Proposal: Edmonton/New Jersey

[Blackjack]

Yeah it’s a big overpay but I like what Nurse brings and I feel he and Subban would be a solid top pair for the next 3 years. We would survive the trade because of our depth but you gotta pay especially when it’s for a player you really want and the other team is not really interested in trading.

Overpaying in trades is not how you build a good team. Shero will need to be patient and get good value on a LD, not trade away good young players like Butcher and Bratt.

 

[lakai17]

Wheres all the Jesper Boqvist int this thread?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Good evidence. Look at both players' numbers for their entire careers. You can use the entire sample. Tell me who's more effective.

Nurse plays more minutes, that's about it. If Butcher ends up on a pairing with Subban, this should be a fun thread to revisit. Nurse is a totally average player that is overrated because of size and where he was drafted.

Nurse brings an entirely different element than Butcher and had a career year last year, and he plays more
minutes because he is flat out better and more well rounded.

Butcher had a good rookie year and cratered. Right now Nurse is better by a mile. If Nurse is average than Butcher is a glorified bottom pairing one trick pony that lives and dies by offensive zone starts and power play time. He managed ONE more even strength point last season than Kris Russell and Matt Benning.

 

[belair]

Good evidence. Look at both players' numbers for their entire careers. You can use the entire sample. Tell me who's more effective.

Nurse plays more minutes, that's about it. If Butcher ends up on a pairing with Subban, this should be a fun thread to revisit. Nurse is a totally average player that is overrated because of size and where he was drafted.

If Butcher pairs with Subban, your team is poised to lose a lot of hockey games.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Nurse brings an entirely different element than Butcher and had a career year last year, and he plays more
minutes because he is flat out better and more well rounded.

Butcher had a good rookie year and cratered. Right now Nurse is better by a mile. If Nurse is average than Butcher is a glorified bottom pairing one trick pony that lives and dies by offensive zone starts and power play time. He managed ONE more even strength point last season than Kris Russell and Matt Benning.

It’s hard to even respond to this wave of ignorance. Continually bringing up zone starts as if they mean anything, using counting stats to determine a dman’s offensive impact(ignoring that the Devils ridiculously injured and terrible last year). You’re not even making an argument. “Nurse is better because...uh he’s better because uh... it’s not even close!” Okay. Player Season Totals - Natural Stat TrickShow me how he’s better. Butcher is already as good as Nurse two years into his career. You didn’t even read the article I posted before if you’re so happy with Nurse’s “career year” last year.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

It’s hard to even respond to this wave of ignorance. Continually bringing up zone starts as if they mean anything, using counting stats to determine a dman’s offensive impact(ignoring that the Devils ridiculously injured and terrible last year). You’re not even making an argument. “Nurse is better because...uh he’s better because uh... it’s not even close!” Okay. Player Season Totals - Natural Stat TrickShow me how he’s better. Butcher is already as good as Nurse two years into his career. You didn’t even read the article I posted before if you’re so happy with Nurse’s “career year” last year.

zonestarts mean a lot. It means that even the Devils coaching staff doesn’t think as highly of Butcher as you do and see fit to coddle him by starting him as far from his own net as possible.

Weird you started your comparison in a year Butcher wasn’t even in the NHL. Everyone knows Butcher was bad last year, but hey, coast on his rookie year all you like.

the DEVILS were terrible last year? did you miss the fact that the Oilers iced an AHL group of forwards outside of the big three guys?

I’ve already told you where Nurse is better - virtually all non-points measures of a defenceman. If you want to disregard physicality and defensive play that’s on you. It’s why he sees much tougher zonestarts and competition than the butter soft stuff Butcher gets. He brings an entirely different physical element to his game, while bringing every ounce of offense Butcher does at even strength. You just continually ignore it and keep throwing up spreadsheets as if they mean anything regarding a defenceman‘s in zone play.

Want Nurse, don’t want Nurse, I don’t really care. He’s not for sale for your spare parts.

 

[belair]

It’s hard to even respond to this wave of ignorance. Continually bringing up zone starts as if they mean anything, using counting stats to determine a dman’s offensive impact(ignoring that the Devils ridiculously injured and terrible last year). You’re not even making an argument. “Nurse is better because...uh he’s better because uh... it’s not even close!” Okay. Player Season Totals - Natural Stat TrickShow me how he’s better. Butcher is already as good as Nurse two years into his career. You didn’t even read the article I posted before if you’re so happy with Nurse’s “career year” last year.

Nurse is bigger, stronger, faster than Will Butcher. He's stronger on the puck, he's better at generating shots. He's harder to play against from an opponent's perspective.

You arguing that Butcher is in the same ballpark as Nurse would be akin to me arguing that Matt Benning is equal to Vatanen. It's nonsense.

 

[tony d]

Edmonton would have to add to the deal in the OP IMO.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Too much crap to even respond to. No, Nurse isn’t better at generating shots for his team. No numbers support that. Nurse’s two most common forward teammates are the best player in the sport and Draisaitl. That might mean more than his tOuGh CoMpEtItIon. Defense isn’t just about being big, strong, or fast. Butcher is better at denying the zone and significantly better at exiting the dzone.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

HF tale as old as time.

give player you can’t replace for these random things we’re willing to trade

lol no

actually your player sucks (insert mediocre player we have) is just as good (he isn’t) you want too much for him so trade him to us

lol no

 

[Cheddabombs]

zonestarts mean a lot. It means that even the Devils coaching staff doesn’t think as highly of Butcher as you do and see fit to coddle him by starting him as far from his own net as possible.

