Prospect Info: Eeli Tolvanen

cynicalcitizen

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If you’re relying on fourth liners to score goals you’re going to be disappointed no matter what team you watch. But salomaki will draw penalties so our actual goal scorers can get a power play to score some. Which we were awful at last season anyways. That is no fault of salomaki though as he does not see power play time.
Why would teams commit a penalty at an increased rate against a guy that is not a threat to score? Just curious.
 

cynicalcitizen

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He’s a pest. That’s what pests do. This is fairly common knowledge I would think
Which you would think the other teams would understand and even have mentioned to them in a scouting report. It would seem easy to avoid him for an opposing team. Now a pest that is a scoring threat is another story, but I can't see how a non-scoring, non-game influencing pest is effective over any extended period of time.
 

maplepred

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Which you would think the other teams would understand and even have mentioned to them in a scouting report. It would seem easy to avoid him for an opposing team. Now a pest that is a scoring threat is another story, but I can't see how a non-scoring, non-game influencing pest is effective over any extended period of time.

Tootoo didn’t score much and he drew a lot of penalties as well. I’m not saying salomaki is sole top notch fourth liner. I’m just saying he does what’s expected of him from the coaching staff or he wouldn’t have been around as long as he has.

I would much rather his hard nosed annoying type on fourth line as opposed to Frederick Gaudreau who does nothing at all.
 
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cynicalcitizen

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Tootoo didn’t score much and he drew a lot of penalties as well. I’m not saying salomaki is sole top notch fourth liner. I’m just saying he does what’s expected of him from the coaching staff or he wouldn’t have been around as long as he has.

I would much rather his hard nosed annoying type on fourth line as opposed to Frederick Gaudreau who does nothing at all.
I tend to agree, but I'd probably prefer some net front presence overachievers and penalty killing monsters tucked away on the fourth line.
 

Legionnaire11

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Tootoo didn’t score much and he drew a lot of penalties as well. I’m not saying salomaki is sole top notch fourth liner. I’m just saying he does what’s expected of him from the coaching staff or he wouldn’t have been around as long as he has.

I would much rather his hard nosed annoying type on fourth line as opposed to Frederick Gaudreau who does nothing at all.

Tootoo was twice the hockey player Salomaki is on skill alone and was among the very best in the league at his role as pest and penalty drawing, plus he was a vicious hitter and willing fighter. Salomaki is at best average at drawing penalties and brings absolutely no scoring ability.

I really like Salomaki, but we could find dozens of AHL level players to fill his role at least as well. His kind worked two decades ago when the 4th line was playing 5 mins a night. Now they need to be able to go 10+ and contribute in multiple areas of the game.

As for the reason he's been around so long. It's because he makes next to nothing and was an RFA up until now. After the coming season he's going to be a UFA and that will be it for his run here. He filled his role, but he'll be replaced by someone younger who can do at least what Salomaki does, but still has potential to become more like maybe Zach Magwood.
 
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triggrman

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Tootoo didn’t score much and he drew a lot of penalties as well. I’m not saying salomaki is sole top notch fourth liner. I’m just saying he does what’s expected of him from the coaching staff or he wouldn’t have been around as long as he has.

I would much rather his hard nosed annoying type on fourth line as opposed to Frederick Gaudreau who does nothing at all.
I’d rather actual NHL players Freddy and Salomaki aren’t. Neither have room on this team
 
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Kaako Kappo

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Despite enormous expectations, Eeli Tolvanen hasn't stuck in...

The most interesting part is this:

There’s one new aspect of Tolvanen’s training this summer as well: a personal skating coach.

“It’s good to work on skating because it’s such a big part of the game these days,” Tolvanen said. “The skating coach should help me a lot. Every bit of help you can get, you should take. My skating has to be on the top level if you want to play in this game.”
 

adsfan

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Despite enormous expectations, Eeli Tolvanen hasn't stuck in...

The most interesting part is this:

There’s one new aspect of Tolvanen’s training this summer as well: a personal skating coach.

“It’s good to work on skating because it’s such a big part of the game these days,” Tolvanen said. “The skating coach should help me a lot. Every bit of help you can get, you should take. My skating has to be on the top level if you want to play in this game.”

