Eichel

LoneFunyan

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Nov 11, 2015
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I'd certainly kick the tires more on part 4, but on the surface it looks like a lot of stuff that is only a topic because he plays for the Sabres.

I don't disagree - any argument that he's not driven or whatever is at best speculative. But it's a thing, and at this point in the evolution of the CBJ, it's a particular thing I pay attention to because, for whatever reason, we seem to find those possessing those character traits, or bring them out. I'm not sayin Eichel is any of those things - I've barely watched him play - but it's a concern. And when added to all the other real concerns, it's...a real concern.

If it were any three of those issues (esp if the injury wasn't of the "you kinda need an artificial neck" variety), I'd probably be on board, but taken all together, it's a lot of risk, and I'm not sure I think he's worth that level of risk.
 

Fjordy

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Jun 20, 2018
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I don't disagree - any argument that he's not driven or whatever is at best speculative. But it's a thing, and at this point in the evolution of the CBJ, it's a particular thing I pay attention to because, for whatever reason, we seem to find those possessing those character traits, or bring them out. I'm not sayin Eichel is any of those things - I've barely watched him play - but it's a concern. And when added to all the other real concerns, it's...a real concern.

If it were any three of those issues (esp if the injury wasn't of the "you kinda need an artificial neck" variety), I'd probably be on board, but taken all together, it's a lot of risk, and I'm not sure I think he's worth that level of risk.
I'm not sure if he needs an artificial neck, this interview could just be pressure on the organization to be traded as soon as possible. The teams doctors (it seems there were still doctors Bills, and they have a good reputation) said that he needed conservative treatment without surgery, then Eichel went to Colorado for a second opinion, there he was also told that you do not need surgery and conservative treatment is better. Jack is just tired of everything in this organization and he wants to leave. He's not a leader, but he's not a bad guy either, and he's still a great player.
 

LoneFunyan

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Nov 11, 2015
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How about the fact that we suck with what we have? Does that suggest an need for a big trade? Jones will not commit his future here if all we offer is minor chair shuffling on the deck of the Titanic or hopes, such as you embrace, that non productive player will suddenly change their stripes and become super productive NHL'ers. Not to rely on the old Chestnut, but "hope is not a strategy".

You can argue Eichel is precisely what the doctor ordered for this team, and I won't disagree. He's a very good player and, positionally and statistically at least, he'd be a huge addition to the team.

What's inarguable is that he'd be expensive to acquire, expensive to retain and has a very troubling injury situation. Add on any concerns about his attitude, team orientation, willingness to play for a rebuilding/retooling team, which are all nebulous and impossible to provide one way or another. Taken together, that's heavy baggage.
 

LoneFunyan

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Nov 11, 2015
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I'm not sure if he needs an artificial neck, this interview could just be pressure on the organization to be traded as soon as possible. The teams doctors (it seems there were still doctors Bills, and they have a good reputation) said that he needed conservative treatment without surgery, then Eichel went to Colorado for a second opinion, there he was also told that you do not need surgery and conservative treatment is better. Jack is just tired of everything in this organization and he wants to leave. He's not a leader, but he's not a bad guy either, and he's still a great player.

If he gets an artificial neck, I think he should go all the way and get like, a transplanted one from a giraffe. Then we can all talk about how he's got fantastic on-ice vision.
 

LetsGOJackets!!

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Mar 23, 2004
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I have been a fan of Eichel since he entered the league. PPG Centres can change the dynamics of teams. He can possess the puck, and is a dynamic playmaker and scorer. This injury is a pretty big concern - given the seriousness and the cost.. there are other players to consider. We missed on Sam Bennett and Zito has to be loving it.
 

Long Live Lyle

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Feb 10, 2019
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Chicago, IL
Eichel's return is not going to be near what some people here are thinking it will be. Likely will be in a similar ballpark to the Nash deal (probably slightly more, due to Eichel being a few years younger and being a center, although the injury question and all the cap problems many teams are going to have might swing the pendulum back a bit).

