Elks: Edmonton Eskimos Thread: 5-7

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Season is a failure, Maas won't get fired, but they need to look to next season. I hope they don't come home for a bit, because that was complete and utter failure yesterday.

A more reasonable view might have it that GC teams that lose a half dozen star players, a coaching staff, are really up against it. Add to this that one of the teams employs a coaching staff that knew every play this team runs. Which gives the Riders an atypical advantage preparing for Eskimos that they do not have facing other teams. In case people are wondering why the Riders have fared better against Edmonton.

Next, sky is falling notwithstanding, this team could still make the playoffs, and could still make some noise. The record of this club is far worse than its play has been and for instance OT has not been kind to the team, then there was the comeback by the Ticats and a loss to Ottawa where the Esks were jobbed of a result.

Essentially this is a 500 or better team, based on play, but with standings south of that. I say that because the team on the field is still better than people are presently thinking.
 

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I turned off at half time. Even that felt like too much time wasted.

Yeah, if you watched most of that game you truly want that time back, I know I do.

The game was very frustrating to watch and felt like a loss of time. Acknowledged there. But mostly I was pulling hairs out around how an esks D was allowing Rider drives.

Lastly, as much as people fault Benevides, and theres enough fault there, but the execution by the D this game, and most of the year has been deplorable. Making wrong reads much more often than right and losing contain, losing coverage by habit. This D, despite having monsters on the line that should be good enough are struggling with sacks, with contain, and against the run. Which is inexplicable. I could see our secondary being bad. Theres less excuse for the other D deficits we are seeing.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

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A more reasonable view might have it that GC teams that lose a half dozen star players, a coaching staff, are really up against it. Add to this that one of the teams employs a coaching staff that knew every play this team runs. Which gives the Riders an atypical advantage preparing for Eskimos that they do not have facing other teams. In case people are wondering why the Riders have fared better against Edmonton.

Next, sky is falling notwithstanding, this team could still make the playoffs, and could still make some noise. The record of this club is far worse than its play has been and for instance OT has not been kind to the team, then there was the comeback by the Ticats and a loss to Ottawa where the Esks were jobbed of a result.

Essentially this is a 500 or better team, based on play, but with standings south of that. I say that because the team on the field is still better than people are presently thinking.

Yet the team down south seems to keep things together quite well. The Esks win one championship and the entire house of cards falls apart. They're not even going to make the playoffs this year.
 

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Yet the team down south seems to keep things together quite well. The Esks win one championship and the entire house of cards falls apart. They're not even going to make the playoffs this year.

That's fair comment, but consider that the Stamps are in their post dynastic stage, a stage similar to what Eskimos had after their 5 GC's. Thus Calgary still has a lot of devoted guys in the org, and on the team, imparting wisdom and success. Comparitively the Esks are coming off one of their worst ever periods To compare the two franchises at this one moment in time is misleading. The Esks, overall, have been the better franchise, and it makes me lol that the Esks actually won the GC last year in what should be Calgary Stamps dominating years. Would make me laugh more if Calgary fails to get it done again this season.

Nobody was beating the Eskimos any of the times they were the top team and franchise in the league, nobody was close.

indeed the Eskimos franchise has twice as many GC wins as Calgary Stampeders and the Stamps have been in the league longer.

Nothing wrong with that perspective being applied.
 

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I got home with a few minutes left in the fourth and saw the Esks were only up by a touchdown. All I could think of was "They're not really going to blow this game are they?"

Given the wind conditions I knew it was going to be hard to hold the lead. The wind was drastically impacting field position in the game, all game. The Esks offense first 6 starts in the game took place from the average own 13yd line. That's a recipe for trouble usually. The offense valiantly got the ball out of trouble. Its hard to get a lot of TD's when you're looking at long fields a lot of the time.
 

KeithIsActuallyBad

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That's fair comment, but consider that the Stamps are in their post dynastic stage, a stage similar to what Eskimos had after their 5 GC's. Thus Calgary still has a lot of devoted guys in the org, and on the team, imparting wisdom and success. Comparitively the Esks are coming off one of their worst ever periods To compare the two franchises at this one moment in time is misleading. The Esks, overall, have been the better franchise, and it makes me lol that the Esks actually won the GC last year in what should be Calgary Stamps dominating years. Would make me laugh more if Calgary fails to get it done again this season.

Nobody was beating the Eskimos any of the times they were the top team and franchise in the league, nobody was close.

indeed the Eskimos franchise has twice as many GC wins as Calgary Stampeders and the Stamps have been in the league longer.

Nothing wrong with that perspective being applied.

