Elks: Edmonton Eskimos Thread: 5-7

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Stoneman89

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Seems to be a lot of dislike for this player. I dunno, on the play in question Jones mentioned(I missed it) it was a no yards call and I think Doe must've realized that and thus the free play to try to create. That said I don't like returners fiddling around in the endzone at all. Probably I would be mumbling at the TV if I had seen that. :laugh:

I'll continue to maintain fielding the ball at Mosaic on a windy day is a nightmare and players have commented on that as long as Taylor Field has existed. When the wind blows there it feels very unpredictable. I've seen a lot of entirely misjudged balls where returners have trouble gauging even where the ball is going and therefore fumbling etc.

I think where we differ on this is that in the new CFL where pretty much every hold, clip, illegal block is called is the return game has become a pedestrian state of affairs where all I really expect is nominal positive yards and not turning the ball over. I missed the play in question, didn't see it.

Gone is the day where returns were a critical part of the game and where TD's would occur a lot and be primary factors in games. Now its just try to get 10 positive yds and that's about it. The worst to me is returners losing yds on returns, fumbling, or penalty calls. Doe doing a real straight up return has minimized some of the calls the esks get on special teams.

Basically are special teams unit is not very good this year. Seems to be a lot of change in personnel and a rebuilding year for the unit. So my expectations of it I guess are not high.

No one dislikes him any more than your dislike of McKnight early on in the season. He is simply not getting the job done, and is nowhere near what is required at that position, and nothing more. And it's hurting this team big time, amounst other things.
 

Stoneman89

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Where are the blake Dermott alleged quotes coming from? I don't listen to sports radio or anything like that ever. If these statements are on line or from some known source why not link them so everybody can have a read?

He was on the postgame show. Normally I don't listen to the game on radio, but we were driving into the city during the game and I was subjected to having to listen to Morley Scott and Dave Campbell. Dermott comes on right after the game, and is the only thing worth listening to. A really smart, enlightened guy that has a knack for pointing out obvious things as well as others that the casual fan may miss. You may be able to find his comments on the CHED archives.
 

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He was on the postgame show. Normally I don't listen to the game on radio, but we were driving into the city during the game and I was subjected to having to listen to Morley Scott and Dave Campbell. Dermott comes on right after the game, and is the only thing worth listening to. A really smart, enlightened guy that has a knack for pointing out obvious things as well as others that the casual fan may miss. You may be able to find his comments on the CHED archives.

OK, thanks. I think its been decades since I listened to a game on the radio either. so much that I wouldn't know any of the broadcast personalities or even what station its on. Ched, hmmm, been along time since I tuned that station in or AM radio in general. I think I have AM in the vehicle. Never listened to it.

heh, I still remember transistor radios though when AM radio was king. ;)
 

MoneyGuy

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Would love to take credit for giving Benevedes that nickname, but someone else on here beat me to it a couple weeks ago, and several others thought it was funny. If a guy is coaching like crap, he should be entitled to have a suitable nickname. There's likely a few things that you post on here that annoy the hell out of me, but I'll take the high road. Sorry if it annoys you.:D

Benevides has a passive coaching style that doesn't seem to work with the personnel we have. I think a more aggressive style of coaching is needed to win in this league. I think he's misused a pretty decent front 4, and expecting them to get constant pressure on a QB, that usually has 6 blockers helping him out.

I forgive you. :) At least you gave up on the Walker Texas Ranger one.
 

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No one dislikes him any more than your dislike of McKnight early on in the season. He is simply not getting the job done, and is nowhere near what is required at that position, and nothing more. And it's hurting this team big time, amounst other things.

He is actually near whats required to get the job done. Around 1yd off the average return in the league. The difference being miniscule and not even relevant. In the same game yesterday in which half a dozen posters called for Does head there was 19yds total differential between the respective returners. Big deal. That's not a game changer. Fumbling twice and giving up two TD's a Mcnight did cost this team a game, single handedly, and possibly a playoff spot due to that disaster. Last week against Calgary Doe had 85 more return yds than the Calgary returners combined.

The one thing I can't excuse in returners is a tendency to fumble the ball. Like I said the main thing in current CFL is don't turn it over. Get the positive yds you can get, that's it.

