Speculation: EK next offseason

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Six years is way too long for the rebuild. Wings should be looking to compete in 2 years and be poised in 4 years.

Zadina should be a big time producer by 22, if he is the real deal, and that's 4 seasons away. By that point the other guys like Ras and Larkin are primed too. Our window isn't 6 years out and beyond, it's when our top prospects are at or before 25.

If you miss that window, odds are your prospect core was a miss (could still be close) and you'll need to retool again (because they'll also be looking at big raises). We're going into season 3 of the earnest rebuild. Tacking another 6 years would be a brutal timeframe, in my opinion.

I said 5 or 6 years and you're saying "poised" in 4 years which is what I meant, so really it's the difference of a year or two. Though I like your timeline better.

EK sure makes the next couple years a whole lot more fun to watch, I just don't know how the giant cap hit and term will time out with being able to assemble a Cup-worthy team in four or five years.

Then there's the X factor that the CBA expires in 2022 if neither side opts out next year, so we'll likely be losing a half to a full season of players in their prime during that window.

(that's not really super relevant to any EK contract but a potential lockout just dawned on me)

 

[Shaman464]

Their cap situtation isn't great. They also have a barren prospect pool with their best players being on the wrong side of 30. I really hope he doesn't sign long-term because they are all-in this season and will NOT be a top contender going forward.

He might be signing because he believe they can win a cup in the next three years then he can play out his contract as a cup winner, with a ton of money, in one of the best parts of the country to live. Instead of hoping that before he's declining that a team can get their act together and compete ala Detroit.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I know what you mean but what's a bounceback after a 62p in 71 games season? That's a 71 point full season for a defenseman..

Would kinda shock me if he didn't sign with the Sharks long term now. Then again he certainly doesn't owe them anything and he didn't personally sign up for the trade.

Karlsson always manages to put up points but even Sens fans were admitting he was pretty bad for a lot of last season.

I think he's an average defender in his own end without the puck and last season he was below that.

 

[lomekian]

Realistically the timing is unlikely to work for the Wings on this one unless he has a previously unreported fan-hood of the team, or unless a whole load of our younger players take big leaps forwards AND the draft is kind to us in the coming summer AND him and SJ aren't a great fit (tho' it does feel like a last roll of the dice for them).

 

[Shaman464]

Six years is way too long for the rebuild. Wings should be looking to compete in 2 years and be poised in 4 years.

Zadina should be a big time producer by 22, if he is the real deal, and that's 4 seasons away. By that point the other guys like Ras and Larkin are primed too. Our window isn't 6 years out and beyond, it's when our top prospects are at or before 25.

If you miss that window, odds are your prospect core was a miss (could still be close) and you'll need to retool again (because they'll also be looking at big raises). We're going into season 3 of the earnest rebuild. Tacking another 6 years would be a brutal timeframe, in my opinion.

The problem is Detroit's forward and defense prospects are out of sync and Detroit still lacks a legit #1 center. The worst #1 center offensively since the cap era was Krejci, but that was on the back of Tim Thomas having one of the best individual seasons of any goaltender ever, maybe the best ever, putting up a .939 in 82 games combined between regular season and playoffs. Without him they weren't going to go far. After that its Toews when he was pretty much a ppg player, or Kopitar (who had Quick and a great defense). Adding EK isn't going to make up for either the lack of elite defensive defenders, or the lack of an elite goal, or the lack of elite centers. If Detroit is able to contend on the back of an elite winger and an elite offensive defender and a smattering of good to replacement level talent everywhere else, they will do something that hasn't been done, and I personally believe they can't. So barring them winning Hughes, and getting a great defensive D-man to play with EK, Detroit with EK won't rise beyond what Ottawa was with EK.

 

[obey86]

I don't think they can get full relief for both salaries.

They don't need full relief. Did you miss the part where I said they have at least 18 million in cap space next year? That's assuming the cap doesn't rise at all, which it probably will. And that's assuming the Wings will get 0 relief from Franzen and Z, which they won't. The cap rose 4.5M this offseason, let's be conservative and project 4M for next season.