Of course but some of us haven't been around long enough to witness those years. ;)

I will be stunned if Calgary doesn't win it all this year. They're not just winning but crushing teams. Nobody else even comes close. That being said if the Esks could somehow cross over and make it to the big show...
 

bone

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Esks offence is 2nd in the league in pts generated.

Esks D is 2nd worst in the league in pts allowed
.

The deduction from there should be simple, but you somehow conclude the offense is to blame and they have been all year..:laugh:

Throw another neat stat out there. Durant has run for only 145 yds all year before this game. Meaning an average of 10yds/game and around 4yds/carry until today. By no means has this been the mobile Durant of old. But the Esks make him look like Warren Moon scampering today giving him 68yds on 5 carries and every one key in the Riders victory. Durant who hasn't broken contain 10 times all season did it 5 times today against a pathetic defensive performance. I'm sure even the Riders fans were thinking when was the last we saw Durant being left to run like this.

PS Doe had 195 return yds just last week against the Stamps, by far, the best team in the league and the most that the Stamps have allowed in any game all year. Where were all the comments Doe should be cut last week? Doe didn't get one word of credit here last week for a fantastic game against the best return coverage in the league.

That seems to be cherry picking after a game like this, stats are stats, but the offense/ST gave up just as many points as the defense in regulation last night and the defense made a huge stop to get it to overtime when Reilly called an audible for an interception.

A lot of the defensive stats were earned in the first 5-6 weeks when they were historically bad (33 points against per game). Whereas they have been about 27 per game since then (24 in regulation) despite the blowout loss in Calgary which is at least around middle of the pack.
This defense isn't really brutal anymore just very mediocre.

What I take exception to is how many still feel this offense is elite. Reilly, Bowman, and Walker are putting up nice stats, but they are just stats not wins or scores. Way too many ill-timed turnovers (in the red zone or inside the three minute warning) or 2 and outs when the defense is reeling. The offense is also very mediocre.

Special teams (outside of Whyte) are simply a gong show and are costing us huge field position.

So we have 2 out of 3 areas that are basically just mediocre and one area that is brutal and you see a bad team with bad results (though 3 of the losses have been in OT).

This team reminds me of the Kavis Reed teams, always finding a way to blow it.
 

Jimmi McJenkins

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Yet the team down south seems to keep things together quite well. The Esks win one championship and the entire house of cards falls apart. They're not even going to make the playoffs this year.

Complete and utter embarrassment for sure. They really need to start working on a proper Depth of talent, because they clearly lack it when someone leaves.

It's frustrating, because they did good things against Calgary in the 2nd game, but they are just a bad bad team.
 

lakai17

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The riders were playing half decent football their last few games. We can't be too surprised with the last game.
 

Jimmi McJenkins

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The riders were playing half decent football their last few games. We can't be too surprised with the last game.

We saw the Oilers play "decent" games and get a lot of "L"s, they are a horrendous team you shouldn't lose to at this point in the season, an utter embarrassment.
 

Stoneman89

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Don't wreck a good story,:laugh: he still had 120yds besides that. ;)

But that FG return would not have been meaningless had it gone all the way and with decent blocking could have.

120 yards on a whole batch of return types in the game, many of them as the Stamps kept scoring. The long one was meaningless, the Stamps let him get as far as they felt and then smothered him. Never a danger of him going all the way.

Terry Jones of the Sun nails it. Time to start calling him D'oh.


"Mental issues predominate.

This one featured return man Kenzel Doe.

Mr. D’oh was a major mess.

There’s no excuse for a coaching staff to allow a guy to get to Game 12 and have absolutely no clue of what to do back there playing this Canadian game.

There have been multiple examples going into this game, but Sunday, Mr. D’oh actually caught the punt and took it back into the end zone. Then he fumbled.

Saskatchewan recovered for the touchdown.

He was saved by a no-yards penalty.

But later in the game, Mr. D’oh didn’t give up the single that any bantam player in Canada could tell you the circumstances dictated. Instead, the Eskimos started the drive under their goalposts. Punter Grant Shaw was forced to give up a two-point safety touch.

The difference was winning the game 20-19 or going to overtime.

There’s no reason for Mr. D’oh to remain an Eskimo."


Exactly.
 

Stoneman89

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That seems to be cherry picking after a game like this, stats are stats, but the offense/ST gave up just as many points as the defense in regulation last night and the defense made a huge stop to get it to overtime when Reilly called an audible for an interception.

A lot of the defensive stats were earned in the first 5-6 weeks when they were historically bad (33 points against per game). Whereas they have been about 27 per game since then (24 in regulation) despite the blowout loss in Calgary which is at least around middle of the pack.
This defense isn't really brutal anymore just very mediocre.