The CFL return game has changed drastically. Long returns are rare now and when they occur they are more often than not called back on an infraction.
 

Paralyzer

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The last 2 pages I'm assuming it's Replacement, Stoneman and MoneyGuy ripping in Maas, Hervey, the Eskimos and the holes that were created. AMIRITE? :laugh:

Any ways, after the labor day classic, I felt there's no way we can make the playoffs. Even the east is picking it up. We are in tough boys.
 

MoneyGuy

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I generally give coaches the benefit of the doubt because they're better at that than we fans are and they know the inner workings. However, I can't for the life of me see what Maas sees in Doe. He does nothing and shows no sign of improving. I know Gizmo and he looks like he could still play. I wonder if he's interested.

****, I'd do it. I can lose yards just as well as Doe can and I'm a National so it wouldn't even cost us an International roster spot. I've said it before that I'd give Bell a shot and that gets him onto the roster with White and we can spot him into the offence as needed.
 

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The last 2 pages I'm assuming it's Replacement, Stoneman and MoneyGuy ripping in Maas, Hervey, the Eskimos and the holes that were created. AMIRITE? :laugh:

Any ways, after the labor day classic, I felt there's no way we can make the playoffs. Even the east is picking it up. We are in tough boys.

Actually I'm supporting the club and trying to stay positive about the season. Made easier as the Esks are defending Grey Cup champs so as a fan I'm currently sated pretty much regardless of what happens this year. Its a rebuild year, forced on the team through circumstance we all know. This is a good org, this is still a good org. They'll be another day, may even happen this season still.

As far as playoff spot we are tied with Argos and still control our destiny. We play Argos last week afairc. That might actually boil down to be a one game playoff to see who advances and if we get the crossover. The East is comparatively week.
 

Paralyzer

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Actually I'm supporting the club and trying to stay positive about the season. Made easier as the Esks are defending Grey Cup champs so as a fan I'm currently sated pretty much regardless of what happens this year. Its a rebuild year, forced on the team through circumstance we all know. This is a good org, this is still a good org. They'll be another day, may even happen this season still.

As far as playoff spot we are tied with Argos and still control our destiny. We play Argos last week afairc. That might actually boil down to be a one game playoff to see who advances and if we get the crossover. The East is comparatively week.

Fair enough. I'm just going by all the paragraphs you three have written the last 2 pages and figured this is what was going on. I don't have the patience to read it all haha.
 

MoneyGuy

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I think you're mostly right in that we are ripping the team. With good reason, I think. It's sad when you go from a championship to likely missing the playoffs in one season, but we lost a lot over the off season so I do kind of get it, although we should have recruited better. I see this as a two-year rebuild. Next season we had better be much better. No more losing to the stupid Riders. :) And you should read the last few pages. There are some gems there.
 

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Fair enough. I'm just going by all the paragraphs you three have written the last 2 pages and figured this is what was going on. I don't have the patience to read it all haha.

I remember attending the Grey Cup party downtown and some real odd things Hervey stated on the stage that the esks fans were real passionate, often too passionate, and he actually said this, that it drives him crazy sometimes. My head spun hearing that. There was actually a little acrimony in the message which was odd and very much out of sort with a celebration. He was maybe joking, but he deadpanned the line. In fairness this was with all the controversy regarding Jones who also got a bit of heckling for his by then known jumping to the riders. All in all a strange day and you wondered things would not be the same for awhile. I commented on it here.

tbh my take is that Hervey may even be exhausted and maybe even a little burn out what with all the events. Replacing a coaching staff AND a core of exceptional players is perhaps too much to ask and that nature of rebuild would typically take time even in the CFL. I expect the club to make the playoffs, maybe make some noise, and be a better club next season. In fariness Hervey has been in a perpetual state of rebuild here the entire time he's been here. An unfair workload for any CFL GM(especially considering run of the mill remuneration) and maybe even untenable. Probably burns Hervey a little inside that Jones took all the credit and gets paid more. has to be some bad feelings in addition to what we've heard.

Hervey has been a good GM. I'm not about to turn on him now. He's earned a pass and benefit of doubt imho.