Next year's salary cap = 79.5M + 4M = 83.5M
Current 2019 Red Wing cap hits (including Franzen and Z) = 61.7M

Wings can go 10% over the cap in the offseason (+8.35M over the cap), meaning they can have up to cap hits of 91.85M in the offseason if they so choose before placing Z and Franzen on LTIR once the season starts. That means the Red Wings can effectively spend up to 81.82M (91.85 - Franzen (3.95) - Zetterberg (6.08) in Non Franzen and Non-Z cap hits next seasons.

Which basically means....The Wings basically have 51.67 in cap hits for next season with an effective salary cap of 81.82M.......making their available cap space in the offseason 30.15M.

Or to put it a simpler way:
Projected 2019 salary cap = 83.5M
Current 2019 cap hits = 61.7M
Current 2019 cap space = 21.8M
Max LTIR relief from Z and Franzen = 83.5M * 10% = 8.35M

21.8M + 8.35 = 30.15M in cap available to spend.

 

[Shaman464]

They don't need full relief. Did you miss the part where I said they have at least 18 million in cap space next year? That's assuming the cap doesn't rise at all, which it probably will. And that's assuming the Wings will get 0 relief from Franzen and Z, which they won't. The cap rose 4.5M this offseason, let's be conservative and project 4M for next season.

Next year's salary cap = 79.5M + 4M = 83.5M
Current 2019 Red Wing cap hits (including Franzen and Z) = 61.7M

Wings can go 10% over the cap in the offseason (+8.35M over the cap), meaning they can have up to cap hits of 91.85M in the offseason if they so choose before placing Z and Franzen on LTIR once the season starts. That means the Red Wings can effectively spend up to 81.82M (91.85 - Franzen (3.95) - Zetterberg (6.08) in Non Franzen and Non-Z cap hits next seasons.

Which basically means....The Wings basically have 51.67 in cap hits for next season with an effective salary cap of 81.82M.......making their available cap space in the offseason 30.15M.

Or to put it a simpler way:
Projected 2019 salary cap = 83.5M
Current 2019 cap hits = 61.7M
Current 2019 cap space = 21.8M
Max LTIR relief from Z and Franzen = 83.5M * 10% = 8.35M

21.8M + 8.35 = 30.15M in cap available to spend.

Cap hell isn't built in one offseason. Detroit will have to sign 6-7 roster players next season, if they spend near the cap (each player averaging 4.2 million or one EK and 6 players at 3 million) they will start to have problems if Mantha, AA, and/or Bert emerge as major players.

 

[Claypool]

Realistically the timing is unlikely to work for the Wings on this one unless he has a previously unreported fan-hood of the team, or unless a whole load of our younger players take big leaps forwards AND the draft is kind to us in the coming summer AND him and SJ aren't a great fit (tho' it does feel like a last roll of the dice for them).

He wants to be the highest-paid defenseman in the league playing a number 1 role for a team with an ownership group that will spend money to win. We can assume he'll want to be back in the Eastern Conference, so his options are Detroit, Boston, New York Rangers, Toronto, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and maybe New Jersey.

As much as I'm sure he'd love to play in Tampa, I don't think he's going to want Hedman's contract. I'm not sure Tampa can even consider paying him unless they somehow shed a lot of salary anyway.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I know what you mean but what's a bounceback after a 62p in 71 games season? That's a 71 point full season for a defenseman.

THIS. He put up 60 points on a gawd awful team. He may not eclipse that in San Jose with Burns on the team or they may give them both heavy PP time and he may blow that total out of the water. I cannot believe there is anyone who is a firm NO on that but whatever. I'm all in, particularly if we have Yzerman and Hughes. He'd get a ton of time with Hughes and Zadina. That would be fun as hell to watch. Now it depends on being able to actually draft Hughes and it depends on Karlsson not being hellbent on signing with a Cup favorite. So I'm not saying we have good odds here, I'm just wondering why people are flat out saying no.

