Player Discussion #40 Elias Pettersson, Pt. VI

[DDRhockey]

Why is it a waste?

you can develop just fine in NHL.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

you can develop just fine in NHL.

Not playing with Sutter / Beagle / Granlund as your center. That was the whole point.

 

[DDRhockey]

Not playing with Sutter / Beagle / Granlund as your center. That was the whole point.

Ahl has worse centers. Ahl can be detoriate to your career. Look at alex nylander.

Pettersson seems like an emotional guy, if things go wrong in ahl it might do more damage.

Let him develop in nhl like several other swedes has done.

 

[Pavel96]

Ahl has worse centers. Ahl can be detoriate to your career. Look at alex nylander.

Pettersson seems like an emotional guy, if things go wrong in ahl it might do more damage.

Let him develop in nhl like several other swedes has done.

What makes him seem like an emotional guy?

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Sarcasm....

Except they won the Cup in 2009

 

[DDRhockey]

What makes him seem like an emotional guy?

because he admitted it? (in swedish)


Anyway Canucks stance is that Pettersson starts with canucks this season. Nothing you can do about it.

 

[Pavel96]

because he admitted it? (in swedish)


Anyway Canucks stance is that Pettersson starts with canucks this season. Nothing you can do about it.

Lol "nothing I can do about it"? Where did that come from? Hilarious!

 

[Johnny Canucker]

If Skill level was even, I would take Goldy just due to age alone. That said, Goldys skill is far higher than the 2 guys you mentioned BUT because they have contracts , he will not only have to slightly outplay them, but outplay their contracts which is hard.

There shouldn’t be room for him, he is a fringe prospect. If he can’t beat out Granlund or Leipsic than get lost. Have fun in Utica

 

[DDRhockey]

Lol "nothing I can do about it"? Where did that come from? Hilarious!

Because after dominating SHL there is zero reason to dump him in ahl. Canucks orga seems clear about this also.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Ahl has worse centers. Ahl can be detoriate to your career. Look at alex nylander.

Pettersson seems like an emotional guy, if things go wrong in ahl it might do more damage.

Let him develop in nhl like several other swedes has done.

He won't make it in the NHL if "things going wrong in the ahl" damage him.

@bobbyb2009 Brought up a good point in that transitioning to center in the AHL is a much smaller ask of Pettersson then expecting him to adjust to NHL speed + going back to center from wing.
So he could center Dahlen / Palmu / Jasek / Gadjovich etc. in the AHL. Far better then playing with offensive blackholes like Sutter and Beagle.

 

[DDRhockey]

He won't make it in the NHL if "things going wrong in the ahl" damage him.
.

Puljujärvi scored 0.5 PPG in 10 ahl gameslast season and got emergency promoted to NHL because things weren't working for him down there. Mittelstadt wasn't even PPG in NCAA, but scored almost PPG pace in NHL.

 

[Kryten]

Puljujärvi scored 0.5 PPG in 10 ahl gameslast season and got emergency promoted to NHL because things weren't working for him down there. Mittelstadt wasn't even PPG in NCAA, but scored almost PPG pace in NHL.

Mittelstadt was scoring at 88% in the NCAA and 83% in the NHL for his short stint

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Puljujärvi scored 0.5 PPG in 10 ahl gameslast season and got emergency promoted to NHL because things weren't working for him down there. Mittelstadt wasn't even PPG in NCAA, but scored almost PPG pace in NHL.

What does that have to do with what I said?

 

[DDRhockey]

Mittelstadt was scoring at 88% in the NCAA and 83% in the NHL for his short stint

pretty remarkable going from 88% to 83% in this case.

Pettersson wont see any AHL time. Mark my words.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

pretty remarkable going from 88% to 83% in this case.

Pettersson wont see any AHL time. Mark my words.

You are probably right. They need something to sell tickets.

 

[Pavel96]

Because after dominating SHL there is zero reason to dump him in ahl. Canucks orga seems clear about this also.

All I said was - what makes him seem emotional? And then you went off.

I'm all for as many prospects making the team as possible! Regardless, the canucks will give him every opportunity to make the team- because at this point, if nothing else, him making the team 'shows the future is bright' and will give the fans something to actually cheer for (amidst the horrible season ahead of them). The only reason (or 90% of it) Benning was extended was because of Boeser. If Boeser was tracking like Virtanen or Olli I really doubt he would have been extended. If Boeser and EP can get up to a consistent ppg by the 19-22 seasons I could see Benning and Linden getting new contracts off that alone.

