Proposal: Edmonton-Calgary

[Junohockeyfan]

There is no path to a Lucic trade. None. Oilers fans who think he can be traded for Neal are completely delusional.

The only way he is traded is to a low budget team who takes him at 50% caphit plus major sweeteners (1st round pick at a minimum).

This thread should be closed because there is zero chance Looch is traded for Neal this offseason. I think all reasonable Oilers fans accept this correct?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Lucic's NMC makes his contract worse. Especially with an expansion draft coming up.

I’ve shot this down ad nauseam. Most teams that went 7-3-1 couldn’t even use all 7 spots effectively. That’s how guys like Phil DiGiuseppe, Mark Letestu, Antoine Vermette, Jordan Martinook, Ryan Spooner, Tyler Ennis, Curtis Lazar, Tomas Jurco, Rocco Grimaldi, Scott Hartnell, Brett Ritchie, Zack Smith, Scott Laughton, Jannik Hansen, Ryan Reaves, Matt Martin, Markus Granlund, and Joel Armia ended up protected.

If a team is going to go 8 skaters then sure you don’t want a NMC tying up your forwards but given that most teams went 7-3-1, losing a slightly better third liner or 4/5 defenceman is nothing to lose sleep over and that 7th forward spot isn’t going toward protecting anyone worth a damn in most cases anyway. Everyone has to lose someone they’d otherwise rather not, and there’s always the ability to negotiate.

 

[Soundwave]

I’ve shot this down ad nauseam. Most teams that went 7-3-1 couldn’t even use all 7 spots effectively. That’s how guys like Phil DiGiuseppe, Mark Letestu, Antoine Vermette, Jordan Martinook, Ryan Spooner, Tyler Ennis, Curtis Lazar, Tomas Jurco, Rocco Grimaldi, Scott Hartnell, Brett Ritchie, Zack Smith, Scott Laughton, Jannik Hansen, Ryan Reaves, Matt Martin, Markus Granlund, and Joel Armia ended up protected.

If a team is going to go 8 skaters then sure you don’t want a NMC tying up your forwards but given that most teams went 7-3-1, losing a slightly better third liner or 4/5 defenceman is nothing to lose sleep over and that 7th forward spot isn’t going toward protecting anyone worth a damn in most cases anyway. Everyone has to lose someone they’d otherwise rather not, and there’s always the ability to negotiate.

I think Lucic would agree to be unprotected anyway. Seattle is a market he and his family expressly want to be in, probably even moreso than Vancouver. It's close to family but there's more anonymity in Seattle. No one's bugging you at the movie theater or grocery store in Seattle.

 

[McSuper]

Yeah I was off, but it's still a significant difference ... $7 million dollars isn't chump change to a cap floor team.

Lucic's bonus has already been paid on July 1.

1) Lucic bonus hasn’t been paid yet it is due on the 17th of July .
2) Neal is still cheaper to buy out . Also look at the shots each player generated over this past season

 

[Soundwave]

1) Lucic bonus hasn’t been paid yet it is due on the 17th of July .
2) Neal is still cheaper to buy out . Also look at the shots each player generated over this past season

1.) I don't think that's the case, McDavid has a bonus due on 17th July, that's probably where Stauffer got confused, Lucic's bonus is July 1. Even if it isn't that's a whopping 4 days away, whoopity doo.

2.) Buying out either is not ideal. It's a cap penality for 3-4 additional years depending on when you do it.

I think both teams have to look at other avenues. Salary retention + giving up a pick makes far more sense, especially given Lucic's front loaded + bonus laden contract.

I think both Lucic and Neal will be dumped next summer and both teams will have to retain salary to do so.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

1.) I don't think that's the case, McDavid has a bonus due on 17th July, that's probably where Stauffer got confused, Lucic's bonus is July 1. Even if it isn't that's a whopping 4 days away, whoopity doo.

2.) Buying out either is not ideal. It's a cap penality for 3-4 additional years depending on when you do it.

I think both teams have to look at other avenues. Salary retention + giving up a pick makes far more sense, especially given Lucic's front loaded + bonus laden contract.

I think both Lucic and Neal will be dumped next summer and both teams will have to retain salary to do so.

Oilers have no choice but to look at other avenues.

Flames have the buyout option. 2 million per over 6 years is very manageable with a cap ceiling of 82+ million. Its better than coughing up 1st round picks to dump Looch. Flames are not trading Neal this offseason.

 

[Soundwave]

Oilers have no choice but to look at other avenues.

Flames have the buyout option. 2 million per over 6 years is very manageable with a cap ceiling of 82+ million. Its better than coughing up 1st round picks to dump Looch. Flames are not trading Neal this offseason.

At 1.67 million actual salary per, I doubt the cost is a 1st rounder, probably a 2nd + prospect, granted the Oilers 2nd is likely to closer to a 1st anyway.