 

[obey86]

Cap hell isn't built in one offseason. Detroit will have to sign 6-7 roster players next season, if they spend near the cap (each player averaging 4.2 million or one EK and 6 players at 3 million) they will start to have problems if Mantha, AA, and/or Bert emerge as major players.

So you’re saying if they sign a bunch of crappy contracts next offseason they could be in cap hell? Thanks genius. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? The original post insinuated they would need to move a bunch of contracts off the books to afford Karlsson next offseason, and that’s simply false as I have shown.

Signing Karlsson (say 13M), and having Zadina, Rasmussen, Hronek, and Cholowski on the roster next year gives them only 3 roster spots to fill with plenty of money to do it as those players are all on rookie deals. No one is forcing them to spend up to the cap on a bunch crappy contracts. Oh yeah, and two off seasons from now they have another 20 million coming off the books (not even including Franzens expiring contract) and the offseason after that another 11 million (again, not including zettrrbergs expiring contract).

You have no clue what you’re talking about, read up on how the salary cap works.

 

[Fear]

Do people in this thread genuinely believe that a near-contender coached by Babcock had a worse chance of attracting free agents than a basement team coached by Blashill??

 

[KJoe88]

Do people in this thread genuinely believe that a near-contender coached by Babcock had a worse chance of attracting free agents than a basement team coached by Blashill??

100% yes.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He might be signing because he believe they can win a cup in the next three years then he can play out his contract as a cup winner, with a ton of money, in one of the best parts of the country to live. Instead of hoping that before he's declining that a team can get their act together and compete ala Detroit.

Still as a fan of Karlsson I would rather have him in Dallas/Vegas/Tampa/etc than SJ.

 

[Shaman464]

So you’re saying if they sign a bunch of crappy contracts next offseason they could be in cap hell? Thanks genius. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? The original post insinuated they would need to move a bunch of contracts off the books to afford Karlsson next offseason, and that’s simply false as I have shown.

Signing Karlsson (say 13M), and having Zadina, Rasmussen, Hronek, and Cholowski on the roster next year gives them only 3 roster spots to fill with plenty of money to do it as those players are all on rookie deals. No one is forcing them to spend up to the cap on a bunch crappy contracts. Oh yeah, and two off seasons from now they have another 20 million coming off the books (not even including Franzens expiring contract) and the offseason after that another 11 million (again, not including zettrrbergs expiring contract).

You have no clue what you’re talking about, read up on how the salary cap works.

You're the one who seems clueless, first because the chances of all those players making it in the NHL is nearly 0. Some are going to bust. There is no way that 4 draft picks hit. Beyond that, those players do, unless they are replacement level will be getting second contracts very quickly afterwards worth more than the league minimum. and that 20 million in players coming off the books are more roster spots that need to be filled, and unless Detroit is still bottoming out, those players aren't likely going to come from recent draft picks, but from free agency. So its not like its 20 million that's going to be unspent. They only have 9 players under contract if they have EK in 2021 and would only have 35ish million in cap space (assuming the cap rises by about how it has over the last couple seasons, and EK gets near the amount that's speculated). That's 35 million to fill ~13 roster spaces. Lets say 2 of Ras, Zadina, Cholo and Hronek really do make the team and stick, which would be a pretty damned good record for 4 picks; that puts them at 11-12 spots with ~33 million. That's to fill 7-8 forward positions, and 4-5 defense positions. On a team that one would hope that has EK on it that isn't a bottom feeder. And those positions include top 4 defense and top 6 forward positions, possible even a top 6 center and a #2 defenseman. Not an easy task. Literally you're starting to get into cap hell. To have a great cap outlook, and sign EK to a huge contract, literally everything will have to go right for the rebuild, if, as statistics would point to, a couple prospects never make it in the NHL, then Detroit is left in a shit position.

 

[Shaman464]

Do people in this thread genuinely believe that a near-contender coached by Babcock had a worse chance of attracting free agents than a basement team coached by Blashill??

Yes, because people are delusional.

