Elks: Edmonton Eskimos 2020

[DoyleG]

MP's comment: “The supports announced by the government are for the benefit of Canadians and the country,” Fragiskatos said.

Blurb taken right from the CRA website on eligibility for the CEWS program: Who are eligible employees:
An eligible employee is an individual employed in Canada by you (the eligible employer) during the claim period. Employee eligibility is based on whether the person is employed in Canada, not where they live.

He doesn't even know how his own programs work. Reilly is 100% correct in his statement. He is a taxpayer, and the govt does offer relief programs based on employment, not residency.

Along with the fact that such a proposal would very likely be challenged by the CFLPA, and successfully in the courts.

 

[Drivesaitl]

MP's comment: “The supports announced by the government are for the benefit of Canadians and the country,” Fragiskatos said.

Blurb taken right from the CRA website on eligibility for the CEWS program: Who are eligible employees:
An eligible employee is an individual employed in Canada by you (the eligible employer) during the claim period. Employee eligibility is based on whether the person is employed in Canada, not where they live.

He doesn't even know how his own programs work. Reilly is 100% correct in his statement. He is a taxpayer, and the govt does offer relief programs based on employment, not residency.

You're conflating. The MP is making a general comment about "for the benefit of Canadians and country". He's clearly making a nationalist comment. The type of comment that would be commonplace in American current protectionist climate. So clearly the MP is not in favor of any further bailouts of Import players. I don't see how that is unreasonable. Also, supports like the CERB for instance require people to be in the country, resident in the country, similar to any EI expectation that the person is in the country, looking for work and willing to work. I have no idea why the CEWS doesn't have similar expectation of residency and availability to work in Canada for eligible employees. Clearly the MP doesn't feel the CEWS as established is a proper use of benefits for Canadians and Country. I agree.

Next, the ridiculous situation is set out here where an import conceivably can double dip both CERB, and CEWS, and maybe get something like that stateside too. For instance Sir Vincent Rogers, who hasn't played a single game for Edmonton despite being an Eskimo for two seasons, and might never play a game here, getting paid...talking about his entitled concerns.

Lastly, it doesn't matter if Reilly, Rogers, any CFL player feel they are justified. The Optics of Pro Imports dipping down on "Emergency" funds designed for those that need it is in the view of many, appalling. Right or wrong, the CFL requires popularity to be in business. It requires good will. It requires acceptance, people liking the players and products. Even if the players are right in this, and it pisses off the public then what?

From a PR pov alone the CFL needs to get its act together here. After the request for 150M bailout frankly the league can f*** off. A lot of Canadians not making mortgage payments right now probably feeling that way.

 

[SDig14]

The CEWS doesn't have a criteria for eligible employees to be resident of Canada because the subsidy is for the employers, not the employees. The employer is an entity in Canada and they receive the subsidy.

The CEWS encourages employers to hire back their employees, whether resident of Canada or not, which helps keep business and the economy going.

There is no getting CERB and then a subsidy since the subsidy isn't an employee benefit. And in order for employees to maximize the subsidy, they have to be paying their employees 75% of their pre covid-19 wages, up to a maximum of $847 per week. And if employees do earn that, then they're no longer eligible for CERB.

 

[bellagiobob]

You're conflating. The MP is making a general comment about "for the benefit of Canadians and country". He's clearly making a nationalist comment. The type of comment that would be commonplace in American current protectionist climate. So clearly the MP is not in favor of any further bailouts of Import players. I don't see how that is unreasonable. Also, supports like the CERB for instance require people to be in the country, resident in the country, similar to any EI expectation that the person is in the country, looking for work and willing to work. I have no idea why the CEWS doesn't have similar expectation of residency and availability to work in Canada for eligible employees. Clearly the MP doesn't feel the CEWS as established is a proper use of benefits for Canadians and Country. I agree.

Next, the ridiculous situation is set out here where an import conceivably can double dip both CERB, and CEWS, and maybe get something like that stateside too. For instance Sir Vincent Rogers, who hasn't played a single game for Edmonton despite being an Eskimo for two seasons, and might never play a game here, getting paid...talking about his entitled concerns.

Lastly, it doesn't matter if Reilly, Rogers, any CFL player feel they are justified. The Optics of Pro Imports dipping down on "Emergency" funds designed for those that need it is in the view of many, appalling. Right or wrong, the CFL requires popularity to be in business. It requires good will. It requires acceptance, people liking the players and products. Even if the players are right in this, and it pisses off the public then what?