1.67 million is 4th line money these days, the average forward salary is $3+ million.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

At 1.67 million actual salary per, I doubt the cost is a 1st rounder, probably a 2nd + prospect, granted the Oilers 2nd is likely to closer to a 1st anyway.

1.67 million is 4th line money these days, the average forward salary is $3+ million.

For 4 years if Lucic??? GMs will charge Holland a bounty for the opportunity to offload that toxic contract and useless ahl quality player who has a nmc. They would buy him out ala Marleau / Sekera

 

[Soundwave]

For 4 years if Lucic??? GMs will charge Holland a bounty for the opportunity to offload that toxic contract and useless ahl quality player who has a nmc. They would buy him out ala Marleau.

It would be 3 years remaining at 1.67 million average actual salary per year.

I don't even think he plays the final year either, he has a bonus on July 1 of that year, then only $1 million in actual salary that final season, odds are he just retires at that point (Kipprusoff basically did this too, his actual salary for playing was so low that he just retired instead of play).

 

[thaman8765678]

How does the McDavid trade thread get locked and this doesn't? The trades are equally as ridiculous.

Every Lucic trade thread should be locked that doesn't include at minimum an unprotected 1st round pick as part of the package.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

How does the McDavid trade thread get locked and this doesn't? The trades are equally as ridiculous.

Every Lucic trade thread should be locked that doesn't include at minimum an unprotected 1st round pick as part of the package.

Its mind boggling. lol

Almost trolling.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

It would be 3 years remaining at 1.67 million average actual salary per year.

I don't even think he plays the final year either, he has a bonus on July 1 of that year, then only $1 million in actual salary that final season, odds are he just retires at that point (Kipprusoff basically did this too, his actual salary for playing was so low that he just retired instead of play).

3M cap hit for 3 years for a useless player like Looch will cost at least a 1st. No one is doing the Oilers a favor. See what 1 year of buying out Marleau cost the Leafs.

 

[Soundwave]

How does the McDavid trade thread get locked and this doesn't? The trades are equally as ridiculous.

Every Lucic trade thread should be locked that doesn't include at minimum an unprotected 1st round pick as part of the package.

Because a lot of 12 year olds apparently don't understand how NHL contracts work and are acting hysterical.

The Leafs 1st rounder is more likely to be close to a 2nd round pick anyway, that's a 100 point team even with Matthews missing 20 games and Nylander missing 3 months and they were in direct and clear cap problems with RFA signings, neither the Oilers or for that matter the Flames will be in that position with either the Lucic or Neal contract.

 

[Soundwave]

3M cap hit for 3 years for a useless player like Looch will cost at least a 1st. No one is doing the Oilers a favor. See what 1 year of buying out Marleau cost the Leafs.

3M cap hit is only relevant if you plan to spend to the cap ... if you're not, then basically it's $1.67 million real money, if anything that difference is good for your owner because it gets you to the cap floor for cheaper.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Because a lot of 12 year olds apparently don't understand how NHL contracts work and are acting hysterical.

The Leafs 1st rounder is more likely to be close to a 2nd round pick anyway, that's a 100 point team even with Matthews missing 20 games and Nylander missing 3 months and they were in direct and clear cap problems with RFA signings, neither the Oilers or for that matter the Flames will be in that position with either the Lucic or Neal contract.

The Leafs rid themselves of a 4.5x5 boat anchor and all it cost them was Connor Brown.

 

[Soundwave]

The Leafs rid themselves of a 4.5x5 boat anchor and all it cost them was Connor Brown.

The Marleau situation was fairly unique in that he didn't want to play for Carolina (or anyone but San Jose), so you're asking a team to literally pay for a player that isn't even going to play for them, in that case the owner has a right to ask what's in it for them.

Lucic at 1.67 million on the other hand ... I'd be fine having him on my team at that price range (or a Ryan Reaves), if you're not spending to the cap what difference does the cap hit make.

The league has gotten soft, but it's still not that soft, as pillowy soft teams like Calgary and Tampa showed in the playoffs.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

3M cap hit is only relevant if you plan to spend to the cap ... if you're not, then basically it's $1.67 million real money, if anything that difference is good for your owner because it gets you to the cap floor for cheaper.

You fail to understand how business works. No GM is trading for Looch without a massive sweetener. Even at 50% cap the sweetener is gonna be huge because you are taking him for 3 years. You are taking his nmc off the Oilers hands.

No one is doing it without a 1st+. Because after the trade they are buying out Looch.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The Marleau situation was fairly unique in that he didn't want to play for Carolina (or anyone but San Jose), so you're asking a team to literally pay for a player that isn't even going to play for them, in that case the owner has a right to ask what's in it for them.

Again you miss the point. The deal was for Carolina to take Marleau and buy him out. 1 year. Anyone taking Looch is taking 3 years of a buyout and absorbing a multi year (6)caphit.

 

[Soundwave]

Again you miss the point. The deal was for Carolina to take Marleau and buy him out. 1 year. Anyone taking Looch is taking 3 years of a buyout and absorbing a multi year (6)caphit.