 

[obey86]

You're the one who seems clueless, first because the chances of all those players making it in the NHL is nearly 0. Some are going to bust. There is no way that 4 draft picks hit. Beyond that, those players do, unless they are replacement level will be getting second contracts very quickly afterwards worth more than the league minimum. and that 20 million in players coming off the books are more roster spots that need to be filled, and unless Detroit is still bottoming out, those players aren't likely going to come from recent draft picks, but from free agency. So its not like its 20 million that's going to be unspent. They only have 9 players under contract if they have EK in 2021 and would only have 35ish million in cap space (assuming the cap rises by about how it has over the last couple seasons, and EK gets near the amount that's speculated). That's 35 million to fill ~13 roster spaces. Lets say 2 of Ras, Zadina, Cholo and Hronek really do make the team and stick, which would be a pretty damned good record for 4 picks; that puts them at 11-12 spots with ~33 million. That's to fill 7-8 forward positions, and 4-5 defense positions. On a team that one would hope that has EK on it that isn't a bottom feeder. And those positions include top 4 defense and top 6 forward positions, possible even a top 6 center and a #2 defenseman. Not an easy task. Literally you're starting to get into cap hell. To have a great cap outlook, and sign EK to a huge contract, literally everything will have to go right for the rebuild, if, as statistics would point to, a couple prospects never make it in the NHL, then Detroit is left in a **** position.

I never said all of Zadina and company would hit as draft picks. But the players I listed are certainly much more likely to be on the roster than not be on the roster in within the next year or two. We're talking about cap space and the ability to sign players (in this case, Karlsson), not how good a hypothetical team with Karlsson would be. You keep changing the subject.

if the Red Wings sign Karlsson...and then all of (or the majority of) Zadina, Mantha, Rasmussen, 2019 top 5 pick, Cholowski, Hronek, etc all hit and become good players who will demand more money down the road...that's a GOOD problem to have, not a bad problem. The those players are good and demand more money, the Wings are going to wish they had someone like Karlsson on their roster because they aren't going to have a chance at another KArlsson type player. And hell, if all those players stink then Red wings are screwed anyways....Karlsson or no Karlsson making 14M. McDavid makes 12.5M, compared to Karlsson making 14M in this scenario, not that big of a difference in the big scope of things. Should the Oilers not have signed McDavid to that deal?

 

[Run the Jewels]

Cap hell isn't built in one offseason. Detroit will have to sign 6-7 roster players next season, if they spend near the cap (each player averaging 4.2 million or one EK and 6 players at 3 million) they will start to have problems if Mantha, AA, and/or Bert emerge as major players.

As we rebuild I think it is critical to determine who is a core player. Right now we are awful so the only person who has established himself as a core player is Larkin. He'll probably be a really good 2C in the Toews mold and will almost certainly be the next captain. Beyond that no one is a core player you build around. Karlsson would 100% be a slam dunk part of the core. I suspect Zadina will be but we don't know for sure so we have time to figure out his proper role. If someone is not a core player you don' t worry too much about their long term role or salary. This is one thing Chicago has done well, with the notable exception of Brent Seabrook. They went the loyalty/Holland route with that contract and it has played a major role in their downfall. They have also proven you can get rid of awful contacts if you want to do so. The better route would be to be to make some hard decisions and move guys rather than sign them to bad contracts. Holland is awful at this but I think Yzerman will be better. There's the Callahan contract which is a bad mark for Yzerman but he doesn't have the long list of awful contracts that Holland has doled out like candy on Halloween.

So IMO you need to show much less loyalty to guys who either are not core guys right now or guys who you suspect are about to pass out of their prime. A current example is Gus Nyquist who is a good player but needs to be traded before he passes out of his prime. If you sign him to a long term deal you are signaling he's part of your core and that leaves you less money to sign core guys. I would rather have that cap space available for guys who are currently elite - think Karlsson - and guys who are potentially going to be elite - think Zadina.

Mantha is a nice player but I have a hard time viewing him as a core piece. You will likely need to pay him but I'd be very focused on trying to trade him for a good #2 or very good #3 dman. AA should be a really good 3rd line player and you simply never let his salary get out of that slotting. If you can't make it work you have to trade him. He's not going to be a core guy and he's probably about to enter his prime so get the best years if you can and then trade him if that ends up being the proper decision.