All the above would appear to be bizarre given my usual posting/rambling about the Oilers..;)
 
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Stoneman89

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I remember attending the Grey Cup party downtown and some real odd things Hervey stated on the stage that the esks fans were real passionate, often too passionate, and he actually said this, that it drives him crazy sometimes. My head spun hearing that. There was actually a little acrimony in the message which was odd and very much out of sort with a celebration. He was maybe joking, but he deadpanned the line. In fairness this was with all the controversy regarding Jones who also got a bit of heckling for his by then known jumping to the riders. All in all a strange day and you wondered things would not be the same for awhile. I commented on it here.

tbh my take is that Hervey may even be exhausted and maybe even a little burn out what with all the events. Replacing a coaching staff AND a core of exceptional players is perhaps too much to ask and that nature of rebuild would typically take time even in the CFL. I expect the club to make the playoffs, maybe make some noise, and be a better club next season. In fariness Hervey has been in a perpetual state of rebuild here the entire time he's been here. An unfair workload for any CFL GM(especially considering run of the mill remuneration) and maybe even untenable. Probably burns Hervey a little inside that Jones took all the credit and gets paid more. has to be some bad feelings in addition to what we've heard.

Hervey has been a good GM. I'm not about to turn on him now. He's earned a pass and benefit of doubt imho.


All the above would appear to be bizarre given my usual posting/rambling about the Oilers..;)


I agree with this post. I'm not about to give up on Hervey. I think he is a smart and saavy guy and he'll get it right. But there are a lot of holes on this squad, far more than most of us thought there would be at the beginning of the year. And it is indeed frustrating to not see as many of them fixed as quickly as we would like.

Getting rid of Doe would be an excellent start.:D
 

Stoneman89

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I forgive you. :) At least you gave up on the Walker Texas Ranger one.

Not a chance. That's my own nickname for Walker and I'm not about to change now. I'll be calling him that until the day he hangs up the cleats for us, and maybe longer. And if it irritates you, all the better.:D

Walker. Texas Ranger.:D
 
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guymez

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I agree with this post. I'm not about to give up on Hervey. I think he is a smart and saavy guy and he'll get it right. But there are a lot of holes on this squad, far more than most of us thought there would be at the beginning of the year. And it is indeed frustrating to not see as many of them fixed as quickly as we would like.

Getting rid of Doe would be an excellent start.:D

I think that management/coaches should be judged on their history and their ability to correct poor decisions.

Benevides has a history of doing exactly what he has been doing so far with this team. Expecting time to change that is a cop out IMO.
Its not going to change...there is no conceivable reason to expect it to change. There is a difference between utilizing facts and past performance to reach a conclusion....and deferring any conclusion and hoping to high heaven for a change. The latter is an unsupportable position because its foundation is hope. Hope for change despite all the contrary evidence is a formula for disappointment.

As for Hervey....the only way to gauge how 'smart' he is involves scrutiny of his decision making. He has made some good decisions (Reilly and Jones) and he has made some bad decisions as well.
His limited history doesnt reflect at all that he is a 'smart' GM. It reflects that he is still learning...how quickly he learns will IMO reflect just how 'smart' he is.

So the litmus test for Hervey will be how he moves forward and resolves his bad decisions (Benevides, and Maas and multiple poor recruitment decisions).
Hervey is new enough as a GM that he deserves the benefit of more time. There just isnt enough history at this time to know conclusively what his ability as a GM really is.
Benevides on the other hand has a track record and as such he has shown little to no capacity of adjusting his philosophies.
I cant imagine why anybody would need to see more of the same to form an opinion on this mans ability as a coach.
 

MoneyGuy

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....I cant imagine why anybody would need to see more of the same to form an opinion on this mans ability as a coach.

I'd argue that we can't properly assess Bene's ability unless he's given good personnel. He's been saddled by some aging vets on the line who have lost a step and a secondary that can't cover. I give Hervey one more off season to recruit at those positions. Thank God we have Paul Jones but with his health I hope he isn't forced to retire, or worse.
 

lakai17

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Replay of Sundays game is on tsn2 of anyones interested.
 
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guymez

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I'd argue that we can't properly assess Bene's ability unless he's given good personnel. He's been saddled by some aging vets on the line who have lost a step and a secondary that can't cover. I give Hervey one more off season to recruit at those positions. Thank God we have Paul Jones but with his health I hope he isn't forced to retire, or worse.