As a Milwaukee STH, I don't believe that he has a skating problem. He was in the top three in team speed along with Richard and Pendenza. He needs to work on his shooting. He is great at one timers from the left dot as you face the goal. Probably 70% of his 15 goals were scored that way last year. He needs to find other ways to get the puck into the net.

Rocco Grimaldi, who played 10 games for Milwaukee, would be the Honorable Mention.
 

Armourboy

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There is more to skating than just speed. Edge work and lateral movement can open things up which can increase your chance at more and better shots.

I seriously doubt he just decided to work on skating out of the blue.
 
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Kaako Kappo

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As a Milwaukee STH, I don't believe that he has a skating problem. He was in the top three in team speed along with Richard and Pendenza. He needs to work on his shooting. He is great at one timers from the left dot as you face the goal. Probably 70% of his 15 goals were scored that way last year. He needs to find other ways to get the puck into the net.

Rocco Grimaldi, who played 10 games for Milwaukee, would be the Honorable Mention.
I do not think that he has a skating problem either. Funny you should bring up the shooting: His AHL coach says here that when Eeli first came, he needed to learn to get his shot off on the small ice and that by the end of the season he had learned that.

If he's been learning how to get his shot off quicker then it's no wonder that the goal totals do not amaze anyone. Yet :- )

That being said, working on skating is still a great thing.
 

AdmiralsFan24

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His AHL coach says here that when Eeli first came, he needed to learn to get his shot off on the small ice and that by the end of the season he had learned that.

When I made that point during the season I was told that this isn't true because he had played in the USHL and was used to smaller ice. Good to see his coach agrees with what I saw.
 

Gh24

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When I made that point during the season I was told that this isn't true because he had played in the USHL and was used to smaller ice. Good to see his coach agrees with what I saw.
Two seasons on small ice with juniors versus 10+ years growing up and learning the game on larger ice. Then first season with men again on bigger ice in KHL. Yeah, I wouldn't call that being used to small rink.
 

triggrman

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Two seasons on small ice with juniors versus 10+ years growing up and learning the game on larger ice. Then first season with men again on bigger ice in KHL. Yeah, I wouldn't call that being used to small rink.
Well, he went to the USHL at 15, do we know at 14 he was playing on a full sized olympic rink? I'm going to bet he practiced every day on a full sized rink plus played in 100+ games.
 

Porter Stoutheart

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Two seasons on small ice with juniors versus 10+ years growing up and learning the game on larger ice. Then first season with men again on bigger ice in KHL. Yeah, I wouldn't call that being used to small rink.
Half the KHL rinks are smaller than Olympic sized. Some of the Finnish ones are too (though not Jokerit's). And the surface you play on as a kid... they are all huge - you are not noticing a loss of time and space to shoot when you are a kid playing minor hockey on NHL vs. Olympic ice! My kids play on Olympic ice sometimes and until you get to at least older AAA level or junior ages it really makes no significant difference. The biggest factor is still the speed/strength of players the and style of play.

Smaller ice surfaces also don't shrink uniformly... the slot is still the same size, the distance from top scoring areas to the goal are still the same, and you can believe that defensemen do not choose to position themselves closer to the boards on in-zone scoring plays just because there is more space there on the outside. Where the bigger ice surface definitely does matter is for quicker players being able to skate the puck on entries. There is more space to make transition plays of all kinds really, skating or passing.

Bottom line, his coach is providing a facile answer. The AHL ice surfaces are smaller than Jokerit's, but players are also bigger, faster, and play a more aggressive style of defensive game. Tolvanen has seen plenty of smaller rinks before, both in the USHL and at home and in the KHL, though anything going back before he was 15 or 16 is absolutely inconsequential. But what he hasn't seen so much of is smaller rinks filled with the next closest thing to players with NHL size, speed, and intelligence playing an aggressive NHL-style game.