But Jones, a top-5 pick and Texier? No, he's not going to return that (or the equivalent from another team). He's a great player, but a disgruntled one whose team has never won anything and has (for all intents and purposes) a public trade request and a questionable injury situation.
 

majormajor

Registered User
Jun 23, 2018
24,179
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Was Bennett available in January? A lot of revisionist history.

Yes he was. Certainly by February, this was covered by Sportsnet and TSN. Bennett's trade request went public and the Flames were reportedly trying to move him, and didn't have much luck finding suitors because of his poor scoring and high salary.
 
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Nanabijou

Booooooooooone
Dec 22, 2009
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Columbus, Ohio
If Jones isn't going to sign in Columbus, there's virtually no chance that he'd sign in Buffalo. There's no way a trade for Eichel involving Jones makes sense for either side.

The whole neck injury thing has made me a lot more nervous about Eichel than I was even a month ago.
 

cslebn

80 forever
Feb 15, 2012
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Revisiting the idea of quantity for quality.

Lindros was traded for:
  • An offensive D
  • Middle 6 forward
  • A first round prospect in development
  • A former first that wasn't an NHL regular in his first 6 season post draft
  • A prospect about to break into the NHL but middle 6 at best (so a B)
  • An average goalie
  • 2 1sts
  • Cash
Lindros was disgruntled like Eichel. But there wasn't injury history yet. I'd also say cap weighs against Eichel like the injuries but there would be a lot of cap moving out. The reduced flexibility hurts though.

The other trade is the Nash trade which I'd say comes to:
  • 2A C
  • 2B C
  • B prospect
  • 1st
Clearly Eichel is worth more than Nash but I don't this he's quite worth a lindros haul. To me, Werenski is more valuable than Duchense. Nyquist or Jenner might be close to Ricci. Foudy or Robinson is your Chris Simon. One of the Russians is Forsberg (I doubt they end up there but he'd been a huge reach at 6, was a trail endof the first high 2nd prospect that played 2 more years after the trade in Europe). Korpi is hextall.

If I were buffalo I'd probably chase a young D and Tex or Bem if they can't get Zach. So you end up with something like:

Tex + Jenner + Korpi + Lethonen/Kukan/Peeke + Marchenko + 1st + 1st + '22 1st? and then buffalo fans will still want more.

Not sure I give all that up with the injury risk. Not sure I don't.
 

EspenK

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Sep 25, 2011
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If I were buffalo I'd probably chase a young D and Tex or Bem if they can't get Zach. So you end up with something like:

Tex + Jenner + Korpi + Lethonen/Kukan/Peeke + Marchenko + 1st + 1st + '22 1st? and then buffalo fans will still want more.

Not sure I give all that up with the injury risk. Not sure I don't.

I was ok with your proposal(guess) until you added Marchenko & 3 firsts.. In my mind that's 4 1sts because I think Marchenko should have gone in rd 1. Take out him & next year's 1 and add something/someone else and I'm ok. But I doubt Buffalo can't get a better deal elsewhere.
 

VT

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Jan 24, 2021
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Revisiting the idea of quantity for quality.

Lindros was traded for:
  • An offensive D
  • Middle 6 forward
  • A first round prospect in development
  • A former first that wasn't an NHL regular in his first 6 season post draft
  • A prospect about to break into the NHL but middle 6 at best (so a B)
  • An average goalie
  • 2 1sts
  • Cash
Lindros was disgruntled like Eichel. But there wasn't injury history yet. I'd also say cap weighs against Eichel like the injuries but there would be a lot of cap moving out. The reduced flexibility hurts though.

The other trade is the Nash trade which I'd say comes to:
  • 2A C
  • 2B C
  • B prospect
  • 1st
Clearly Eichel is worth more than Nash but I don't this he's quite worth a lindros haul. To me, Werenski is more valuable than Duchense. Nyquist or Jenner might be close to Ricci. Foudy or Robinson is your Chris Simon. One of the Russians is Forsberg (I doubt they end up there but he'd been a huge reach at 6, was a trail endof the first high 2nd prospect that played 2 more years after the trade in Europe). Korpi is hextall.

