Prospect Info: Eeli Tolvanen

[OldFan]

I can accept that Davies and Pitlick are new faces that need to be “tried out” in the AHL.
Trenin, though, looked pretty good(better than Salomaki or Gaudreau) and has paid his obligatory AHL dues. But, once again, I defer to the GM and coaches.
But I don’t get Tolvanen.
Looks waiver status and/or salary related roster cuts not talent related.
I really hope they’ve got this worked out mentally with Tolvanen. Otherwise, they’ve put pretty good talent at risk.

 

[101st_fan]

I can accept that Davies and Pitlick are new faces that need to be “tried out” in the AHL.
Trenin, though, looked pretty good(better than Salomaki or Gaudreau) and has paid his obligatory AHL dues. But, once again, I defer to the GM and coaches.
But I don’t get Tolvanen.
Looks waiver status and/or salary related roster cuts not talent related.
I really hope they’ve got this worked out mentally with Tolvanen. Otherwise, they’ve put pretty good talent at risk.

It comes down to who makes the 3rd line. On the wings for the top 9 we're looking at Arvy, Forsberg, Granlund, Smith, and likely Turris which leaves one spot. Jarnkrok and Sissons can both play 3rd line center or wing. That leaves a 4th line of Watson, Bonino, and Player X (a slot where neither Pitlick or Tolvanen fit).

 

[OldFan]

It comes down to who makes the 3rd line. On the wings for the top 9 we're looking at Arvy, Forsberg, Granlund, Smith, and likely Turris which leaves one spot. Jarnkrok and Sissons can both play 3rd line center or wing. That leaves a 4th line of Watson, Bonino, and Player X (a slot where neither Pitlick or Tolvanen fit).

Yes, I know. But that assumes Turris, Bonino and Jarnkrok remain on the team. Are those 3, Gaudreaux and Salomaki going to be on Preds roster?
I’m not disagreeing but sooner or later Preds have to start breaking up that old gang in favor of
younger players. I guess next year.

 

[101st_fan]

Yes, I know. But that assumes Turris, Bonino and Jarnkrok remain on the team. Are those 3, Gaudreaux and Salomaki going to be on Preds roster?
I’m not disagreeing but sooner or later Preds have to start breaking up that old gang in favor of
younger players. I guess next year.

Gaudreau, Salomaki and Bonino are likely headed for either the 4th line or permascratch roles ... making their inclusion in a discussion of Tolvanen's future absolutely a moot point. Jarnkrok can play up and down the roster at wing and center ... he's not going anywhere before opening day. Worst case, he's the 3rd center or filling one of the 4th line slots. That leaves Turris who in an injury plagued and well off of normal numbers seasons put up .418 points per game and 4 PPG (T-2nd on the club). Again, not going anywhere before opening day.

 

[herzausstein]

Yes, I know. But that assumes Turris, Bonino and Jarnkrok remain on the team. Are those 3, Gaudreaux and Salomaki going to be on Preds roster?
I’m not disagreeing but sooner or later Preds have to start breaking up that old gang in favor of
younger players. I guess next year.

I'm assuming if Turris doesn't work out on wing or if Granlund doesn't get going then Tolvanen will be back. He really needs to be in the top 6 to be effective.

 

[Armourboy]

It's called depth, and we will need it over the course of the season. Someone will get hurt

 

[Predsanddead24]

It's called depth, and we will need it over the course of the season. Someone will get hurt

Or if last year is any indication everyone will get hurt.

 

[Legionnaire11]

I wonder how some of our fans would react if they were in Vegas with Cody Glass coming up.

Glass is seen universally as a rising star, but hasn't played a single NHL game. Tolvanen on the other hand, went on a hot streak for a few months in the KHL, and because he isn't already a first line NHLer scoring 40 then he's on the verge of being a bust.

Those 19 goals or whatever it was is the worst thing that ever happened to Tolvanen. Had he just come along slowly as expected, Poile would have likely left him with Jokerit for another season and then this year he'd be coming over to the AHL with reasonable expectations of getting acclimated.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I wonder how some of our fans would react if they were in Vegas with Cody Glass coming up.

Glass is seen universally as a rising star, but hasn't played a single NHL game. Tolvanen on the other hand, went on a hot streak for a few months in the KHL, and because he isn't already a first line NHLer scoring 40 then he's on the verge of being a bust.

Those 19 goals or whatever it was is the worst thing that ever happened to Tolvanen. Had he just come along slowly as expected, Poile would have likely left him with Jokerit for another season and then this year he'd be coming over to the AHL with reasonable expectations of getting acclimated.

