Euro Hockey Tour: EHT 2020-2021 • Karjala Cup • Nov. 2-8 [CZE/FIN/RUS/SWE]

[Albatros]

Asymmetrical? What's next? The average age of teams will have to match before the game?

Sending a young team is one thing, explicitly sending the WJC team another.

 

[Flynn84]

Russian ice time

Not sure why is he thinking that Russia's blueline will be very bad. It's good enough. I actually like this year selection. Russia also have Knyazev, Nikishin. Maybe Kuznetsov could help, but he's not playing yet

 

[Tenkkapoo]

Jalonen said his team would've lost to the Finnish U-20 team the way they played today.

I think he said that his team could have lost to the Finnish U20 team, not "would"...

 

[lilidk]

On ice they lost because they played like shit against a team that played well. But by sending the WJC team the Russians willingly created a situation in which their opponents were left in an unfairly asymmetrical situation with no good outcome possible.

Can you say same about 1980 USA team?

 

[Czechboy]

Sending a young team is one thing, explicitly sending the WJC team another.

I think Lukas Parik is starting against Russia... this is an awesome idea as he'll probably be our starter at the WJHC so he'll get to see what they look like.

 

[lilidk]

Both Sweden and Finland was not ready to play hockey. I think Russia got lucky little bit, don't think this will continue

 

[Albatros]

Can you say same about 1980 USA team?

No, it was a regular Olympic team. Of course the North American teams were quite young at the time with average age around 23 because of the amateur rules and the NCAA -> Team USA -> NHL career path. If anyone was abusing the rules at the time it was the Soviets and their professional "amateurs".

 

[lilidk]

No, it was a regular Olympic team. Of course the North American teams were quite young at the time with average age around 23 because of the amateur rules and the NCAA -> Team USA -> NHL career path. If anyone was abusing the rules at the time it was the Soviets and their professional "amateurs".

So you just blame Russians for everything .
any way i d rathe see potential stars than bunch of no names pro. Wish I can see Raymond and Holtz , Lundell

 

[Albatros]

So you just blame Russians for everything .
any way i d rathe see potential stars than bunch of no names pro. Wish I can see Raymond and Holtz , Lundell

No, I blame them for disrespecting their opponents by sending their WJC team to men's tournament. I suspect the Russians themselves would categorically refuse to play against Team Canada's WJC team.

 

[barriers]

No, I blame them for disrespecting their opponents by sending their WJC team to men's tournament. I suspect the Russians themselves would categorically refuse to play against Team Canada's WJC team.

I think they'd likely focus on beating them.

 

[Albatros]

I think they'd likely focus on beating them.

And then what? They won a junior team. Anything they do in that game is either neutral or counts against them. No one wants to be in that position and forcing others to be is just poor sportsmanship.

 

[vorky]

I really liked the way Russia U20 played in this game against Finland. It reminded me of the old Soviet style of hockey of the 1980s. I read from somewhere that Larionov made these boys watch some old Soviet games from the 1980s and tries to teach them to play this style of hockey.

Yes, they watch old games but it is not coming from Larionov. It is a policy by the Russian hockey federation/Roman Rotenberg (reviving the Red Machine). All development programme is about it.

 

[Atas2000]

Sending a young team is one thing, explicitly sending the WJC team another.

A WJC team is a senior team by design. They are all at least 18. There is no way in hell you can make us believe it is somehow inappropriate for all players to be young.

In the same manner we could start the whine about other teams not picking KHL players(who happen to be be the better choice mostly). What of it? Every nation sends the team they see fit given the circumstances.

 

[barriers]

And then what? They won a junior team. Anything they do in that game is either neutral or counts against them. No one wants to be in that position and forcing others to be is just poor sportsmanship.

And then you focus on the next game.

 

[Albatros]

A WJC team is a senior team by design. They are all at least 18. There is no way in hell you can make us believe it is somehow inappropriate for all players to be young.

It's absolutely not inappropriate for players to be young. What is inappropriate is to send an explicit junior team to a men's tournament like the Russians did here. But Russia's conduct in international hockey has never been characterized by respect so it doesn't come as a surprise.

 

[Albatros]

What is an "explicit junior team"? Define.

Before the tournament the Russian Ice Hockey Federation explicitly stated that they are sending the U20 national team. When they faced backlash they started to call it the senior team instead, but made no roster or any other changes.