If I were buffalo I'd probably chase a young D and Tex or Bem if they can't get Zach. So you end up with something like:

Tex + Jenner + Korpi + Lethonen/Kukan/Peeke + Marchenko + 1st + 1st + '22 1st? and then buffalo fans will still want more.

Not sure I give all that up with the injury risk. Not sure I don't.

Eichel isn`t worth it. Let Bufallo find another fool who can trade him for similar package.
 
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Long Live Lyle

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Feb 10, 2019
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Chicago, IL
Revisiting the idea of quantity for quality.

Lindros was traded for:
  • An offensive D
  • Middle 6 forward
  • A first round prospect in development
  • A former first that wasn't an NHL regular in his first 6 season post draft
  • A prospect about to break into the NHL but middle 6 at best (so a B)
  • An average goalie
  • 2 1sts
  • Cash
Lindros was disgruntled like Eichel. But there wasn't injury history yet. I'd also say cap weighs against Eichel like the injuries but there would be a lot of cap moving out. The reduced flexibility hurts though.

The other trade is the Nash trade which I'd say comes to:
  • 2A C
  • 2B C
  • B prospect
  • 1st
Clearly Eichel is worth more than Nash but I don't this he's quite worth a lindros haul. To me, Werenski is more valuable than Duchense. Nyquist or Jenner might be close to Ricci. Foudy or Robinson is your Chris Simon. One of the Russians is Forsberg (I doubt they end up there but he'd been a huge reach at 6, was a trail endof the first high 2nd prospect that played 2 more years after the trade in Europe). Korpi is hextall.

If I were buffalo I'd probably chase a young D and Tex or Bem if they can't get Zach. So you end up with something like:

Tex + Jenner + Korpi + Lethonen/Kukan/Peeke + Marchenko + 1st + 1st + '22 1st? and then buffalo fans will still want more.

Not sure I give all that up with the injury risk. Not sure I don't.

I don’t think the Lindros trade is a good comparable for multiple reasons. I think the Nash one is, as well as the Duchene to Ottawa (and you have to ignore that they got Makar out of it; that was a fluke, it was simply a (presumably late) 1st round pick). I think both of those result in a similar trade to your proposal, but still a bit too much quantity on our end, maybe take away two of the first round picks, and still leave in our 2022 first and Buffalo can hope it turns into Makar (and we hope we make it back to the playoffs).
 

cslebn

80 forever
Feb 15, 2012
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I was ok with your proposal(guess) until you added Marchenko & 3 firsts.. In my mind that's 4 1sts because I think Marchenko should have gone in rd 1. Take out him & next year's 1 and add something/someone else and I'm ok. But I doubt Buffalo can't get a better deal elsewhere.

I'd love to take our Marchenko and a 1st. But ask would you trade Eichel of you were trying that?
 

EspenK

Registered User
Sep 25, 2011
15,581
4,147
I'd love to take our Marchenko and a 1st. But ask would you trade Eichel of you were trying that?

In a vacuum, no. But he is pissed off in Buffalo so I think and he is injured so I think the get will be less than if it just came out of the blue & he was healthy.
 

LazyCircuits

Registered User
Dec 14, 2019
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285
Europia
Would Buffalo take Marchenko, Korpi, our first and Toronto‘s first?

Actually, I did wonder if it would be a good move to try and get Ristolainen and Reinhardt instead.
 

LoneFunyan

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Nov 11, 2015
483
598
Tex + Jenner + Korpi + Lethonen/Kukan/Peeke + Marchenko + 1st + 1st + '22 1st?

Good Lord - I don't know if that's realistic as an expectation or not, but I can say for sure there's no way I'd give that much for the level of uncertainty he brings. We'd basically be at the stage where we thought Eichel was "the missing piece" because with all those assets going the other way, the team is basically what we saw this year + Eichel and little help coming in the near future.

I don't know if Eichel's considered anywhere in the ballpark of Lindros though - regardless of how well he lived up to expectations and how long he met them, Lindros at the time was all massive upside potential and drool-inducing physical qualities (esp for the era in which he played). I don't think Eichel's that shiny.
 

