Proposal: Edmonton-Calgary

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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You are missing the point.

IF Neal is toast after next season, the Flames will likely buy him out or demote him to the AhL until the time is right.

What they won’t do is trade him for a proven toxic capdump / contract today. That would be idiotic. Looch has nothing to do with how the Flames will handle Neal this off-season.

Obviously the Flames will hold onto him to see if he rebounds.

That buy out would be pretty ugly, at 3 years remaining, means a cap penalty for the next 6 years.

Burying him in the AHL isn't really that big of a cap savings, basically the NHL removed this loophole as the only cap savings you get really are to use on a player on a cheap contract to replace his roster spot, so you still basically are stuck with the same cap hit overall, you're just have some young player playing in the spot Neal would be in.
 

Junohockeyfan

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That buy out would be pretty ugly, at 3 years remaining, means a cap penalty for the next 6 years.

Burying him in the AHL isn't really that big of a cap savings, basically the NHL removed this loophole as the only cap savings you get really are to use on a player on a cheap contract to replace his roster spot, so you still basically are stuck with the same cap hit.

The buyout is 2M per season. Its the best buyout situation you can get. If the Oilers could buyout Looch with a hit of only 2M per they would have done it already.
 

Soundwave

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The buyout is 2M per season. Its the best buyout situation you can get. If the Oilers could buyout Looch with a hit of only 2M per they would have done it already.

For 6 years? That's a f***ing long ass time. I probably wouldn't. I'd ride out Lucic for a season more and then salary retain at that point when the actual remaining salary is very low than have a cap penalty for 3 additional years when you probably need that money elsewhere.
 

Junohockeyfan

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For 6 years? That's a ****ing long ass time. I probably wouldn't.

6 years at 2M per is very manageable and obvious. And that’s assuming Neal is toast. He has had 1 bad year and can still skate.

Looch can’t skate. He’s already proven as a capdump.

If the Oilers could buy Looch out at Naels buyout they would have this offseason


The notion of Calgary trading Neal for Looch is so idiotic it should be shut down.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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6 years at 2M per is very manageable and obvious. And that’s assuming Neal is toast. He has had 1 bad year and can still skate.

Looch can’t skate. He’s already proven as a capdump.

If the Oilers could buy Looch out at Naels buyout they would have this offseason

That buyout would be eating up a bunch of cap until McDavid is 30 years old, lol, that's insane.
 

Junohockeyfan

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That buyout would be eating up a bunch of cap until McDavid is 30 years old, lol, that's insane.
That buyout would free up 4M for a top6 winger or 3C, rather than carrying Looch on the 4th line or pressbox for 4 more years.

2M loss of capspace is minor. 6M dead cap is killer.

The notion of trading Neal for Looch is beyond stupid. Calgary’s gm is not that dumb.

Mic drop
 

Soundwave

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That buyout would free up 4M for a top6 winger or 3C, rather than carrying Looch on the 4th line or pressbox for 4 more years.

The notion of trading Neal for Looch is beyond stupid. Calgary’s gm is not that dumb.

Even if Calgary were to do it now, Neal's buyout would eat up $2 million in cap until Gaudreau is 34 years old ... lol that's insane.

I wouldn't do that.

I think retaining Lucic at 50% next summer after his bonus is paid out drops his owing salary to a paltry $1.67 million average salary remaining which is nothing at that point the Oilers can throw in a pick a move him.

I think when you're doing buy-outs with like 4 years term left, you're getting into crazy territory. But that's just me.

That's probably a better play for both teams a year from now is to retain 50%. At 50% retained Neal becomes $2.875 mill per next year and Lucic $1.67 mill per in actual salary.
 

Junohockeyfan

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Even if Calgary were to do it now, Neal's buyout would eat up $2 million in cap until Gaudreau is 34 years old ... lol that's insane.

I wouldn't do that.

I think retaining Lucic at 50% next summer after his bonus is paid out drops his owing salary to a paltry $1.67 million average salary remaining which is nothing at that point the Oilers can throw in a pick a move him.