From a PR pov alone the CFL needs to get its act together here. After the request for 150M bailout frankly the league can f*** off. A lot of Canadians not making mortgage payments right now probably feeling that way.

Can’t double dip. CERB has a residency requirement. CEWS is an employer assisted program. So there is no direct assistance from the govt to the players. There are many non residents working in Canada whose employers are receiving CEWS, and then are able to pay them their salary. CFL players not born in Canada are no different. It’s a different argument if you want to talk about whether the CFL should receive any money at all. That’s fair game. But In this particular statement from the MP, employees who pay tax in Canada should be treated the same, regardless of where they are from, just like their employer assistance policy states.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

On principle, import players who don't reside in Canada year round probably shouldn't be getting bailout money from Canadian taxpayers. Theoretically the season could be cancelled and the bottom 10%-20% of imports might retire/get cut without ever playing another CFL game. They don't need a taxpayer-funded parting gift.

But at the same time, the government has just spent the last two months handing out inconceivable amounts of cash to all sorts of other groups of people who shouldn't be getting it either. Foreign students, WHO, UN, foreign bioweapon labs...none of that provides one iota of benefit to Canadians. An appreciable number of Canadians do enjoy the CFL though, who comparatively is asking for cup-holder change. The deficit is expected to be in the trillions this year...is tacking on an extra 0.015% to save a Canadian cultural institution really the worst thing in the world?

I'll be blunt here, this probably gets rubber stamped like everything else if not for one crucial detail: the CFL's main demographic is 30+ year old white men, a large portion of whom reside in the prairie provinces. The federal government could not care less about that demographic, most of whom do not and likely will not ever vote for the federal Liberals. Politicians will not do anything that doesn't help them score cheap political points or buy future votes.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Can’t double dip. CERB has a residency requirement. CEWS is an employer assisted program. So there is no direct assistance from the govt to the players. There are many non residents working in Canada whose employers are receiving CEWS, and then are able to pay them their salary. CFL players not born in Canada are no different. It’s a different argument if you want to talk about whether the CFL should receive any money at all. That’s fair game. But In this particular statement from the MP, employees who pay tax in Canada should be treated the same, regardless of where they are from, just like their employer assistance policy states.

I do thank you for the rebuttals in this, and the clarification. I'm wrong. I'll state that. I am ardently fiscal conservative, somewhat triggered about the bailouts now and upcoming, and how a lot of this could have all been mitigated by closing borders, quarantines etc. It does trigger me that the CFL asked for 150M. They got 5m from CEWS is my understanding and they should call it a day at that. Its simply bad PR to ask for too much, and especially during a pandemic, a global economic collapse, and where people are just trying to get by.

 

[joestevens29]

I do thank you for the rebuttals in this, and the clarification. I'm wrong. I'll state that. I am ardently fiscal conservative, somewhat triggered about the bailouts now and upcoming, and how a lot of this could have all been mitigated by closing borders, quarantines etc. It does trigger me that the CFL asked for 150M. They got 5m from CEWS is my understanding and they should call it a day at that. Its simply bad PR to ask for too much, and especially during a pandemic, a global economic collapse, and where people are just trying to get by.

What made matters worse for me is them not having a real plan to why they need 150m. After that the more I dug the more I realized just how bad of an ask it was.

It's common practice to ask for inflated numbers, but usually you have a breakdown of it all and inflated those broken down numbers. No the CFL just had one inflated number with no answers. If they would've had that number broken down into smaller numbers, then maybe the government would have looked at it and said no it's a bit high and countered. Now all they have done is wasted people's time.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Darkwinter]

for all the shit china has done to hurt mankind maybe they should foot the bill

 

[MoontoScott]

Not to worry, Greta will be on CNN tonight as a "virus expert" so we can ask her about the proposed CFL bailout package at the same time. All the world's problems can be handled at once.

 

[samiam]

Not really sure what my opinion on the matter is, but if Mike Riley has been a Canadian tax payer for the last 10+ years, and has been making full contributions to EI and CPP etc, and all of the other related programs, then why shouldn’t he be entitled to any sort of CERB benefit? I’m pretty sure, that he’s paid more in Canadian taxes over the past 5+ years, then any member on this board.