I don't think unrealistic expectations from some short-sighted folks really should factor into anything at all. It has no bearing whatsoever on what Tolvanen has accomplished or what he should have done. I'd say it's fantastic that he had that great KHL season. I'm glad he did. He also kicked it at the WJC and WC that year too, also very impressive. AND I'm glad he came over last season and started working on rounding out his game in Milwaukee and adapting to the NA style. It's all good all around, regardless what some random fans say on the internet.

- Signed, random fan on the internet!

 

[Legionnaire11]

I don't think unrealistic expectations from some short-sighted folks really should factor into anything at all. It has no bearing whatsoever on what Tolvanen has accomplished or what he should have done. I'd say it's fantastic that he had that great KHL season. I'm glad he did. He also kicked it at the WJC and WC that year too, also very impressive. AND I'm glad he came over last season and started working on rounding out his game in Milwaukee and adapting to the NA style. It's all good all around, regardless what some random fans say on the internet.

- Signed, random fan on the internet!

I agree it shouldn't matter, I guess it matters most to those of us on internet message boards who have to (or feel the need to anyway) constantly respond to nonsense posts about him like the trade boards post yesterday about how Tolvanen is close to demanding a trade because he was cut from camp.

Although there are real world implications as well. Poile bought into the hype as evidence by his quotes that season and the fact that he worked hard to, and ultimately did, bring Tolvanen over at the end of the KHL season. And that was despite the fact that Tolvanen had been pretty mediocre for a couple of months after the hot start.

I just think it can't be said enough, Tolvanen is exactly what we thought he was on draft day and he just happened to have a crazy hot streak to start out with Jokerit. But this is a kid who was originally expected to go to BC where we would have barely even started talking about him until this coming season, and when that didn't pan out he signed a two year deal with Jokerit which would have only brought him to NA this coming season at the earliest. He was also billed as "Good shot, needs to work on skating and strength", which is exactly what he has turned out to be.

It's not his fault that everyone jumped the gun (fans, coaches, media) but it's kind of tiresome that as easily as expectations were swayed initially, that most people have been unwilling to swing expectations back the other way. Maybe it's just me spending too much time on HF though.

 

[Jonesey]

8) Claims of Insider Information/ Rumors & Hearsay: If you're an insider, contact us with proof BEFORE you post. These posts will be allowed/rejected at the discretion of administrators after consulting with other posters, moderators, and relevant sources. Deference will be given to veteran members who have established credibility. It's not acceptable to post that you heard someone has a drinking/drug/sex/personal problem from a "good" source. Do not post information that can be considered defamatory without a link to a credible media source. Other forums, personal websites, amateur/unvetted blogs, hearsay, and personal testimonials are not considered credible

 

[FilthyScoresberg]

8) Claims of Insider Information/ Rumors & Hearsay: If you're an insider, contact us with proof BEFORE you post. These posts will be allowed/rejected at the discretion of administrators after consulting with other posters, moderators, and relevant sources. Deference will be given to veteran members who have established credibility. It's not acceptable to post that you heard someone has a drinking/drug/sex/personal problem from a "good" source. Do not post information that can be considered defamatory without a link to a credible media source. Other forums, personal websites, amateur/unvetted blogs, hearsay, and personal testimonials are not considered credible

So I’m not allowed to post something I heard without approval?

 

[Jonesey]

So I’m not allowed to post something I heard without approval?

According to site rules, no. It's considered hearsay unless it comes from a credible source.

 

[NORiculous]

According to site rules, no. It's considered hearsay unless it comes from a credible source.

There should be a tag for hearsay.

 

[101st_fan]

According to site rules, no. It's considered hearsay unless it comes from a credible source.

Yet we can discuss things sourced by Eklund.

 

[Jonesey]

Yet we can discuss things sourced by Eklund.

I don’t make the rules unfortunately.

 

[101st_fan]

I don’t make the rules unfortunately.

The problem is that a rule that forbids innuendo, hearsay, and rumor would eliminate a huge chunk of HF if it were ever strictly enforced. Even sources such as McKenzie and LeBrun peddle rumors when it comes to trade deadline and FA time ... it's part of sports. Subjective rules lend themselves to questioning. (e4)

 

[PredsHead]

Is it tine to do something with Tolvanen? Not saying its time to trade him, but it does not appear he is a good fit for either Milwaukee or the AHL in general. I would rather see him have some success somewhere in Europe rather than continuing to struggle and ruin his confidence in Milwaukee. Would he learn more from the press box in Nashville than he would playing in Milwaukee? If Milwaukee is not working for him, at what point do you start looking at other options for his development?