I think when you're doing buy-outs with like 4 years term left, you're getting into crazy territory. But that's just me.

No one is taking Looch at 50%. Looch is that useless. It would take a ton of sweetener to even dump him at 3M.

Admit it - it would be the height of stupidity for the Flames to trade Neal for Looch this offseason or ever. If Neal is toast they can buy him out.

I am sure you are of sound mind to admit that Neal for Looch is idiotic for Calgary this offseason. Right???
 

Soundwave

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No one is taking Looch at 50%. Looch is that useless. It would take a ton of sweetener to even dump him at 3M.

Admit it - it would be the height of stupidity for the Flames to trade Neal for Looch this offseason or ever. If Neal is toast they can buy him out.

I am sure you are of sound mind to admit that Neal for Looch is idiotic for Calgary this offseason.

His actual salary is only $1.67 million @50% retained next summer.

Neal is $2.87 million @50% retained next summer.

I suspect both teams are gonna try to unload both guys then.

Cap hit means jack shit to a cap floor team. If anything it's attractive to have a higher cap hit versus actual salary because it's basically a way for a cheap owner to get to the cap floor without actually paying the real dollar amount.
 

Junohockeyfan

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His actual salary is only $1.67 million @50% retained next summer.

Neal is $2.87 million @50% retained next summer.

I suspect both teams are gonna try to unload both guys then.

Cap hit means jack **** to a cap floor team.

So you don’t want to admit that it would be idiotic for Calgary to make the Neal for Looch trade?? Hahahahahaha

Dumping cap cost the Leafs a 1st for only 1 year of Marleau. 4 years of Looch... good lord.
 

Soundwave

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So you don’t want to admit that it would be idiotic for Calgary to make the Neal for Looch trade?? Hahahahahaha

I think both teams are in tough with both of these contracts. I think Neal's is worse in some ways because there's a good fat chunk of extra actual money owing to Neal going forward. The Flames should have front loaded this contract, not doing so will be a mistake.

If they're both going to play as they did last year, I'd rather have Lucic because at least you get some physicality out of it, but with either player I'd likely look at dumping in summer 2020 with retained salary.
 

Junohockeyfan

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I think both teams are in tough with both of these contracts. I think Neal's is worse in some ways because there's a good fat chunk of extra actual money owing to Neal going forward. The Flames should have front loaded this contract, not doing so will be a mistake.

If they're both going to play as they did last year, I'd rather have Lucic because at least you get some physicality out of it, but with either player I'd likely look at dumping in summer 2020.

Well i guess I can’t convince you of the obvious... carry on! lol
 
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Soundwave

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Well i guess I can’t convince you of the obvious... carry on! lol

There's nothing that obvious about it, Neal is a terrible contract if he does not bounce back, he is probably worth less on the ice than Lucic in that case but has more actual money owed to him.

That's a bad combo.
 

Junohockeyfan

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There's nothing that obvious about it, Neal is a terrible contract if he does not bounce back, he is probably worth less on the ice than Lucic in that case but has more actual money owed to him.

That's a bad combo.

You will never get it. You are the only one who thinks the Flames should consider trading Neal for Looch. No gm would ever do something so stupid given what we know about the players and their contracts.

That’s insanity...
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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You will never get it. You are the only one who thinks the Flames should consider trading Neal for Looch. No gm would ever do something so stupid given what we know about the players and their contracts.

That’s insanity...

You guys just have a narrative you want to cling to that's already pre-decided. If you actually look at both of their contracts, you can see very clearly Neal is owed a good amount more money than Lucic, it's basically Lucic's salary + another full year's worth of actual salary + another $1 million more.

If Neal is gonna play like he did last year, a case can absolutely be made his contract is worse.