 

[Jack Burton]

He won't make it in the NHL if "things going wrong in the ahl" damage him.

@bobbyb2009 Brought up a good point in that transitioning to center in the AHL is a much smaller ask of Pettersson then expecting him to adjust to NHL speed + going back to center from wing.
So he could center Dahlen / Palmu / Jasek / Gadjovich etc. in the AHL. Far better then playing with offensive blackholes like Sutter and Beagle.

@bobbyb2009 brought up a brilliant point and it's the way Pettersson should be handled. We can not screw up this prospect and just gift him a spot on a NHL roster. I think it's imperative that he starts in the AHL to get adjusted to NA hockey and learns the system. Absolutely play him at C and just let him work his magic.

There's no way he can play C now at the NHL level and the last thing I wanna see is him going shoulder to shoulder with the NHL's best defensemen on the wing and turning him into a perimeter player who can only score on the PP.

If he's ready then he'll make it but we really need to make a C out of him.

 

[VintageBure]

He's starting with the big club, after the sedins retired his spot is pretty much penciled in; the only problem is I can't think of a centre on our team besides horvat to be the centre on his line.

 

[bobbyb2009]

Because after dominating SHL there is zero reason to dump him in ahl. Canucks orga seems clear about this also.
.......
pretty remarkable going from 88% to 83% in this case.

Pettersson wont see any AHL time. Mark my words.

On the idea that he won't see any time in the AHL, you are almost certainly correct. I only see it happening if he simply isn't strong enough to compete- and then the "sky will be falling" as so many people get nervous. I agree with you, something terrible or ongoing dreadful play would have to occur before he gets sent somewhere- and at that point, I think there would be a push from his camp to give him a chance gain confidence by being sent back to Sweden rather than the AHL (would be a big miss in my view). Regardless, it is almost certain the Canucks will give him every possible benefit of the doubt to play in the NHL right off the bat.

The kid is such a talent that he should be playing in the NHL; certainly if two things were to be in place- he is stronger/healthy to train all summer before start of camp and the Canucks have an environment and line mates who could both protect/insulate and play off of him. We will see if he comes in healthy and stronger, but it is clear right now that the Canucks have nobody to help him to succeed.

Though, there most certainly is more than zero reasons to play/support him the AHL (as opposed to dumping him there- I don't understand your characterization in this case and situation):

1) The players he is going to be asked to play with in Vancouver will almost certainly not be players who will compliment him for offensive success. He is unlikely to be playing with Bo and Brock off the start, as EP is not ready to face number one pair D and shutdown NHL players. He will have to be brought out as secondary offence (sheltered a little to start), but with who? IMO, his line mates in this team at this time will be more like anchors than drivers of offence. Unless moves are made to change things, I am guessing it will be Sutter and Ericsson types (now that they have brought in guys to fill the tougher minutes Sutter was taking up all of last year). These guys will protect him defensively as well as any, but he isn't going to succeed offensively with them feeding him the puck for one timers (does Sutter even pass the puck?). They certainly are not going to be there to finish his passes either. The kind of opposition he faces and the line mates he plays with are clearly an important consideration for his development. In my view there is an argument that he would be better off for a short time facing slightly less difficult opposition while playing with more like minded players.

2) As a percentage, my guess is so few players transition from wing to centre in the NHL. It happens, but way more often, players who start on the wing stay on the wing, even after multiple attempts trying to transition. One could argue it doesn't matter if EP is a centre or not. My argument is that it does, especially based on the makeup of this team moving forward. We will forever be in search of a centre to play with him or we could have him as a centre who can feed and play off a guy like Brock. That pair could make a fantastic number one line in the near future. Therefore, reason number 2 to start him as a centre in the AHL is to allow him to take important development steps as a centre down there. And as mentioned, he would get offensive line mates (or appropriate players to play with), and take number one centre duties in a league that would allow him to have some NA success before making the jump. He could grow together with the type of players who could step into an offensive/sheltered NHL line 2 scenario very quickly- maybe even before the end of the year.

3) Reason three is it would keep him away from the dumpster fire this is going to be in Vancouver again this year. Utica could have some success, some fun, and great weight room and skill development time while he adapts to life in North America. On the contrary to your statement of him being "dumped" into the AHL, I think it might be worse that he is "Dumped" into the NHL.