VT

Registered User
Jan 24, 2021
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No team with similar trades and politic won SC or was success. And never be. Your Eichel isn't leader as Nash was. Besides Rick can play not only in PP but in PK too simply he was a versatile player who could even fight for his teammate.
And give Bufallo part of our future for Eichel who still has had enough bad injury would be stupidity. Plus his terrible salary... . Toronto did similar politic. Look at their history. I hope Jarmo never do it.
 

cslebn

80 forever
Feb 15, 2012
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Good Lord - I don't know if that's realistic as an expectation or not, but I can say for sure there's no way I'd give that much for the level of uncertainty he brings. We'd basically be at the stage where we thought Eichel was "the missing piece" because with all those assets going the other way, the team is basically what we saw this year + Eichel and little help coming in the near future.

I don't know if Eichel's considered anywhere in the ballpark of Lindros though - regardless of how well he lived up to expectations and how long he met them, Lindros at the time was all massive upside potential and drool-inducing physical qualities (esp for the era in which he played). I don't think Eichel's that shiny.

I agree. Lindros was all potential. You could argue that Eichel has more value since he's proven he can be better than ppg.

Then you could argue the injuries devalue him.

Then you could argue the cap hit isn't worth the depth cost.

Then you could debate that a package like that largely leaves the roster intact and is mostly spare parts.

I was trying to set expectations based on comparables. There probably is an extra first or other piece there, especially with the injuries.

I think based on team structure you have to find a way to include Domi and keep Tex but I doubt buffalo would ever do that. This is also a trade you make of you think this helps right the ship to compete in the next 5 years (note I'm not sure we should trade for Eichel I'm just playing with scenarios).

If we did something like this you'd have (not in order):
Laine - Eichel - Nyquist
Robinson/Foudy - Roslovic - Bemmstrom
Bjorkstrand - Domi - Atkinson

Werenski - Jones
Gavrikov - RD
LD - RD

With the D depending on the trade. That's not an awful lineup and if they mesh could be effective with the right system.
 

VT

Registered User
Jan 24, 2021
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Slovakia
I agree. Lindros was all potential. You could argue that Eichel has more value since he's proven he can be better than ppg.

Then you could argue the injuries devalue him.

Then you could argue the cap hit isn't worth the depth cost.

Then you could debate that a package like that largely leaves the roster intact and is mostly spare parts.

I was trying to set expectations based on comparables. There probably is an extra first or other piece there, especially with the injuries.

I think based on team structure you have to find a way to include Domi and keep Tex but I doubt buffalo would ever do that. This is also a trade you make of you think this helps right the ship to compete in the next 5 years (note I'm not sure we should trade for Eichel I'm just playing with scenarios).

If we did something like this you'd have (not in order):
Laine - Eichel - Nyquist
Robinson/Foudy - Roslovic - Bemmstrom
Bjorkstrand - Domi - Atkinson

Werenski - Jones
Gavrikov - RD
LD - RD

With the D depending on the trade. That's not an awful lineup and if they mesh could be effective with the right system.
Great idea, move Bjork who was our the best player two season to Domi and Atkinson, and Laine to Eichel together with Nyquist. I think the locker room would be "very happy" especially its leaders. :thumbu: If Eichel, but I hope not, so only Bjork to him.
 

cslebn

80 forever
Feb 15, 2012
2,695
1,250
Great idea, move Bjork who was our the best player two season to Domi and Atkinson, and Laine to Eichel together with Nyquist. I think the locker room would be "very happy" especially its leaders. :thumbu: If Eichel, but I hope not, so only Bjork to him.

I'd rather stick someone else with Eichel and Laine. You went that line to tilt the ice and Eichel can drive that if healthy. Nyquist is a responsible and calming presence.

Maybe I've missed the fact that Domi, Bjork and cam were effective together. Bjork can play with anyone but I'd feel he's somewhat wasted with Eichel and Laine.
 

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