 

[Huge Legwand]

IMO, keep him where he's at. Did you guys forget the SCF's. Most of our top 6 got decimated. Depth isn't a bad thing and the kid needs time.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Is it tine to do something with Tolvanen? Not saying its time to trade him, but it does not appear he is a good fit for either Milwaukee or the AHL in general. I would rather see him have some success somewhere in Europe rather than continuing to struggle and ruin his confidence in Milwaukee. Would he learn more from the press box in Nashville than he would playing in Milwaukee? If Milwaukee is not working for him, at what point do you start looking at other options for his development?

I'm not watching him play, but the reports and stats so far have reached the stage of "worrisome".

Somewhere in this thread I was actually optimistic that he'd go down and tear things up there and then around November we might be in a position to consider a permanent recall. That has not remotely come to fruition. He is basically Granlunding it down there. 12th leading scorer amongst our AHL forwards is not good. Granted, there's not a lot of scoring going on and 1 big game could vault him several spots. But still 12th right now.

I don't suppose we can do anything much except "worry" at this point. Our development staff must be watching and have some sense of where he's at, mentally and physically, on and off the ice, all the necessary information that we don't have. But I think we're well within our rights now to be concerned and wonder if there's something that can be done to get him back on track.

 

[101st_fan]

Tolvanen had 4 g, 8 a through New Year's last season then finished with 15g, 20a for the season. He's behind on assists, on his goal pace compared to last season. At this point he is still one good game from reaching the team lead in assists, a Bonino like week away from topping the team in goals. While another slow statistical start is concerning, he is really on the projected timeline with a demonstrated history of performance at the AHL level. I'm more concerned with the overall offensive output in Milwaukee.

 

[PredsHead]

Tolvanen had 4 g, 8 a through New Year's last season then finished with 15g, 20a for the season. He's behind on assists, on his goal pace compared to last season. At this point he is still one good game from reaching the team lead in assists, a Bonino like week away from topping the team in goals. While another slow statistical start is concerning, he is really on the projected timeline with a demonstrated history of performance at the AHL level. I'm more concerned with the overall offensive output in Milwaukee.

While I agree it is probably a bit early to do something, the lack of progression is what is concerning me. He looked to be playing better towards the end of last year, but instead of carrying that into this year he seems to be falling back into what he did to start last season. The rest of the offense in Milwaukee seems to be waking up, hopefully he will go on a tear soon. He is shooting like 2%, so one could argue he is "due" for a few goals.

IMO, keep him where he's at. Did you guys forget the SCF's. Most of our top 6 got decimated. Depth isn't a bad thing and the kid needs time.

We've already had two injuries to the top 6 this year and he wasn't called up, Trenin, Pitlick and Carr are easily out playing him at this point and would brought up before him.

 

[glenngineer]

He is not going to be the dominant forward or even sniper we're hoping he can be. If he hasn't developed at that level in the AHL at this time, it's not going to happen.

 

[Legionnaire11]

There are 14 players from the 2017 first round that have played as many or fewer NHL games. 18 players with less than 20 games played. The big difference is that those players didn't have a hot streak in the KHL right after the draft, had that not happened for Tolvanen, we'd just be patiently waiting for him as mostly as afterthought rather than being disappointed that he isn't an elite NHL sniper yet. Drafts just can't be judged until about the 5 year mark, giving Tolvanen 3 more years to actually wear the bust label.

Tolvanen is not behind in development, sure he's not producing offensively, but that seems to be more of a Milwaukee/AHL thing. I think Poile has made a mistake in putting Tolvanen there, I just don't think the AHL for the most part is a developmental league anymore. Leave kids in junior, college or europe to grow and learn, use the AHL to stash depth role players and hope for some late bloomers.

He will still be a player, it seems like he's got good tools. But it may end up as a two-way 3rd liner who can skate up the lines at times. But idk, outside of Arvidsson, we've just never developed impact forwards in Milwaukee unless you want to count Forsberg's half season.

Hopefully we're all pleasantly surprised, there's still a lot of hockey left this season and Tolvanen has proven to be a very streaky player.

 

[Soundgarden]

On the one hand he can't even drink legally yet, it's way too soon to declare him a bust, on the other I wouldn't be opposed to trading him in a Brannstrom-Stone type deal at the deadline for the right player(s).

A Taylor Hall type player in the place of Granlund/Smith if we're buying and going all in again.

I just hope he either pans out or we trade him for value before he busts. It seems like we never just catch a break with offensive leaning forwards.