You get used to all kinds of weird rink dimensions and characteristics pretty quickly. There are some strange ones around junior rinks and probably in the AHL too though I haven't been to many AHL rinks. The old Boston Garden, Buffalo Aud or Chicago rink sizes didn't really stop Esposito or Hull from begin the best scorers in their era. But they scored a lot in tight or sniping from the slot anyway so again that's not where the main difference is felt. But if they had to go up against modern skating NHL players more often, they'd suddenly notice a reduction in time and space to get their shots off!

For what it's worth, since there's not much else going on these days. :toothless
 
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Porter Stoutheart

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Half the KHL rinks are smaller than Olympic sized. Some of the Finnish ones are too (though not Jokerit's). And the surface you play on as a kid... they are all huge - you are not noticing a loss of time and space to shoot when you are a kid playing minor hockey on NHL vs. Olympic ice! My kids play on Olympic ice sometimes and until you get to at least older AAA level or junior ages it really makes no significant difference. The biggest factor is still the speed/strength of players the and style of play.

Smaller ice surfaces also don't shrink uniformly... the slot is still the same size, the distance from top scoring areas to the goal are still the same, and you can believe that defensemen do not choose to position themselves closer to the boards on in-zone scoring plays just because there is more space there on the outside. Where the bigger ice surface definitely does matter is for quicker players being able to skate the puck on entries. There is more space to make transition plays of all kinds really, skating or passing.

Bottom line, his coach is providing a facile answer. The AHL ice surfaces are smaller than Jokerit's, but players are also bigger, faster, and play a more aggressive style of defensive game. Tolvanen has seen plenty of smaller rinks before, both in the USHL and at home and in the KHL, though anything going back before he was 15 or 16 is absolutely inconsequential. But what he hasn't seen so much of is smaller rinks filled with the next closest thing to players with NHL size, speed, and intelligence playing an aggressive NHL-style game.

You get used to all kinds of weird rink dimensions and characteristics pretty quickly. There are some strange ones around junior rinks and probably in the AHL too though I haven't been to many AHL rinks. The old Boston Garden, Buffalo Aud or Chicago rink sizes didn't really stop Esposito or Hull from begin the best scorers in their era. But they scored a lot in tight or sniping from the slot anyway so again that's not where the main difference is felt. But if they had to go up against modern skating NHL players more often, they'd suddenly notice a reduction in time and space to get their shots off!

For what it's worth, since there's not much else going on these days. :toothless
My self-critique on this is that there is still a rink-size element to shots off the rush. On the bigger ice, D will sometimes have to play back off the puck a little more to try to avoid getting beaten wide... so if Eeli takes a lot of shots off the rush then he'll see a difference in that aspect, I bet.
:propeller
 

triggrman

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Funny, even here in Nashville growing up, we had 2 rinks that were totally different in size. The Municipal Auditorium was a lot smaller than Ice Centennial (showing my age a bit).
 

Kaako Kappo

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Not that it applies to Eeli, but I read recently that all KHL rinks are going to be NHL sized shortly. Others in Europe are expected to follow and it wouldn't be shocking if the IIHF eventually changes as well to make the NHL rink standard worldwide.
IIHF is changing their rink sizes already in a few years. Unless they backpedal on it.
 
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Zub

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I like how you Preds/Ads fans update your prospect threads when you watch your AHL team. Keep it up, I like reading progress on players like Tolvanen.

Yeah this is how a prospect thread is supposed to look. Unlike a couple other finnish players threads..
 

Kaako Kappo

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Farmiin joutuminen tuli Eeli Tolvaselle sokkina, kesällä hän meni luisteluvalmennukseen ja pudotti painoaan

Eeli article. Most interesting points:

-Nashville kinda told him to drop his weight and he has dropped 6 kilos. Says it has helped him to be faster on the ice.

-He trained six weeks with the skating trainer during summer. They worked on his skating technique, explosiveness and tried to make his skating posture a bit lower (Something like that, dunno if it makes sense).

-His mindset is that he's not going to AHL. He's aware that there aren't really free spots on the top lines.
 

Legionnaire11

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I remember there were questions about his skating at the draft. But then we saw him in the first prospect camo and thought it was fine. But dropping weight and working with a coach suggests that it really has been something of an issue. Hopefully this is a big step forward for him, and also that he doesn't get too discouraged when he is in MIL this season.
 

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