There's risk for the Oilers if they do this too, it's nothing to tap dance down the street over. If Neal plays like he did last year, you're likely stuck now with an even harder to move contract.
 

crackdown44

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Dec 1, 2017
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I mean they are both bad but imagine thinking Lucic has more value than Neal lol. Even the most irrational of Oilers fans generally admit he has the worst contract in the league
 

Soundwave

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I mean they are both bad but imagine thinking Lucic has more value than Neal lol. Even the most irrational of Oilers fans generally admit he has the worst contract in the league

That's because 90% of the people on this board don't actually look at actual salary owing on contracts or understand how business works. It's a bunch of dumb kids shooting off at each other over hyperbole, Lucic is in the same category as several deals in the NHL to boot, Eriksson, Okposo, Ladd, Neal, and there will likely be more as some other UFAs go bust.

It's not even that rare.
 

crackdown44

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Dec 1, 2017
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That's because 90% of the people on this board don't actually look at actual salary owing on contracts or understand how business works.

There are very few teams that care about actual salary owed. Most teams are trying to be competitive and care about AAV and how it pertains to the salary cap

Congrats, Lucic may have more value to Ottawa because he’s owed less real money. That’s 1 out of 31 teams. You’d still need to tie more picks to him than you’d be willing to do to get him there lol
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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There are very few teams that care about actual salary owed. Most teams are trying to be competitive and care about AAV and how it pertains to the salary cap

Congrats, Lucic may have more value to Ottawa because he’s owed less real money. That’s 1 out of 31 teams. You’d still need to tie more picks to him than you’d be willing to do to get him there lol

The types of teams you would be dumping a Lucic or Neal onto would certainly care about salary owing.

Contenders are generally tight to the cap, so they're not going to take either one period. That leaves you with the lower spending teams to deal with, and actual salary sure as f*** does matter in those cases.

And yes absolutely for a team like Ottawa, the money matters, it does for a lot of US teams too even if they won't admit it, hockey is not the hyper-lucrative sport in a lot of the non-traditional US markets and dollars spent matters.
 

crackdown44

Cold milk cools down hot food
Dec 1, 2017
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The types of teams you would be dumping a Lucic or Neal onto would certainly care about salary owing.

Contenders are generally tight to the cap, so they're not going to take either one period. That leaves you with the lower spending teams to deal with, and actual salary sure as **** does matter in those cases.

Thank you for repeating what I said?
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Thank you for repeating what I said?

I don't agree with your point in general that "dollars spent don't really matter". A lot of US teams don't have the rosy finances people on this board think they do and dollars spent definitely do matter.
 
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93oilerfan93

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Apr 2, 2018
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hes owed $3 million for this season and his bonus next year is $3 million

So when July 2 of 2020 hits

Milan Lucic is owed $10 Million in real dollars over 3 years

2020/2021 base $1.0 Million
2021/2022 SB $2.5 Base $2.5 Million
2022/2023 SB $3.0 base $1.0

After Lucic gets his signing bonus in 2022, he will more than likely call it a career and for go the $1.0 million base

So in all honesty its more 3 years at $9 Million owed
 

blankall

Registered User
Jul 4, 2007
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If he doesn't bounce back next year, his contract is worse than Lucic's no doubt about it.

More money owed makes it harder to move in that case.

He was horrendous in the playoffs too.
Lucic's NMC makes his contract worse. Especially with an expansion draft coming up.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Lucic's NMC makes his contract worse. Especially with an expansion draft coming up.

The funny thing about that is that the expansion team is basically exactly where he wants to go to ... Seattle area. So in this case I don't think it's as big of an issue, he has to list 8-10 teams he will accept a trade to starting that season anyway and likely Seattle is on the list.
 

93oilerfan93

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Apr 2, 2018
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Lucic's NMC makes his contract worse. Especially with an expansion draft coming up.

Lucic is from vancouver, he's already made it known he'd like to go home, seattle is close to vancouver, he would waive to go to seattle so the NMC i can 99% say won't be an issue but Seattle will more than likely not pick him up as in the league nobody take on bad contracts for free, so he'll waive, besides that will be part of any trade with any team if lucic gets traded

People are making to big a deal of the NMC, I'd get it if it was an eastern expansion team but its seattle its right beside were he wants to go lol
 

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