If we are going to rebuild and then have a nice little run it is critical that you figure out who your core guys are and then you build around them. Anyone who is not core is not worth getting worked up about IMO. I don't think we'll look back in 5 years and say Mantha, AA or Bert were core players. And I like all those guys a lot.

 

[Pavels Dog]

As we rebuild I think it is critical to determine who is a core player. Right now we are awful so the only person who has established himself as a core player is Larkin. He'll probably be a really good 2C in the Toews mold and will almost certainly be the next captain. Beyond that no one is a core player you build around. Karlsson would 100% be a slam dunk part of the core. I suspect Zadina will be but we don't know for sure so we have time to figure out his proper role. If someone is not a core player you don' t worry too much about their long term role or salary. This is one thing Chicago has done well, with the notable exception of Brent Seabrook. They went the loyalty/Holland route with that contract and it has played a major role in their downfall. They have also proven you can get rid of awful contacts if you want to do so. The better route would be to be to make some hard decisions and move guys rather than sign them to bad contracts. Holland is awful at this but I think Yzerman will be better. There's the Callahan contract which is a bad mark for Yzerman but he doesn't have the long list of awful contracts that Holland has doled out like candy on Halloween.

So IMO you need to show much less loyalty to guys who either are not core guys right now or guys who you suspect are about to pass out of their prime. A current example is Gus Nyquist who is a good player but needs to be traded before he passes out of his prime. If you sign him to a long term deal you are signaling he's part of your core and that leaves you less money to sign core guys. I would rather have that cap space available for guys who are currently elite - think Karlsson - and guys who are potentially going to be elite - think Zadina.

Mantha is a nice player but I have a hard time viewing him as a core piece. You will likely need to pay him but I'd be very focused on trying to trade him for a good #2 or very good #3 dman. AA should be a really good 3rd line player and you simply never let his salary get out of that slotting. If you can't make it work you have to trade him. He's not going to be a core guy and he's probably about to enter his prime so get the best years if you can and then trade him if that ends up being the proper decision.

If we are going to rebuild and then have a nice little run it is critical that you figure out who your core guys are and then you build around them. Anyone who is not core is not worth getting worked up about IMO. I don't think we'll look back in 5 years and say Mantha, AA or Bert were core players. And I like all those guys a lot.

We have 2 seasons to figure out if Mantha/AA/Bert can be part of our core group. I don't think Nyquist would or could get the kind of contract that would impact our ability to sign our RFAs. And if it looks like we have a shot at EK, I don't think Holland would sign Nyquist at all.

 

[Run the Jewels]

We have 2 seasons to figure out if Mantha/AA/Bert can be part of our core group. I don't think Nyquist would or could get the kind of contract that would impact our ability to sign our RFAs. And if it looks like we have a shot at EK, I don't think Holland would sign Nyquist at all.

Nah, not really. I realize you have a Holland-like very sympathetic view of our entire prospect pool. If you actually look at it analytically based on how many guys make the Wings immediately as soon as they turn pro, it's pretty clear none of these guys are going to be core guys. Kronwall would have made the team immediately if not for the lockout. And that's when we had a really good defense. Larkin made it immediately. Datsyuk made it with a Stanley Cup team and with Scotty Bowman as the coach. Zadina should make it immediately unless we're still doing that braindead over-riping crap or are trying steal money from him by burying him in the AHL for part of the year. Great way to treat your best prospect in about 20 years.

None of these guys fill that role so you can't overvalue them. You absolutely cannot, and this is something Holland has been doing for roughly 5 years and you have completely supported. It needs to stop. These guys are all good players and they all have clear roles. So long as you pay them for their proper roles you are fine. Those roles:

• Mantha; 30ish goal scorer wing on a scoring line
• AA: third line winger
• Bert: bottom six grit

Now I'm not saying you trade these guys. All I am saying is you very rationally expect them to fit a role and so long as you have your salary slotted for them for the appropriate role and they accept that salary you are fine. The best example of this in Holland's tenure was Marty Lapointe. Super popular guy at the time. Seemed to have untapped offensive potential. However he wanted more money than what his role was accurately valued at so he left for Boston. And that's before there was a salary cap!

