Prospect Info: Eeli Tolvanen

[AintLifeGrand]

Milwaukee has nowhere near the amount of flights going to Nashville as Atlanta, which means transit from the farm to the big club will be completely seamless once Nashville dumps MKE for ATL.

Its time for Nashville to make a statement that they are the team of the Deep South and move the team to Atlanta

Milwaukee would be a great affiliate for the Blue Jackets or Blues

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Milwaukee has nowhere near the amount of flights going to Nashville as Atlanta, which means transit from the farm to the big club will be completely seamless once Nashville dumps MKE for ATL.

Its time for Nashville to make a statement that they are the team of the Deep South and move the team to Atlanta

Milwaukee would be a great affiliate for the Blue Jackets or Blues

What if the Preds are playing in Chicago or Detroit or St. Louis or Minnesota or Arizona?

This entire discussion is just so f***ing stupid and ridiculous.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

What if the Preds are playing in Chicago or Detroit or St. Louis or Minnesota or Arizona?

This entire discussion is just so ****ing stupid and ridiculous.

To piggyback, Milwaukee appears to be closer (or commensurate) to all but about 3 or 4 teams: Team Map/Directory

For many years the Kings farm club was in Manchester, NH (even once Ontario, CA had a rink/team). Proximity to opponents for the AHL squad is a pretty big consideration. When you think of how often players are called up/down relative to how often they are playing other teams, it makes sense.

 

[Legionnaire11]

I think Atlanta makes a ton of sense, but not for the reasons mentioned (development, emergency call-up). It makes more sense from a fan interest and dollars standpoint, being that fans of Nashville would be likely to travel to Atlanta a couple of times each season to watch the farm team play (I know I would) and fans from Atlanta would likely travel to see the parent team play several times a season. I know that a couple of Ads fans will travel once a year, but it's not nearly the same level. It could also increase interest in the areas between the two cities (namely Knoxville and Chattanooga), and most important it would probably significantly increase Preds TV viewership in the Atlanta market.

Louisville, Huntsville and Memphis would also make sense, but Atlanta is obviously the big fish out of those names and has a long history with high level pro hockey.

That said, the relationship with Milwaukee has been really good and I have no issues with that continuing either.

 

[triggrman]

I think Atlanta makes a ton of sense, but not for the reasons mentioned (development, emergency call-up). It makes more sense from a fan interest and dollars standpoint, being that fans of Nashville would be likely to travel to Atlanta a couple of times each season to watch the farm team play (I know I would) and fans from Atlanta would likely travel to see the parent team play several times a season. I know that a couple of Ads fans will travel once a year, but it's not nearly the same level. It could also increase interest in the areas between the two cities (namely Knoxville and Chattanooga), and most important it would probably significantly increase Preds TV viewership in the Atlanta market.

Louisville, Huntsville and Memphis would also make sense, but Atlanta is obviously the big fish out of those names and has a long history with high level pro hockey.

That said, the relationship with Milwaukee has been really good and I have no issues with that continuing either.

Totally agreed.

I think for growing the brand in this region it makes sense, the anti Milwaukee my airport is better than yours stuff, doesn't impact my feelings on this one bit.

 

[Dr Danglefest]

BTW, you want to know why prospects haven't developed in Milwaukee lately? Because Poile has traded away tons of picks this decade. We've had 6 1st round picks. He used one on Watson in 2010, he developed fine for the type of player he was going to be. None in 2011, None in 2012, Seth Jones went straight to the NHL in 2013, Fiala played some in the AHL but was in the NHL full time at age 21, none in 2015, Fabbro went to college then straight to the NHL, Tolvanen is still just 20 and was the second to last pick of the 1st round, no pick in the first 3 (!!!) rounds of 2018 and Tomasino is still in juniors.

There's just not going to be a huge talent pipeline going through the AHL when the majority of your picks are coming in rounds 4-7 and not only does that not lead to a lot of high end prospect talent, it also necessitates signing veteran players to literally fill roles on the team so they aren't playing with a bunch of ECHL (or worse) worthy players.

So to recap this decade:

6 1st round picks - One was never going to be more than a bottom 6 player, one went straight to the NHL from Juniors, one went straight to the NHL from college, one played around 120 games in the AHL over the course of 3 seasons, was in the NHL full time at 21 and was traded, one was drafted a couple years ago, is struggling a little now at 20 years old and another was drafted 6 months ago.