I disagree. Benevides has effectively neutered a strong front 7. He continues to employ his conservative defensive approach thereby exposing the inexperience in the secondary because opposing QB's have too much time.
The games against Calgary underscored that point repeatedly.
According to multiple reports (including posters on this site) this is exactly the same system he used in the past.
It doesnt work especially with the personnel he does have right now.
His inability to utilize the blitz effectively and his inability to disrupt the passing lanes also supports my position.

I really dont know what you expect to change with this coach. He is coaching exactly the way he has always coached and its failing.
I for one dont need to see another 6 games of the same thing because it will provide no new information.
 

bone

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I disagree. Benevides has effectively neutered a strong front 7. He continues to employ his conservative defensive approach thereby exposing the inexperience in the secondary because opposing QB's have too much time.
The games against Calgary underscored that point repeatedly.
According to multiple reports (including posters on this site) this is exactly the same system he used in the past.
It doesnt work especially with the personnel he does have right now.
His inability to utilize the blitz effectively and his inability to disrupt the passing lanes also supports my position.

I really dont know what you expect to change with this coach. He is coaching exactly the way he has always coached and its failing.
I for one dont need to see another 6 games of the same thing because it will provide no new information.

That's fine, but you are not actually suggesting firing him right now, in mid-season, are you? Who replaces him for the last 6 games? Off-season, there is a very good chance he is gone, but we probably have to watch these last 6 games regardless.
 

guymez

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That's fine, but you are not actually suggesting firing him right now, in mid-season, are you? Who replaces him for the last 6 games? Off-season, there is a very good chance he is gone, but we probably have to watch these last 6 games regardless.

I think you are right...the team pretty much has to ride out the season with Benevides.
My point was that the remaining 6 games wont reveal any new information about his abilities.
The book has been written.
 

Cloned

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The problem with Benevides is he's not confident in the DB's covering to send blitzes. So he's trying to play it in the middle and be vanilla.

And that's probably the worst thing you can do in football, is be in the middle. Either play aggressive or play conservative, but don't be undecided.
 

guymez

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The problem with Benevides is he's not confident in the DB's covering to send blitzes. So he's trying to play it in the middle and be vanilla.

And that's probably the worst thing you can do in football, is be in the middle. Either play aggressive or play conservative, but don't be undecided.

The reality is that by not pressuring the QB and making him hurry his read Benevides is exposing the secondary to being exploited.

Thats exactly whats been happening. So this mindset of not initiating pressure to spare the Db's is counter productive.
 

oXo Cube

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I'll say one good thing about Benevides. His linebackers look good. He's got Sheritt playing the best football he has played in years.

The rest of the package, yeah. He defends like he's scared to make a mistake.
 

phonyphreak

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The reality is that by not pressuring the QB and making him hurry his read Benevides is exposing the secondary to being exploited.

Thats exactly whats been happening. So this mindset of not initiating pressure to spare the Db's is counter productive.



IMO the lack of Dline rotation , and too many vanilla bull rushes from the Dline are hurting us. Lack of rotation the most IMO
 

Replacement*

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I'll say one good thing about Benevides. His linebackers look good. He's got Sheritt playing the best football he has played in years.

The rest of the package, yeah. He defends like he's scared to make a mistake.

Can't agree with this. Sherritt is looking overwhelmed, is making as many wrong reads as I've seen, and if its still the same set he's the one that's supposed to be spying the QB. Durant had the best game he's had rushing in several years. Not to mention power backs like Messam, and even Steele this weekend were plowing right over the diminutive Sherritt.
 

Stoneman89

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The problem with Benevides is he's not confident in the DB's covering to send blitzes. So he's trying to play it in the middle and be vanilla.

And that's probably the worst thing you can do in football, is be in the middle. Either play aggressive or play conservative, but don't be undecided.

This is pretty much what I said early in the year. And I believe that. However, I think we're at the point in the season, where you have to start using the blitz more to be successful. Sink or swim, the guys in the backfield will have to suck it up.

The thing about Jone's blitz's, is that they come from places and people that you never expect them to come from. Constantly mixing it up. The few times we do blitz, even that seems very typical and old school.
 
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