What I take exception to is how many still feel this offense is elite. Reilly, Bowman, and Walker are putting up nice stats, but they are just stats not wins or scores. Way too many ill-timed turnovers (in the red zone or inside the three minute warning) or 2 and outs when the defense is reeling. The offense is also very mediocre.

Special teams (outside of Whyte) are simply a gong show and are costing us huge field position.

So we have 2 out of 3 areas that are basically just mediocre and one area that is brutal and you see a bad team with bad results (though 3 of the losses have been in OT).

This team reminds me of the Kavis Reed teams, always finding a way to blow it.


Well put, and what most of us can see out there. Blake Dermott says, the lack of finish is the white elephant on the team, the thing no one talks about. The lack of mental fortitude that makes a major score out of a field goal, or turnover, which has become this teams offensive calling card the last 8-9 games or so. The gaudy offensive stats on this team are changing, and really, are not helping much. When you drive down the field and consistently only get FG's or picks, or fumbles, something is amiss. And producing nothing but 2 and outs during crucial parts in a game is disturbing to say the least.

This team has some major issues. Kenny Stafford was never replaced as the 3rd import receiver. Their Canadian receiver talent and depth is weak, despite drafting mostly that group with their high picks the last few years.

The defensive backfield is a mess, with their safety probably the worst safety in the league right now and should not be near a CFL backfield. Marcel Young looks like he has lost a step, and Watkins ain't getting younger. Cord Parks and the other guy are mediocre. Ojo is dearly missed, as is Grymes.

I have hope for the linebacking and defensive front. Hunt looks like a keeper and if they get Jefferson back, that will be good. Willis looks like he's losing a gear.

Benefeces has to go. I now agree with Guymez. His pacifying system only works with a superb defensive line and all stars at linebacker across the board. He game plan is getting torn to shreds. Only some outstanding individual play are saving the day, in most cases, in particular, Sherrit, Hunt and Ladler.

As discussed, the return game and punt game continue to give up large chunks of field position. Hopefully we may have solved some of that if Maas ever gets his head out of the sand and plays Stoudamire, who if he still has it, can help. Shaw is crap. 31 years old and still can't produce more than a couple coffin corner kicks in a season and usually loses the yardage game.
 

Stoneman89

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2 Seasons in a row where our 2 bye weeks are 2nd and 17th week? that's garbage, not every team has to deal with that.

It's not the end of the world either. We had a less than desirable schedule last year and finished first and won the GC. Lots of teams this year have suffered significant injuries. The Stamps have gone with a patchwork offensive line again this year due to injury, even having a defensive guy have to step in, yet they keep on ticking. Good teams don't find excuses, bad teams and apologists go looking for them.
 

Stoneman89

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Given the wind conditions I knew it was going to be hard to hold the lead. The wind was drastically impacting field position in the game, all game. The Esks offense first 6 starts in the game took place from the average own 13yd line. That's a recipe for trouble usually. The offense valiantly got the ball out of trouble. Its hard to get a lot of TD's when you're looking at long fields a lot of the time.

They also only scored 6 points when they had the wind in the 2nd quarter, gave up 7 for a minus 1 net, and only scored 20 in regulation against a Rider defence that has given up the most points by far, and is at the bottom of most categories.
 

guymez

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Well put, and what most of us can see out there. Blake Dermott says, the lack of finish is the white elephant on the team, the thing no one talks about. The lack of mental fortitude that makes a major score out of a field goal, or turnover, which has become this teams offensive calling card the last 8-9 games or so. The gaudy offensive stats on this team are changing, and really, are not helping much. When you drive down the field and consistently only get FG's or picks, or fumbles, something is amiss. And producing nothing but 2 and outs during crucial parts in a game is disturbing to say the least.

This team has some major issues. Kenny Stafford was never replaced as the 3rd import receiver. Their Canadian receiver talent and depth is weak, despite drafting mostly that group with their high picks the last few years.

The defensive backfield is a mess, with their safety probably the worst safety in the league right now and should not be near a CFL backfield. Marcel Young looks like he has lost a step, and Watkins ain't getting younger. Cord Parks and the other guy are mediocre. Ojo is dearly missed, as is Grymes.

I have hope for the linebacking and defensive front. Hunt looks like a keeper and if they get Jefferson back, that will be good. Willis looks like he's losing a gear.

Benefeces has to go. I now agree with Guymez. His pacifying system only works with a superb defensive line and all stars at linebacker across the board. He game plan is getting torn to shreds. Only some outstanding individual play are saving the day, in most cases, in particular, Sherrit, Hunt and Ladler.