 

[MoontoScott]

Not really sure what my opinion on the matter is, but if Mike Riley has been a Canadian tax payer for the last 10+ years, and has been making full contributions to EI and CPP etc, and all of the other related programs, then why shouldn’t he be entitled to any sort of CERB benefit? I’m pretty sure, that he’s paid more in Canadian taxes over the past 5+ years, then any member on this board.

Agreed, he has been a contributor for many years and is deserving.

How many born and bred Canadians who have cheated on their taxes for years will line up for the new benefits without so much as a blush?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Agreed, he has been a contributor for many years and is deserving.

How many born and bred Canadians who have cheated on their taxes for years will line up for the new benefits without so much as a blush?

Melnyk probably applied even though he only lives here just enough to maintain residency.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[McTedi]

Ugh, maybe I guess. Seeing as how nobody can go to games, does it really matter? I hope the CFL can survive this and I would watch the Esk games for sure. But I would imagine the lack of interest this year would be at an all time high, especially if they are up against the other sports firing up as well. Part of the charm of the CFL is going to live games which are relatively cheap and provide a good atmosphere.

 

[bone]

Ugh, maybe I guess. Seeing as how nobody can go to games, does it really matter? I hope the CFL can survive this and I would watch the Esk games for sure. But I would imagine the lack of interest this year would be at an all time high, especially if they are up against the other sports firing up as well. Part of the charm of the CFL is going to live games which are relatively cheap and provide a good atmosphere.

I'd still watch as CFL (at least the Esks) are my solid number 2 favorite to watch, though I have on occasion skipped watching an Oilers game live to watch the Esks, but that's likely moreso a byproduct of the only time both teams are playing are when the Esks are into the playoff drive and the Oilers are just starting the season.

NHL playoff games (with Oilers) will certainly trump CFL games, and probably also Raptor playoff games will trump CFL games.

It will be funny to see how the networks try to cover all of this though. We could realistically see all four major sports leagues playing at the same time. I know October also has this, but October usually would only be startup for NHL/NBA while NFL is mid-season and MLB playoffs. This year, we could see the NHL cup final, NBA finals, late season penant races in MLB and NFL startup all at the same time.

After months of networks having nothing to show, they are going to be swamped trying to cover everything.

 

[MoontoScott]

David Braley was in the news 2 days ago and warned that if there was no CFL season in 2020 then he had his doubts that the league would return at all. I would consider him to be the ultimate expert on the CFL based on his long experience and the fact that he has put his money where his mouth is--- for decades. Nobody is a bigger expert on the CFL than Braley.

Let's hope we hear something positive soon. I truly believe that when it comes to sporting events and so many other things in life we are just going to have to bite the bullet and carry on.

Someone once asked Winston Churchill if you could live to be 100 if you gave up most of your earthly pleasures to which he replied-- yes but it would seem like 500.

 

[bellagiobob]

David Braley was in the news 2 days ago and warned that if there was no CFL season in 2020 then he had his doubts that the league would return at all. I would consider him to be the ultimate expert on the CFL based on his long experience and the fact that he has put his money where his mouth is--- for decades. Nobody is a bigger expert on the CFL than Braley.

Let's hope we hear something positive soon. I truly believe that when it comes to sporting events and so many other things in life we are just going to have to bite the bullet and carry on.

Someone once asked Winston Churchill if you could live to be 100 if you gave up most of your earthly pleasures to which he replied-- yes but it would seem like 500.

I think they will get between 30-50M in assistance, and play an 8 game/team schedule in front of no fans, won’t make any money, but will be able to scrape by enough to survive.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Kyle McMahon]

It doesn't make any sense that the league would simply go away permanently. Obviously there is still huge demand for the product. Millions watching on TV, tens of thousands in attendance. Pretty sure it's just posturing to try and spook the government into giving them as much money as they can get. Are all those stadiums on the prairies just going to sit empty with thousands of people wishing they still had football? Nah. Maybe there'd be some sort of restructuring and less money involved, but it's not just going to vanish.

 

[Stoneman89]

Empty stadiums and arenas are the likley scenarios for the next 2-3 years, so it's tough to believe the CFL can survive this.

 

[Stoneman89]

Had to love the Giz!

 

[bellagiobob]