You do not pass on an elite player like Karlsson because you want to wait two years to see if Mantha, Athanasiou or Bertuzzi are core players. It's a terrible, awful decision that has no basis in reality. Any GM who used that rationale should be fired immediately.

 

[Shaman464]

I never said all of Zadina and company would hit as draft picks. But the players I listed are certainly much more likely to be on the roster than not be on the roster in within the next year or two. We're talking about cap space and the ability to sign players (in this case, Karlsson), not how good a hypothetical team with Karlsson would be. You keep changing the subject.

if the Red Wings sign Karlsson...and then all of (or the majority of) Zadina, Mantha, Rasmussen, 2019 top 5 pick, Cholowski, Hronek, etc all hit and become good players who will demand more money down the road...that's a GOOD problem to have, not a bad problem. The those players are good and demand more money, the Wings are going to wish they had someone like Karlsson on their roster because they aren't going to have a chance at another KArlsson type player. And hell, if all those players stink then Red wings are screwed anyways....Karlsson or no Karlsson making 14M. McDavid makes 12.5M, compared to Karlsson making 14M in this scenario, not that big of a difference in the big scope of things. Should the Oilers not have signed McDavid to that deal?

McDavid is 21 years old with at least a decade of Hart caliber hockey ahead of him. Karlsson will be a 29 year old offensive D-man with probably 3-5 years of good play ahead of him. To compare the two is laughable.

And ask Chicago how good it is to have to trade a good player when you're facing cap hell. Any of their fans can direct you to posts of them hating having to trade a good player of cheap because they have no leverage in a trade deal.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Nah, not really. I realize you have a Holland-like very sympathetic view of our entire prospect pool. If you actually look at it analytically based on how many guys make the Wings immediately as soon as they turn pro, it's pretty clear none of these guys are going to be core guys. Kronwall would have made the team immediately if not for the lockout. And that's when we had a really good defense. Larkin made it immediately. Datsyuk made it with a Stanley Cup team and with Scotty Bowman as the coach. Zadina should make it immediately unless we're still doing that braindead over-riping crap or are trying steal money from him by burying him in the AHL for part of the year. Great way to treat your best prospect in about 20 years.

None of these guys fill that role so you can't overvalue them. You absolutely cannot, and this is something Holland has been doing for roughly 5 years and you have completely supported. It needs to stop. These guys are all good players and they all have clear roles. So long as you pay them for their proper roles you are fine. Those roles:

• Mantha; 30ish goal scorer wing on a scoring line
• AA: third line winger
• Bert: bottom six grit

Now I'm not saying you trade these guys. All I am saying is you very rationally expect them to fit a role and so long as you have your salary slotted for them for the appropriate role and they accept that salary you are fine. The best example of this in Holland's tenure was Marty Lapointe. Super popular guy at the time. Seemed to have untapped offensive potential. However he wanted more money than what his role was accurately valued at so he left for Boston. And that's before there was a salary cap!

You do not pass on an elite player like Karlsson because you want to wait two years to see if Mantha, Athanasiou or Bertuzzi are core players. It's a terrible, awful decision that has no basis in reality. Any GM who used that rationale should be fired immediately.

I don't know how you interpreted my post, or what it has to do with being sympathetic to our prospect pool.
All I'm saying is there's no concern right now that kids will be overpayed. Mantha/AA/Bert got bridge deals precisely because we don't know what they are and Holland didn't want to go with a big contract that overrates them. Keep in mind a lot of people did want us to lock up Mantha for a long time on the hope that he will be a 30-40 goal scorer.
We're not going to pass on Karlsson because of these kids, or any other kids in our system. We will have plenty of cap space to go after Karlsson, it won't be an issue. There's also no history in Holland's tenure of paying guys like core players who aren't. Some depth guys have gotten too much term, but never been paid like core players.

