Proposal: Edmonton & Arizona

ConnorMcNugesaitl

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Sep 23, 2012
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I don’t think you’d like the price on Garland.

Is Koskinen really fine as a 1A/1B? Edmonton should be a perennial Cup contender and needs to start winning championships soon. Accepting less should not be an option.

I know Smith is really hot right now. As a Coyotes fan I know how far a hot Smith can drag a team. It’s really something to behold. I also know it doesn’t last with Smith. And at 39 years old, I’d be worried that he might cool off just at the worst possible time.

Smith coming back down to earth after the TDL but before the playoffs would be a disaster for Edmonton. They’d then squander yet another of a finite number of years in which they should be winning championships with McDavid and Draisaitl.

If I were an Oilers fan, I would NOT be comfortable allowing my fate to depend on Smith and Koskinen. Not when they’ve been blessed with McDavid and Draisaitl.

But that’s just me. :)

I'm not either but it is what it is, they don't have the cap space or assets to be true contenders this year regardless if it's Smith, Koskinen or Kuemper in goal so just enjoying good Smith while he's here.
 

DingDongCharlie

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Sep 12, 2010
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I like this. I'd accept for Edmonton. We need to sign both Barrie and Larsson and if moving Bear makes that more plausible (needs wise) I'm good with that. I think Holland see's the importance of signing Larsson and Barrie. Plus we have Bouchard needing a full time spot next year and hugely upgrade on Koskinen. Demers is ok for playoff depth/serviceable bottom pairing D at this point, expiring contract. Done deal for me.
 
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DingDongCharlie

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Sep 12, 2010
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Bear is the best player in this deal. While Edmonton DOES need an upgrade in goal (Koskinen) and Kuemper is definitely an upgrade, he is always hurt or so it seems.

I'd aim for a healthier goalie with similar numbers.

Kuemper is the best player in the deal don't kid yourself. Yes there's injury concerns and only 1 year remaining but he's the best player in the deal.
 
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FightingIrish17

Registered User
Jun 13, 2013
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I don’t think you’d like the price on Garland.

Is Koskinen really fine as a 1A/1B? Edmonton should be a perennial Cup contender and needs to start winning championships soon. Accepting less should not be an option.

I know Smith is really hot right now. As a Coyotes fan I know how far a hot Smith can drag a team. It’s really something to behold. I also know it doesn’t last with Smith. And at 39 years old, I’d be worried that he might cool off just at the worst possible time.

Smith coming back down to earth after the TDL but before the playoffs would be a disaster for Edmonton. They’d then squander yet another of a finite number of years in which they should be winning championships with McDavid and Draisaitl.

If I were an Oilers fan, I would NOT be comfortable allowing my fate to depend on Smith and Koskinen. Not when they’ve been blessed with McDavid and Draisaitl.

But that’s just me. :)
1) You're right about Smith. Edmonton needs an upgrade but not at the cost of Bear. The analytics on Bear are *outstanding* and he's only 23. Bear alone is worth far more than a goalie (and I really like Kuemper).
2) Koskinen has a .925 sv% since Smith has come back. He's a fine 1A/1B when he doesn't have to carry the entire load. Again, Edmonton would like to improve here but not at the cost of Bear.
3) "I don’t think you’d like the price on Garland." --> I don't think you'll have a say if it's an offer sheet. I can't imagine Arizona wants to spend big bucks during the COVID era of revenue losses.
 

Homesick

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Aug 2, 2005
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I'm shocked that this thread made two pages. Usually balanced trade proposals die right away.

As an Oilers fan it would sting to lose Bear as he has some potential and a local favourite but a Kuemper/Smith tandem is pretty solid. Don't think it would hurt having Bouchard on the 3rd pair
 

rockinghockey

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Oct 22, 2008
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If you switched Jones with Bear I'd say yes but you don't need another LD and we do need RD.. our LD is deep for next season.. Nurse, Klef, Jones, Samo, Broberg, Russel and the guy we just sent back to the taxi squad (sorry, blanked... big Swede or Finn). Our RD right now is Bear and Bouchard.

How does Barrie for Kuemper straight up sound? I'd do that yesterday!
You don’t move Barrie when we are in the playoffs even if he is not the best defensively.
I am not as high on Bear like most, I would send Bear and Jones for this deal would they take Turris also
 

McVespa99

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May 13, 2007
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i don't think Bear is enough to get Keumper alone, than you add in the cost to take on Koskinen's deal plus Demers with retention.
Edmonton adds alot here IMO

That may be true if it were not for Keumpers injury issues. I actually think this is pretty fair.
 