Tretiak on October 23:

"Taking into account all of the current difficulties, the RIHF decided to take a young team to the Karjala Cup. This is a stage of our preparations for the upcoming World Junior Championship. Players of the under 20 national team started to train for this tournament in the summer, when the RIHF organised a development camp for those who play in North America. There was a subsequent competition in Sochi, but then two Four Nations tournaments and the Super Series were cancelled.

Participation in the Karjala Cup will give our team excellent practice of competing at an international competition of a high level, with the young players receiving an important experience of feeling the responsibility of representing the national team ahead of the World Junior Championship."

 

[Atas2000]

Before the tournament the Russian Ice Hockey Federation explicitly stated that they are sending the U20 national team. When they faced backlash they started to call it the senior team instead, but made no roster or any other changes.

Tretiak on October 23:

"Taking into account all of the current difficulties, the RIHF decided to take a young team to the Karjala Cup. This is a stage of our preparations for the upcoming World Junior Championship. Players of the under 20 national team started to train for this tournament in the summer, when the RIHF organised a development camp for those who play in North America. There was a subsequent competition in Sochi, but then two Four Nations tournaments and the Super Series were cancelled.

Participation in the Karjala Cup will give our team excellent practice of competing at an international competition of a high level, with the young players receiving an important experience of feeling the responsibility of representing the national team ahead of the World Junior Championship."

I said define. I did not say tell me what it's called. So again, define. I don't care if it's called the Best Team Ever, or the Whatever Team. No substance in your post, as always. The only substance I see is the russophobia.

 

[Albatros]

The Russian Ice Hockey Federation defined it as the U20 team preparing for the WJC, which is evidently factual. Those are their own words, not mine.

 

[Atas2000]

The Russian Ice Hockey Federation defined it as the U20 team preparing for the WJC, which is evidently factual. Those are their own words, not mine.

Again, define. I don't care what it's called.

Just admit you don't want to admit you are wrong.

 

[theslatcher]

What is an "explicit junior team"? Define.

A team comprised of only junior(aka. U20) players makes it an explicit junior team, no? U20 coaching staff makes it even more explicit, right?

I'm not sure why considering a duck a duck is controversial. Who cares anyway about Karjala?

 

[Albatros]

I'm not sure what part of "the U20 team preparing for the WJC" you don't understand. In fact I don't think that can be misunderstood.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Swedes are better, than Finns were yesterday, and we are worse, than yesterday, so a pretty boring game overall. It's understandable for kids, but Swedes are SHL pros, and not the worst ones.

 

[Tenkkapoo]

Very anemic game so far, Russians look a lot less impressive than against Finland on Thursday. But Sweden is probably a better team than Finland. Both teams have had some good scoring chances. For Russia I have liked Podkolzin, Amirov and Kirsanov. Askarov has also been solid.

 

[Atas2000]

A team comprised of only junior(aka. U20) players makes it an explicit junior team, no?

Define senior team. I did. A senior NT is team with NO age restrction. A 17 year old can play on it. Nowhere it is stated how many players on it should be how old(except for the obvious like a 15 year old would probably be too young indeed). A U20 team IS a senior team then. They are all 18 and older. We are also not talking about language. Language can be misleading. And it's only names, not the substaance of the matter. For example it is only a junior team in English, just like the WJC is a junior championship in English. In Russian only the U18 teams and championships are called "junior". The U20 team is called differently "youth"(also applies to the championships. It's МЧМ vs. ЮЧМ), meaning they are not juniors, but rather young adults by that time, which is not that far out as they are even legally that, right? Again, that's just language intricacies. What matters is, they might be young, they might be the complete squad for the upcoming WJC, but this is completely irrelevant here. They are by all means eligible to be the senior NT. Explicitly. Again, what are the criteria? Age? What age? There is no average age or something requirement. Best team available? Obviously not. Are the finnish, swedish, czech teams the best rosters available? No. They are older. But that's what senior NTs are, different in average age as there is no restriction. You feel like you send a team of 40y.o.? Fine. 19 year olds? Just as good.

U20 coaching staff makes it even more explicit, right?

What? And if Bragin was coaching them, they would be the senior team? Good to know. Next time we just send Bragin along with 14 year olds and it is a senior team. Seriously, if Sweden decided to send ABBA as their coaching staff, I couldn't care less and would not deduct anything from that.

I'm not sure why considering a duck a duck is controversial. Who cares anyway about Karjala?

Apparently a small number of posters here from Finnland and Sweden are very much invested into this tournament as they are quite adamant about their concerns regarding rosters.

 

[Tenkkapoo]

The way Kirsanov skates and handles the puck reminds me of Andrei Markov.