 

[InjuredChoker]

If someone is not a core player you don' t worry too much about their long term role or salary. This is one thing Chicago has done well, with the notable exception of Brent Seabrook. They went the loyalty/Holland route with that contract and it has played a major role in their downfall. They have also proven you can get rid of awful contacts if you want to do so. The better route would be to be to make some hard decisions and move guys rather than sign them to bad contracts. Holland is awful at this but I think Yzerman will be better. There's the Callahan contract which is a bad mark for Yzerman but he doesn't have the long list of awful contracts that Holland has doled out like candy on Halloween.

So IMO you need to show much less loyalty to guys who either are not core guys right now or guys who you suspect are about to pass out of their prime. A current example is Gus Nyquist who is a good player but needs to be traded before he passes out of his prime. If you sign him to a long term deal you are signaling he's part of your core and that leaves you less money to sign core guys. I would rather have that cap space available for guys who are currently elite - think Karlsson - and guys who are potentially going to be elite - think Zadina.

i very much agree with the general philosophy only top end guys, first line F/pair D get long-term UFA deals.. history post-lockout suggests that long-term deal to a lower level guy will most likely end up being a bad one.

yzerman is a top 5 GM (if we're being very conservative) but excluding their high picks, his biggest mistakes have been extension to average/medicore players. he inherited garrison's deal but killorn and miller were his signings and they are probably not going to be easily moveable when tampa needs cap space in the future. could add matt carle here too.

drafting is a bit crap shoot so i won't mind if high picks are busts/relative busts every now and then especially if later round picks have as good success rate as tampa has had under their head scout (who's name escapes me now) who stevie y hired after their 1st draft. but long-term extensions to medicore/average players is something that is easily avoidable. i hope he gets rid of that habit if he comes here.

tampa has short cup window unless they keep up their insane drafting. not that it hurts us but i hope stevie or whoever will be the GM building up this roster, doesn't make those same mistakes.

 

[Hammettf2b]

I'm probably in the minority, but I'd rather not pay EK $12M+ in '19 on a 7 year deal. He hasn't been the same player defensively since the broken ankle & that could really backfire. He's probably above average defensively now & could get worse with age & or another injury. Teams would target the ankle also. Can you imagine $12M+ on LTIR??... We already have Franzen & Z eating all $8M LTIR, with $2.05M leftover for the next 2 seasons, til Franzen comes off.

As badly as we need a #1, and the boost to our offense & PP would be immeasurable, I'd rather have 2 Roman Josi types. or 1 Pietrangelo & 1 Ellis or a Drew Doughty. I think Cholo & Hronek will be our #3a & #3b, with DDK #4, but playing on top line with a strong #1/#2.

And where exactly are we going to get these 2 Roman Josi types or 1 Pietrangelo & 1 Ellis or a Drew Doughty??? If your team has been in need of a EK type defensemen since Lids retired and he becomes available, im sorry, but I'm in the opinion that you take the shot on trying to sign him. Elite defensemen don't grow on trees. I say you pitch harder than we did for Suter.

 

[Invictus12]

Cap hell isn't built in one offseason. Detroit will have to sign 6-7 roster players next season, if they spend near the cap (each player averaging 4.2 million or one EK and 6 players at 3 million) they will start to have problems if Mantha, AA, and/or Bert emerge as major players.

With that mentality, you can never sign a star player because he might make it problematic to sign someone else in 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 years down the line. Even if to take your concern here seriously, we have more contracts coming off books that year as well. And the next year and the next. The cap limits you on how much star power you can possibly get but you should always embrace getting of the best players in the league when you have the chance.

 

[Pavels Dog]

With that mentality, you can never sign a star player because he might make it problematic to sign someone else in 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 years down the line. Even if to take your concern here seriously, we have more contracts coming off books that year as well. And the next year and the next. The cap limits you on how much star power you can possibly get but you should always embrace getting of the best players in the league when you have the chance.

It ain't like his concern is even realistic. Between this year and next, we probably have around 6-7 players on ELC making the team.