Now, here I have shown 3 of many other reasons that would support the AHL. Clearly there is an argument for it. But yes, it is clear that he is both wanted, needed, and marketable in Vancouver. The chances of this management team making a decision to "support his development by allowing him time to develop in Utica" is almost zero, but not because there is zero reason to do it. Your words are marked, and it is a pretty safe and clear position to take, but I am one who believes it probably isn't best for him to start in the NHL under these conditions.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

On the idea that he won't see any time in the AHL, you are almost certainly correct. I only see it happening if he simply isn't strong enough to compete- and then the "sky will be falling" as so many people get nervous. I agree with you, something terrible or ongoing dreadful play would have to occur before he gets sent somewhere- and at that point, I think there would be a push from his camp to give him a chance gain confidence by being sent back to Sweden rather than the AHL (would be a big miss in my view). Regardless, it is almost certain the Canucks will give him every possible benefit of the doubt to play in the NHL right off the bat.

The kid is such a talent that he should be playing in the NHL; certainly if two things were to be in place- he is stronger/healthy to train all summer before start of camp and the Canucks have an environment and line mates who could both protect/insulate and play off of him. We will see if he comes in healthy and stronger, but it is clear right now that the Canucks have nobody to help him to succeed.

So, there most certainly is more than zero reasons to play/support him the AHL (as opposed to dumping him there- I don't understand your characterization in this case and situation):

1) The players he is going to be asked to play with in Vancouver will almost certainly not be players who will compliment him for offensive success. He is unlikely to be playing with Bo and Brock off the start, as EP is not ready to face number one pair D and shutdown NHL players. He will have to be brought out as secondary offence (sheltered a little to start), but with who? IMO, his line mates in this team at this time will be more like anchors than drivers of offence. Unless moves are made to change things, I am guessing it will be Sutter and Ericsson types (now that they have brought in guys to fill the tougher minutes Sutter was taking up all of last year). These guys will protect him defensively as well as any, but he isn't going to succeed offensively with them feeding him the puck for one timers (does Sutter even pass the puck?). They certainly are not going to be there to finish his passes either. The kind of opposition he faces and the line mates he plays with are clearly an important consideration for his development. In my view there is an argument that he would be better off for a short time facing slightly less difficult opposition while playing with more like minded players.

2) As a percentage, my guess is so few players transition from wing to centre in the NHL. It happens, but way more often, players who start on the wing stay on the wing, even after multiple attempts trying to transition. One could argue it doesn't matter if EP is a centre or not. My argument is that it does, especially based on the makeup of this team moving forward. We will forever be in search of a centre to play with him or we could have him as a centre who can feed and play off a guy like Brock. That pair could make a fantastic number one line in the near future. Therefore, reason number 2 to start him as a centre in the AHL is to allow him to take important development steps as a centre down there. And as mentioned, he would get offensive line mates (or appropriate players wit play with), and take number one centre duties in a league that would allow him to have some NA success before making the jump. He could grow together with the type of players who could step into an offensive/sheltered NHL line 2 scenario very quickly- maybe even before the end of the year.

3) Reason three is it would keep him away from the dumpster fire this is going to be in Vancouver again this year. Utica could have some success, some fun, and great weight room and skill development time while he adapts to life in North America. On the contrary to your statement of him being "dumped" into the AHL, I think it might be worse that he is "Dumped" into the NHL.

Now, here I have shown 3 of many other reasons that would support the AHL. Clearly there is an argument for it. But yes, it is clear that he is both wanted, needed, and marketable in Vancouver. The chances of this management team making a decision to "support his development by allowing him time to develop in Utica" is almost zero, but not because there is zero reason to do it. Your words are marked, and it is a pretty safe and clear position to take, but I am one who believes it probably isn't best for him to start in the NHL under these conditions.

Lovely post. Summarizes my thoughts far better than I would have.

 

[bobbyb2009]

Lovely post. Summarizes my thoughts far better than I would have.

Cheers

 

[CanaFan]

Lots of players never play a single game in the AHL without being “gifted” anything. AHL is a development league. If Pettersson doesn’t need it, he shouldn’t go.

 

[ChilliBilly]

There is also another side to this. Because of ELC, a player makes a fraction in the AHL .... are you really wanting to tell this No. 1 ranked prospect in the world that he's to take a 90% pay cut and work his way up? And do you really think the only thing other than Boeser that will put hot butts in the seats will be sent to the AHL? He will get a long look, and if out of place, may get sent down. But he starts in Vancouver.

 

[clunk]

Put him with Eriksson as a mentor and Gagner as his centre to start, I guess.... Or perhaps Dahlen makes the team and could go on his wing, who knows. All I know is, this team is a jumbled mess.

 

[wonton15]

Our first line will be Pettersson Horvat Boeser by the end of December. Hopefully sooner