the game, but it won't help him with this play.

It was significantly more production than his first two years though. Pettersson's age, potential, first two seasons and status on this team will play into his favour assuming he turns it around and still ends up at around .9 PPG or something. Point was also a bit of a steal.
 

M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
May 25, 2014
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Try him with the goal machine Sutter why not. Demote Boeser for LACK lusster effort, get Gaudette back in there and put our top point getter UP to the first line. Also bring up the local Shotgun guy up to the first line with Millsy and Captain B. Horvat

Miller Horvat Virtanen
Hoglander Gaudette Pearson
Pettersson Sutter Macewan
Motte Beagle Boeser
 
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mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
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Try him with the goal machine Sutter why not. Demote Boeser for LACK lusster effort, get Gaudette back in there and put our top point getter UP to the first line. Also bring up the local Shotgun guy up to the first line with Millsy and Captain B. Horvat

Miller Horvat Virtanen
Hoglander Gaudette Pearson
Pettersson Sutter Macewan
Motte Beagle Boeser
Sutter is our stealth 1C.

Contract year and foundation building.
 
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1440

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Feb 20, 2013
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Everyone sees the inequity in the salary cap.

Players are not stupid. Players these days DO have arithmetic skills.

When your employer callously lets your closest (and top producing) friends walk to a direct competitor and expects you to continue to perform like a f***ing monkey with underskilled and undertalented scrubs... well... that's complete and utter horseshit and that employer can go f*** themselves.

Those games against Calgary were BRUTAL. Chris and Jacob are pros and can handle it but Petey and Quinn are just kids and Petey's body language was so terrible. I feel so bad for the players. :( :( :(

There is zero consideration for anyone except for themselves from this front office.

And that's not Benning or Weisbord. These two are just useful idiots.

That is the crux of the toxic Aquilini culture.

They may not be stupid, but players are dumb. If Pettersson can't see that not re-signing Markstrom and Tanev was done with the specific goal of being able to re-sign him and Quinn in the near future then he is thicker than he looks (and he looks like a rake).
 

mriswith

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Oct 12, 2011
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They may not be stupid, but players are dumb. If Pettersson can't see that not re-signing Markstrom and Tanev was done with the specific goal of being able to re-sign him and Quinn in the near future then he is thicker than he looks (and he looks like a rake).
They aren't stupid. They are extremely aware of the weak links on their team and who really carries the load.

They see players like Myers, Loui, Beagle, Sutter, Roussel, Benn, Baertschi who contribute little to nothing and yet make 27 mil combined. And then the couple guys that were truly carrying the team with them walk.

Benning blew 11.5 mil cap only one year prior on a pile of crap that contributes next to nothing so letting the real contributors walk merely one year later over the exact same money can't make sense to the guys on team who understand who really carries the load.
 
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1440

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Feb 20, 2013
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They aren't stupid. They are extremely aware of the weak links on their team and who really carries the load.

They see players like Myers, Loui, Beagle, Sutter, Roussel, Benn, Baertschi who contribute little to nothing and yet make 27 mil combined. And then the couple guys that were truly carrying the team with them walk.

Benning blew 11.5 mil cap only one year prior on a pile of crap that contributes next to nothing so letting the real contributors walk merely one year later over the exact same money can't make sense to the guys on team who understand who really carries the load.

That is true, but they also probably overvalue players who are good teammates. Neither Markstrom, nor Tanev are worth what Calgary paid for them even if they are slightly better than the players that the Canucks replaced them with. Sure they may have been well-liked guys, but Holtby and Hamonic seem likeable too and are younger. Yes past mistakes played a part in those guys not getting re-signed, but in this case, not spending big money on a goalie is likely the correct use of money, so while Pettersson may not like it short term, if he is as intelligent as he seems, he will probably come to appreciate it in the long term.

You cannot both criticize Benning for spending too much on ageing free agents in the past and for not doing so now. Whatever the reasons, the correct free-agency decisions are now being made, and that should be lauded. Otherwise we may encourage management to slip back into their old ways.
 
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mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
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That is true, but they also probably overvalue players who are good teammates. Neither Markstrom, nor Tanev are worth what Calgary paid for them even if they are slightly better than the players that the Canucks replaced them with. Sure they may have been well-liked guys, but Holtby and Hamonic seem likeable too and are younger. Yes past mistakes played a part in those guys not getting re-signed, but in this case, not spending big money on a goalie is likely the correct use of money, so while Pettersson may not like it short term, if he is as intelligent as he seems, he will probably come to appreciate it in the long term.

You cannot both criticize Benning for spending too much on ageing free agents in the past and for not doing so now. Whatever the reasons, the correct free-agency decisions are now being made, and that should be lauded. Otherwise we may encourage management to slip back into their old ways.

That looked to be case with the JT Miller acquisition and the Leivo trade and I was praying that this trend would continue and then they signed Tyler Myers for 6M over 5 years and then traded Tyler Madden for Tyler Toffoli and then let our top 2 defensive players go to Calgary and that was that.

There is no redemption for this front office.

None whatsoever.
 

mriswith

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Oct 12, 2011
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That is true, but they also probably overvalue players who are good teammates. Neither Markstrom, nor Tanev are worth what Calgary paid for them even if they are slightly better than the players that the Canucks replaced them with. Sure they may have been well-liked guys, but Holtby and Hamonic seem likeable too and are younger. Yes past mistakes played a part in those guys not getting re-signed, but in this case, not spending big money on a goalie is likely the correct use of money, so while Pettersson may not like it short term, if he is as intelligent as he seems, he will probably come to appreciate it in the long term.

You cannot both criticize Benning for spending too much on ageing free agents in the past and for not doing so now. Whatever the reasons, the correct free-agency decisions are now being made, and that should be lauded. Otherwise we may encourage management to slip back into their old ways.
I mean it's the Pettersson thread not the management thread so I'm taking his perspective - he watched 11.5 mil of garbage signed to term the year before, ostensibly to "compete now". A first and 3rd was traded last summer to "compete now." Then there was a significant buy at the deadline to "compete now". Every message to the players was we're all in on competing now.

Then they outperform expectations by every metric in the playoffs.

Instead of being rewarded with more talent to compete now, instead they get to watch in summer while the real contributors are forced to walk when their first choice was to stay and the team gets significantly worse. Then Petey gets to start the season with Virtanen on his line.

It's terrible optics for the players and would be incredibly frustrating to be a part of. What you call "finally getting it right", they would call getting mixed messages while the team gets worse and a "shocking reboot" after a consistent year of "all in" messaging. There's no reason for the players to assume that it's part of a smart, long term plan when it's one year off of short term all in.

You can't expect players to take a long view of things in general, but especially not when managements apparent goals switch season to season - and sometimes mid season. They were employees given an objective, they over-achieved, and as a result their employer... lost confidence in them. From their point of view.

And from a non-players perspective, Benning offered 5 years to Markstrom, spent all summer after 28 year old 5th biggest dman contract in the league declining OEL, has apparently been after Barrie for two years now, none of which looks like someone planning for the long term future. They spent all last offseason and last season sacrificing the future to compete immediately and trading futures to compete immediately, only to now look like they're building for several years down the road. I'll take it, because it's what should have been happening for the last several years, but I'm not going to hold my breath that it continues. Benning will probably trade futures to compete this season too, which will complete the cycle of stupidity and mixed messages.
 
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