To play on their roster, that's a big difference. For 1.67-2 million I wouldn't mind having a player like Lucic or Reaves on my roster at all, the league is still not women's hockey or ice capades, especially not in the playoffs, as Tampa and Calgary found out the hard way in the playoffs.

You can't be that soft, I still would not build a team nowadays that's all a bunch of soft finesse players. People may say enforcers are a dying breed, but for that salary range I still got time for someone like that on my 4th line.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

To play on their roster, that's a big difference. For 1.67-2 million I wouldn't mind having a player like Lucic or Reaves on my roster at all, the league is still not women's hockey, especially not in the playoffs, as Tampa and Calgary showed in the playoffs.

You can't be that soft, I still would not build a team nowadays that's all a bunch of soft finesse players.

No one is holding ont a guy who can’t skate, can’t pass, is a total liability on the ice. Those days are over. Lucic gets bought out promptly and the team is rid of him and his nmc. No brainer.

You have to be able to skate!!!!

 

[Soundwave]

No one is holding ont a guy who can’t skate, can’t pass, is a total liability on the ice. Those days are over. Lucic gets bought out promptly and the team is rid of him and his nmc. No brainer.

I'd be willing to bet that Lucic probably would've been more noticeable in that Avalanche series than what ever the f*** it was that Neal was doing.

Colorado ran Calgary's show phyiscally the moment I believe it was Zadorov nailed Tkachuk back into 2004 and after that there was very little fight or push back from the Flames. Tkachuk shrank and basically did nothing the rest of the series and the Avalanche players basically saw a green light to do whatever they pleased with Gaudreau.

Yes the game has changed, but not entirely because Calgary and Tampa also illustrate the flip side of what you get when you are as soft a toilet paper and how things can change very quickly in the playoffs.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I'd be willing to bet that Lucic probably would've been more noticeable in that Avalanche series than what the **** it was that Neal was doing.

Colorado ran Calgary's show phyiscally the moment I believe it was Zadorov nailed Tkachuk back into 2004 and after that there was very little fight or push back from the Flames.

Yes the game has changed, but not entirely because Calgary and Tampa also illustrate the flip side of what you get when you are as soft a toilet paper and how things can change very quickly in the playoffs.

Biggest change in the game is speed. If you can’t skate you are a complete liability. See Alzner. Lucic would play less than 6 minutes a night because of his short comings. He would be in the ahl... except you can’t demote him. Why?? NMC!! lol

It would take a massive sweetener to dump him. Massive!

I was right about Sekera as a capdump buyout and i am right about this!!!

 

[Soundwave]

Biggest change in the game is speed. If you can’t skate you are a complete liability. See Alzner. Lucic would play less than 6 minutes a night because of his short comings. He would be in the ahl... except you can’t demote him. Why?? NMC!! lol

It would take a massive sweetener to dump him. Massive!

I was right about Sekera as a capdump buyout and i am right about this!!!

The playoffs were not really a speed game though. Again as Tampa and Calgary found out the hard way, in the playoffs the pace of the game is basically the same as it was 3-4 years ago still.

All that fancy pants wide open skating and razzle dazzle hockey is nice to watch, but in the playoffs the refs do not want to call penalties and things change real quick when you are allowed to clutch/grab/elbow/smash players.

In the playoffs the refs basically tell the players they have to enforce their own crap.

In *that* situation, I'd rather have a Lucic on my roster than a James Neal. If that's gonna be how the game is played, then I'd rather have someone to hammer Zadorov through the boards for walloping Tkachuk than throw Neal over the boards to do a grand total of nothing.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

The playoffs were not really a speed game though. Again as Tampa and Calgary found out the hard way, in the playoffs the pace of the game is basically the same as it was 3-4 years ago still.

All that fancy pants wide open skating and razzle dazzle hockey is nice to watch, but in the playoffs the refs do not want to call penalties and things change real quick when you are allowed to clutch/grab/elbow/smash players.

In the playoffs the refs basically tell the players they have to enforce their own crap.

lol

Let’s agree on this...

This thread is about Neal for Looch this offseason. Calgary is not stupid. They won’t make a dumb trade like that because they will give Neal a chance to rebound after 1 bad season.

Therefore end thread.

 

[Soundwave]

lol

Let’s agree on this...

This thread is about Neal for Looch this offseason. Calgary is not stupid. They won’t make a dumb trade like that because they will give Neal a chance to rebound after 1 bad season.

Therefore end thread.

I don't think either is really rebounding all that much, Neal is 32, Lucic is 31, they are about what they are.

I don't think either is chemistry wise a good fit with that specific team they're on either, that happens sometimes. Some players just don't work well with a certain combination of other players.

Neal didn't really work well or look comfortable with anyone in Calgary, ditto for Lucic in Edmonton.

I wouldn't be surprised if both could do better elsewhere in a different situation, but given where they are now I don't see what is going to change that dramatically basically the same line mates.