Weird you started your comparison in a year Butcher wasn’t even in the NHL. Everyone knows Butcher was bad last year, but hey, coast on his rookie year all you like.

the DEVILS were terrible last year? did you miss the fact that the Oilers iced an AHL group of forwards outside of the big three guys?

I’ve already told you where Nurse is better - virtually all non-points measures of a defenceman. If you want to disregard physicality and defensive play that’s on you. It’s why he sees much tougher zonestarts and competition than the butter soft stuff Butcher gets. He brings an entirely different physical element to his game, while bringing every ounce of offense Butcher does at even strength. You just continually ignore it and keep throwing up spreadsheets as if they mean anything regarding a defenceman‘s in zone play.

Want Nurse, don’t want Nurse, I don’t really care. He’s not for sale for your spare parts.

not gonna get into all of this, I don't think the Devils can reasonably afford Nurse.

but saying the Devils start Butcher more in the offensive zone only because he's not good defensively just isn't true. yours is the glass half empty approach, could it be the opposite in that they want to start Butcher as close to the opponents net as possible? it's most likely a mix of both, i'm not gonna sit here and say he's a stalwart defensively but it's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

not gonna get into all of this, I don't think the Devils can reasonably afford Nurse.

but saying the Devils start Butcher more in the offensive zone only because he's not good defensively just isn't true. yours is the glass half empty approach, could it be the opposite in that they want to start Butcher as close to the opponents net as possible? it's most likely a mix of both, i'm not gonna sit here and say he's a stalwart defensively but it's not as black and white as you're making it out to be.

If that were true you’d think he’d have outpointed Kris Russell at even strength, but here we are.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

If that were true you’d think he’d have outpointed Kris Russell at even strength, but here we are.

You just fundamentally don’t understand the sport if you don’t think Butcher outperformed Kris Russell at even strength. Like, I wish I could get back the time I wasted even responding to your posts, my god.

 

[Cheddabombs]

If that were true you’d think he’d have outpointed Kris Russell at even strength, but here we are.

why would I think that? I said he was one of the Devils best offensive defensemen, which is true, but I never said that was a tall order or that he's better than any Oilers' player.

 

[Seachd]

Butcher is already as good as Nurse two years into his career.

This is a really strange sentence. You say this as if you don't know they're about the exact same age.

But yeah, give me Nurse easily.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You just fundamentally don’t understand the sport if you don’t think Butcher outperformed Kris Russell at even strength. Like, I wish I could get back the time I wasted even responding to your posts, my god.

Your offensive defenceman struggled to produce at even strength, isn’t physical, and by even your own fanbases admission isn’t great defensively.

He’s a decent power play quarterback with 21 and 16 points at evens in his career so far. He’s a run of the mill second pairing defenceman that isn’t special at... well. Anything. That’s it.

We didn’t ask for him. He was offered up in a package for what the poster felt was a better defenceman. I agree with him.

You don’t fundamentally understand the sport if you can’t wrap your head around how a defenceman like Nurse brings orders of magnitude more to a team than a guy like Butcher.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

why would I think that? I said he was one of the Devils best offensive defensemen, which is true, but I never said that was a tall order or that he's better than any Oilers' player.

fair enough. If he’s an offensive defenceman, he just isn’t very good at it when the teams are even, that’s all - and if he’s not good offensively, and he’s not good defensively, then to quote office space: what would you say ya do here?

 

[Cheddabombs]

fair enough. If he’s an offensive defenceman, he just isn’t very good at it when the teams are even, that’s all - and if he’s not good offensively, and he’s not good defensively, then to quote office space: what would you say ya do here?

meh I mean I think the team, and especially him, had a down year. I think he's closer to what he did in his rookie year than last year but this will be a big season for him to prove that.

 

[Blender]

fair enough. If he’s an offensive defenceman, he just isn’t very good at it when the teams are even, that’s all - and if he’s not good offensively, and he’s not good defensively, then to quote office space: what would you say ya do here?

For one he's a very good play driver, and he's decent defensively. Pretty inaccurate for anyone to say otherwise, since he was much better defensively last year than in his rookie year. You said in an earlier post that "everyone knows Butcher was bad last year", which is going to be news to anyone who actually watches the Devils since he was better than his rookie year in every single way except point totals.

 

[Nico Hischier]

Will Butcher is a solid defenseman. He and Severson make a really good pairing. He shouldn’t be compared to Kris Russell who gets ripped apart in NHL blooper highlights

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Nurse is way better than Butcher defensively if you ignore most metrics that matter, that’s definitely true. Covering your eyes and ears and screaming about size and zone starts is how you win an argument.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

This thread is a disaster.

There's absolutely no reason for EDM to do the OP. It's a bad deal for the Oilers.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Not high on either player. I see both as 2nd pairing dmen who add value in different ways. Butcher can transition the puck better and play the PP better. Nurse can stomach more starts in the dzone and on the fly starts.

Nurse is probably overrated by his toolbox and draft pedigree. He’s just not an impact defender via my eye test and his underlying numbers seem to backt that up.

Oilers if they were smart would probably be wise to sell high on him after a 40 point season and see if they could sucker someone for a top6/line forward.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Zacha is a third line center. A fourth line center in New Jersey. You'll be waiting a while for that breakout.

Zacha for Puljujarvi still.

no still.

 

[Revelation]

Both Wood and Zacha could be really good for Edmonton

Wood in theory is a perfect 3rd wheel for McDavid-Drasaitl, a blazing fast straightforward skating Patrick Maroon

Zacha the perfect 3c behind two skilled non physically oriented offensive Cs