As discussed, the return game and punt game continue to give up large chunks of field position. Hopefully we may have solved some of that if Maas ever gets his head out of the sand and plays Stoudamire, who if he still has it, can help. Shaw is crap. 31 years old and still can't produce more than a couple coffin corner kicks in a season and usually loses the yardage game.

I agree with all of this.

I especially wanted to comment on the bolded portion as its become very apparent lately. The play with Bowman (where the defender stripped him of the ball) really underscores your point.
Bowman quit on that play...it was inexcusable. He also dropped some critical balls as well. His numbers look good in the end but there are still major flaws with his game. Its representative of the offence in general.

IMO the poor coaching on both sides of the ball this season is really highlighting all the flaws on this team.
 

MoneyGuy

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Well put, and what most of us can see out there. Blake Dermott says, the lack of finish is the white elephant on the team, the thing no one talks about. The lack of mental fortitude that makes a major score out of a field goal, or turnover, which has become this teams offensive calling card the last 8-9 games or so. The gaudy offensive stats on this team are changing, and really, are not helping much. When you drive down the field and consistently only get FG's or picks, or fumbles, something is amiss. And producing nothing but 2 and outs during crucial parts in a game is disturbing to say the least.

This team has some major issues. Kenny Stafford was never replaced as the 3rd import receiver. Their Canadian receiver talent and depth is weak, despite drafting mostly that group with their high picks the last few years.

The defensive backfield is a mess, with their safety probably the worst safety in the league right now and should not be near a CFL backfield. Marcel Young looks like he has lost a step, and Watkins ain't getting younger. Cord Parks and the other guy are mediocre. Ojo is dearly missed, as is Grymes.

I have hope for the linebacking and defensive front. Hunt looks like a keeper and if they get Jefferson back, that will be good. Willis looks like he's losing a gear.

Benefeces has to go. I now agree with Guymez. His pacifying system only works with a superb defensive line and all stars at linebacker across the board. He game plan is getting torn to shreds. Only some outstanding individual play are saving the day, in most cases, in particular, Sherrit, Hunt and Ladler.

As discussed, the return game and punt game continue to give up large chunks of field position. Hopefully we may have solved some of that if Maas ever gets his head out of the sand and plays Stoudamire, who if he still has it, can help. Shaw is crap. 31 years old and still can't produce more than a couple coffin corner kicks in a season and usually loses the yardage game.

I agree on all almost counts except you can't give Benevides (your frequent intentional misspelling of his name hoping it becomes a thing is annoying) second-rate personnel in key positions and say it's on him. Coaches don't become idiots overnight. His backfield is horrible and that's on Hervey. Benevides lost key defensive players and is saddled with guys who can't cover. Hervey is mostly responsible for that. I know he'll be heavily recruiting on defence in the off season, which will come soon.

There are a number of reasons that this team is poor. Maas hasn't done a good job. I thought hiring him as head coach was a couple of years premature.
 

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They also only scored 6 points when they had the wind in the 2nd quarter, gave up 7 for a minus 1 net, and only scored 20 in regulation against a Rider defence that has given up the most points by far, and is at the bottom of most categories.

The Riders D has been playing well for quite some time and holding the team in games. The Riders D is a hell of a lot better unit than the Riders offense without their top weapon, Roosevelt.

People can disagree if they want, the numbers tell some stories. Durant hasn't been able to run successfully against any D in the league all year. But he ran for 68 yesterday and broke contain 5times and with the loss predicated on that very same thing. Unacceptable.

As mentioned the Riders had 3-4times as much rushing yards in this game than they typically gain in a game. Unacceptable.

Again look at the personnel we have on D up front and tell me they can't do a hell of a lot better than this.
At one point Sewell is heard laughing that "they can't block me" well then, instead being an ahole on the field actually do something in the game. Just to mention one. Willis played reasonably well, that's it.
 

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Where are the blake Dermott alleged quotes coming from? I don't listen to sports radio or anything like that ever. If these statements are on line or from some known source why not link them so everybody can have a read?
 

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120 yards on a whole batch of return types in the game, many of them as the Stamps kept scoring. The long one was meaningless, the Stamps let him get as far as they felt and then smothered him. Never a danger of him going all the way.

Terry Jones of the Sun nails it. Time to start calling him D'oh.


"Mental issues predominate.

This one featured return man Kenzel Doe.

Mr. D’oh was a major mess.

There’s no excuse for a coaching staff to allow a guy to get to Game 12 and have absolutely no clue of what to do back there playing this Canadian game.