TFHockey

The CEO of 7-8-0
May 16, 2014
7,061
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Edmonton
Kuemper is the best player in the deal don't kid yourself. Yes there's injury concerns and only 1 year remaining but he's the best player in the deal.

I know the guy is a legit #1 goalie, but I can't call him the best player when I have no faith he can play a full season.. like ever. Such a damn shame.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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I know the guy is a legit #1 goalie, but I can't call him the best player when I have no faith he can play a full season.. like ever. Such a damn shame.
This reaction seems overblown. Kuemper had a bad injury this year that’s been exasperated by the condensed nature of the schedule. He had a bad injury last year but was back before the playoffs. I’m not aware of a disastrous injury history prior? Antti Raanta has a MUCH bigger injury problem.

I think there’s only 25, or so, goalies with more starts than Kuemper since 2017-2018. And Kuemper didn’t begin that season as the starting goalie. He took the job from Raanta that year.

Kuemper has had some injury issues. But I don’t think it justifies melodramatic exaggerations like I’m seeing creep up in this thread. It’s a factor for sure. But it’s not what defines him like it is with Raanta. It’s not even close.
 
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Moose and Squirrel

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Jan 15, 2021
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There's kinda no such thing.

If you look at NHL goaltenders from 2017-2018 to today, with greater than 40 games played, there none with a better SV% than Darcy Kuemper. Zero guys with a better SV%. What about GAA for the same criteria? Two guys better. Rask by 0.01 goals against per game, and Bishop by 0.02 goals against per game. That's it.

And as injury prone as he is, he's still top 30 for all goalies in games played over that span.

this seems like kind of an odd cherry to pick. so, for the last 4 years, with at least 40 games played... so, and avg of 10 games per year?
sorry, I like Kuemper, but if he can't stay on the ice, which he hasn't shown he can, he's not worth a ton.

this trade feels like it's saying what Kuemper would get if he were a healthy player.. which would be more in line with the value being floated. but, unfortunately, he's not a regularly healthy player
 
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rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
96,890
45,265
A Rockwellian Pleasantville
this seems like kind of an odd cherry to pick. so, for the last 4 years, with at least 40 games played... so, and avg of 10 games per year?
sorry, I like Kuemper, but if he can't stay on the ice, which he hasn't shown he can, he's not worth a ton.

this trade feels like it's saying what Kuemper would get if he were a healthy player.. which would be more in line with the value being floated. but, unfortunately, he's not a regularly healthy player
That’s not cherry picking at all. It’s weeding the outliers. It’s guys who’ve played at least a season. Not guys with who got called up a played a few games. If you make it greater than 100 games it doesn’t change the ranking for Kuemper. Your criticism would only make sense if I was doing a less than filter. Not a greater than filter. What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense at all.
 

TFHockey

The CEO of 7-8-0
May 16, 2014
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Edmonton
This reaction seems overblown. Kuemper had a bad injury this year that’s been exasperated by the condensed nature of the schedule. He had a bad injury last year but was back before the playoffs. I’m not aware of a disastrous injury history prior? Antti Raanta has a MUCH bigger injury problem.

I think there’s only 25, or so, goalies with more starts than Kuemper since 2017-2018. And Kuemper didn’t begin that season as the starting goalie. He took the job from Raanta that year.

Kuemper has had some injury issues. But I don’t think it justifies melodramatic exaggerations like I’m seeing creep up in this thread. It’s a factor for sure. But it’s not what defines him like it is with Raanta. It’s not even close.

I hardly call my post melodramatic, if that is what you are implying. The fact Kuemper has been injured a lot in the past and is currently on the IR is definitely a fair concern when discussing his worth. Absolutely valid.
 

Moose and Squirrel

Registered User
Jan 15, 2021
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That’s not cherry picking at all. It’s weeding the outliers. It’s guys who’ve played at least a season. Not guys with who got called up a played a few games. If you make it greater than 100 games it doesn’t change the ranking for Kuemper. Your criticism would only make sense if I was doing a less than filter. Not a greater than filter. What you’re saying doesn’t make any sense at all.

so since 2017 Kuemper has played the following amount of games:
19
10
55 (this wasn't even a full season healthy)
29

so what did I say doesn't make sense?
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
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A Rockwellian Pleasantville
no, you need to realize what healthy and injury prone mean
The numbers you posted are wrong. Not even close to accurate. You seem unable to decipher them or follow the conversation, even when accurate numbers are supplied. I’m going to go ahead and add you to my ignore list and we won’t have to go through this any longer. Good luck, friend!
 

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