10 2nd round picks - One was a goalie, another is Salomaki who 95% of this board hates but maybe placing the team somewhere else would've turned him into a top 6 forward

Aberg and Sissons came in 2012, so a 50% hit rate in that draft

No 2nd rounder in 2013

2014 was Kamenev, who was used in the Turris trade and Dougherty who was traded to Buffalo, not tendered a contract there and signed in Ottawa. Two talent starved NHL rosters that he couldn't break through but again, surely wouldn't have been the case if the team was in Atlanta.

2015 Trenin was a 2nd round pick who I and a few others who watch the Admirals regularly said should be playing more but again, nothing was stopping Poile, Fenton, Nichol etc. from making that call to the coaching staff that they hired and demanding that he get more time in all situations.

2016 was Girard who played 6 games in the NHL before he was traded for Turris.

2017 was Mismash who's still in college

2018 had no 2nd round pick

2019 is in Juniors

10 3rd round picks

Aronson might have actually been an NHL player at some point but he got pissed that Poile called up a different defenseman, left the Admirals, signed in the KHL and then in the German League.

Vesey - Didn't sign

Leipsic is a bottom 6 spark plug/speed guy

Diaby was terrible and I think he retired a couple years ago.

Kirkland was terrible at everything except shootouts.

Novak and Pitlick just recently signed.

Farrance is still in college

No pick in 2018

Campbell just drafted

Saros and Arvidsson spent significant time in the AHL as 4th rounders, Richard and Carrier I feel still have a chance to be NHL players as 4th rounders and Allard as a 3rd rounder.

Maybe you guys would have a point if some of these players left the organization and lit up the AHL and then got a chance and ran with it at the NHL but this just seems like **** drafting (for the most part) on top of just not having the picks available to actually get prospects in the system and developed.

The story with Tolvanen, whom I am rooting for by the way...feels eerily similar to Fiala’s with the exception of the production at the AHL level as Fiala didn’t have a terrible time producing...but many people thought Fiala should have been brought up much sooner than he was and given a chance to show what he could do with NHL talent given his offensive potency, but management was continuously over cautious and hesitant to pull the trigger and his development stalled as a result (IMO), and when he was brought up initially it was for short stints with limited minutes, not giving him enough rope to show what he had to bring to the table...by the time he got full time meaningful minutes in my opinion the Preds Development team and management had ruined him.

it feels like that’s the direction that is trending towards with Tolvanen which would be a shame

Still quite early though...would be worth changing up their approach with him and giving him a couple weeks in some sort of scoring role on the big club, if he’s not ready it’ll show and he can return to the A to work on areas that can be more accurately identified at the NHL level.

can’t imagine he’d be too much less effective than Smith or Granlund

 

[ijuka]

After his historical KHL season, this guy really fell off a cliff, huh? Thought he was fantastic a full 2 years ago, yet this past u-20s I thought he was terrible, though the competition was much weaker than at KHL. This season, he's performing worse than ever.

I have to wonder what went wrong.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I don't know that NHL teams really take the helicopter approach with their prospects very often. A lot of times it feels more like sink or swim. Which is probably fair enough. But hopefully somebody somewhere in the org is wondering if there's anything they can do to help Tolvanen get going. The only regular in the Ads lineup he's outscoring now is Tinordi? That's alarming. Not much we can do but wait and hope at this point. Calling him up here would be a bit of a slap in the face to Trenin, wouldn't it? It may be that Tolvanen would benefit from coming up to a scoring role here, but it would certainly be pushing things a bit to show him that kind of unmerited preferential treatment.

 

[Armourboy]

At a certain point you gotta do something to give the big club a reason to call you up. Right now there really isn't a reason to call him up, and based on play a guy like Trenin should be getting that call anyways. Fiala's numbers might not have been great, but we had a hole to fill and he was at least showing signs of doing some good things. Now if they have him playing 4th line minutes and no PP time we have a development issue and if I'm Poile I'm picking up the phone and looking for a dang good explanation as to why.

At this point you gotta view the KHL thing as an anomaly, and really it's one that only lasted about half a season. Once teams figured out he was a threat his point production went way down.