There have been multiple examples going into this game, but Sunday, Mr. D’oh actually caught the punt and took it back into the end zone. Then he fumbled.

Saskatchewan recovered for the touchdown.

He was saved by a no-yards penalty.

But later in the game, Mr. D’oh didn’t give up the single that any bantam player in Canada could tell you the circumstances dictated. Instead, the Eskimos started the drive under their goalposts. Punter Grant Shaw was forced to give up a two-point safety touch.

The difference was winning the game 20-19 or going to overtime.

There’s no reason for Mr. D’oh to remain an Eskimo."


Exactly.

Seems to be a lot of dislike for this player. I dunno, on the play in question Jones mentioned(I missed it) it was a no yards call and I think Doe must've realized that and thus the free play to try to create. That said I don't like returners fiddling around in the endzone at all. Probably I would be mumbling at the TV if I had seen that. :laugh:

I'll continue to maintain fielding the ball at Mosaic on a windy day is a nightmare and players have commented on that as long as Taylor Field has existed. When the wind blows there it feels very unpredictable. I've seen a lot of entirely misjudged balls where returners have trouble gauging even where the ball is going and therefore fumbling etc.

I think where we differ on this is that in the new CFL where pretty much every hold, clip, illegal block is called is the return game has become a pedestrian state of affairs where all I really expect is nominal positive yards and not turning the ball over. I missed the play in question, didn't see it.

Gone is the day where returns were a critical part of the game and where TD's would occur a lot and be primary factors in games. Now its just try to get 10 positive yds and that's about it. The worst to me is returners losing yds on returns, fumbling, or penalty calls. Doe doing a real straight up return has minimized some of the calls the esks get on special teams.

Basically are special teams unit is not very good this year. Seems to be a lot of change in personnel and a rebuilding year for the unit. So my expectations of it I guess are not high.
 

joestevens29

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Lol. Not directly related, but I remember someone complaining one time about how Eskimo fans don't know when to cheer.

"I’m not saying it’s the fans’ fault, but I’m just saying, it would be nice if they would shut the f--- up a little bit.”

“There’s a lot of times where we can’t hear the centre. We could barely hear the snap count a couple times — a couple false starts, because guys wouldn’t know when the snap was going.
 

MoneyGuy

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Where are the blake Dermott alleged quotes coming from? I don't listen to sports radio or anything like that ever. If these statements are on line or from some known source why not link them so everybody can have a read?

I heard him on sports radio on the weekend (TSN or CHED, I don't recall). If you don't listen ever then directing you to podcast would be futile. I'm not sure how to give you the information you want other than sacrificing your principles and listening. I don't know if anyone can provide a link.
 

Gord

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Oct 9, 2005
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Yet the team down south seems to keep things together quite well. The Esks win one championship and the entire house of cards falls apart. They're not even going to make the playoffs this year.

they also didn't lose their entire coaching staff, and I bet they also didn't have one year losing so many players on one side of the ball to the NFL.
 

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I heard him on sports radio on the weekend (TSN or CHED, I don't recall). If you don't listen ever then directing you to podcast would be futile. I'm not sure how to give you the information you want other than sacrificing your principles and listening. I don't know if anyone can provide a link.

I was just asking. it wasn't mentioned where the comment had come from. How on earth would I know?

has nothing to do with principles I just find talking head pundits boring. With sports commentating and color being the worst of the lot.

The best hockey telecasts ever was the year of the CBC strike imo. They just televised the games complete with rink sounds and no commentating. it was great. I think I would pay extra to get that simple feed.
 

Stoneman89

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I agree on all almost counts except you can't give Benevides (your frequent intentional misspelling of his name hoping it becomes a thing is annoying) second-rate personnel in key positions and say it's on him. Coaches don't become idiots overnight. His backfield is horrible and that's on Hervey. Benevides lost key defensive players and is saddled with guys who can't cover. Hervey is mostly responsible for that. I know he'll be heavily recruiting on defence in the off season, which will come soon.

There are a number of reasons that this team is poor. Maas hasn't done a good job. I thought hiring him as head coach was a couple of years premature.

Would love to take credit for giving Benevedes that nickname, but someone else on here beat me to it a couple weeks ago, and several others thought it was funny. If a guy is coaching like crap, he should be entitled to have a suitable nickname. There's likely a few things that you post on here that annoy the hell out of me, but I'll take the high road. Sorry if it annoys you.:D

Benevides has a passive coaching style that doesn't seem to work with the personnel we have. I think a more aggressive style of coaching is needed to win in this league. I think he's misused a pretty decent front 4, and expecting them to get constant pressure on a QB, that usually has 6 blockers helping him out.
 
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