 

[ijuka]

At a certain point you gotta do something to give the big club a reason to call you up. Right now there really isn't a reason to call him up, and based on play a guy like Trenin should be getting that call anyways. Fiala's numbers might not have been great, but we had a hole to fill and he was at least showing signs of doing some good things. Now if they have him playing 4th line minutes and no PP time we have a development issue and if I'm Poile I'm picking up the phone and looking for a dang good explanation as to why.

At this point you gotta view the KHL thing as an anomaly, and really it's one that only lasted about half a season. Once teams figured out he was a threat his point production went way down.

Not really an anomaly, because I watched most of those games and it wasn't just some statistical thing, he actually was playing well. And of course, he was a significant member for Finland's Olympic and WHC teams at the age of 19. While they indeed aren't super competitive tournaments in comparison to some, they still are at a relatively high level of play. This season, I'm sure he's nowhere near even making the national team at all.

 

[Armourboy]

Not really an anomaly, because I watched most of those games and it wasn't just some statistical thing, he actually was playing well. And of course, he was a significant member for Finland's Olympic and WHC teams at the age of 19. While they indeed aren't super competitive tournaments in comparison to some, they still are at a relatively high level of play. This season, I'm sure he's nowhere near even making the national team at all.

Right now it looks like an anomaly because he hasn't been anywhere close to it since. You do it for a short period of time and not again, well that's an anomaly.

 

[LCPreds]

Doing so well in the KHL was probably about the worst thing that could have happened to this guy from an expectations perspective.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Doing so well in the KHL was probably about the worst thing that could have happened to this guy from an expectations perspective.

The expectations thing means nothing though. I think at this point we are past that. We understand he had a great 18-year old season, and we are already over that. Maybe casual fans in other cities are still thinking about that, I don't know, but nobody here is. He already reset that expectation counter to zero with a passable-but-not-impressive 19-year old season. Now, starting at zero, his 20-year old season is not going at all well. Our expectations from 2 years ago have nothing whatsoever to do with that observation.

 

[triggrman]

I doubt he plays in the NHL at this point.

 

[Soundgarden]

I doubt he plays in the NHL at this point.

I wouldn't go that far.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I wouldn't go that far.

It's a fair projection based on his current production level, though.

That said, one has to at least hope this is just a slump/hiccup in his progression. 14 games is still a small enough sample that it can be written off for a 20-year old.

But the idea that Tolvanen might jump up and fill a top-6 role on our team, or replace Granlund/Smith next season is definitely not looking good. It seems a lot more likely that we're down to crossing our fingers on a longer term outlook here.

 

[Soundgarden]

It's a fair projection based on his current production level, though.

That said, one has to at least hope this is just a slump/hiccup in his progression. 14 games is still a small enough sample that it can be written off for a 20-year old.

But the idea that Tolvanen might jump up and fill a top-6 role on our team, or replace Granlund/Smith next season is definitely not looking good. It seems a lot more likely that we're down to crossing our fingers on a longer term outlook here.

Yes, he might not replace Smith/Granlund right this moment, but to say he won't make the NHL period might be strong. I mean, in his last shot here he was 1-1-2 in 4, not to put too much emphasis on an even smaller sample size, but I think he can be an NHL player.

 

[triggrman]

We’ll see

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

1 goal on 43 shots is...wow.

 

[TitansVolsPreds615]

Sounds like he's having some awful puck luck so far if his shooting percentage is really that low. The guy has a great shot, I'm sure it's going to be hard for a few more not to go in going forward.

 

[Armourboy]

Gotta wonder how much not making the roster is having a factor. Sometimes not meeting expectations can stagger people a bit.

That said if he doesn't turn it around he's not even gonna be a career AHL guy.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

Tolvanen has scored on the PP tonight (Ads are 3 for 3 on the PP). Got a wrister off with a screen set by Trenin.

 

[adsfan]

Tolvanen has scored on the PP tonight (Ads are 3 for 3 on the PP). Got a wrister off with a screen set by Trenin.

It was beautiful. That puck hit an inch or two inside the far post.

 

[Gh24]

The expectations thing means nothing though.

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but for him it does. He said it himself, he took it for granted that he'd make the opening night roster two years ago. He probably fights or have fought with pressure to live by the expectations.

We could use a left handed shot on the 2nd PP unit, so I hope he cements his place in the lineup next year, even if it was "just" 3rd line.

 

[King Weber]