Edmonton-21 vs Pittsburgh-09

Discussion in 'Polls - (hockey-related only)' started by Kshahdoo, May 15, 2021.

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Are McDrai teammates as good as Crosby/Malkin ones or not?

  1. Yes, they are

    23.3%
  2. No, they are not

    76.7%
  1. bambamcam4ever 107 and counting

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    Of course the Oilers are going to be bad when those two aren't on the ice, their system is designed around maximizing McDavid's talents, and they have a former 1OA natural center who could give them depth if he centered their 3rd line, but instead is usually a winger to one of their other top centers.
     
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  2. Korg Registered User

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    Kunitz, Guerin, Cooke, Sykora, Dupuis and Fedotenko all had at least another season as top-9 players, some of them several. In 2010 Satan was good enough to play for Slovakia at the Olympics and on a line with Krejci and Lucic for the Bruins, not exactly an AHL'er. Even Talbot and Adams both had over 400 more games left in their careers, even if they were only 4th liners they played well enough in that role to keep getting jobs. Tyler Kennedy scored over 40 points a couple seasons later, which is more than half the Oilers forwards have ever scored and half the ones that have scored 40 (Turris, Neal, Ennis) are far more washed than the Pens vets were.
     
  3. Gurglesons Registered User

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    Satan was in WBS for the Pens that year.

    Tyler Kennedy was playing top six minutes most years after 09. The Pens vets were stapled to the top six lines so their numbers look way better where as Edmonton is playing all their young talent in their top six.

    That is the big issue with the comparison. PIT built their team around Crosby, Malkin, Staal and just plugged shit around them. Edmonton isn’t doing that they are regularly loading up their top six.
     
  4. Korg Registered User

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    And it will be part of their downfall, likely at the hands of my team. No skin off my back if they want to organize their lines so that they're maximizing individual trophies at the expense of team trophies.
     
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  5. The Moose is Loose Registered User

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    Oilers have the better defensive group, 09 Pens didn’t have someone currently at Nurses level as this was before Letang had developed in a #1 guy. I know Barrie has his warts but he didn’t lead all defensemen in points by accident, he’ll be a solid piece for the Oil if they can string together a run.

    I think it’s pretty easy to see the Pens had the better supporting forward cast.

    Goalies are hard to tell, but if Mike Smith can bring the form he brought to the regular season this year then I’d say he is right there with the level Fleury was on that year
     
  6. Ace of Hades #Demko4Vezina

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    Stop telling people what they have to say, mind your own business.

    Crosby and Malkin had better team-mates.

    For starters, let me know when Oilers have a Cooke-Staal-Kennedy counterpart shutdown line.
     
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  7. Empoleon8771 I apparently hit on people through PMs

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    That's really your response to that? Letang in 2009 wasn't Letang today.

    Uh Gonchar?

    Gonchar was 4th in Norris voting in 2007-2008.
     
  8. Del Preston Registered User

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    No, I don't think so. The 2009 Pens also had the experience of going to the SCF the year prior. This year's Oilers have eight regulars who have never played in a best-of-7 series in the NHL.
     
  9. Empoleon8771 I apparently hit on people through PMs

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    I'm really confused for why I'm seeing Penguins fans in here talking down that 2009 Penguins team. I just don't see a legitimate argument for the Oilers minus McDavid and Draisaitl against the 2009 Penguins minus Crosby and Malkin.

    The big difference is that the current Oilers bottom-6 is downright horrid, while the Penguins bottom-6 in 2009 was a great 3rd line and a 4th line filled with passable 4th liners. Even if you want to point to Malkin's line, Fedotenko was a former 2nd/3rd line tweener and Talbot was probably a 3rd liner at that point. I don't think Fedotenko-Talbot is a tangibly worse winger duo than something like Kahun-Puljujarvi at this point, although I think Puljujarvi will become clearly better than the other 3 in the future.

    To me, I see a strong advantage in depth forwards for the Penguins and a moderate advantage in defense for the Penguins (that 2009 Penguins team had 8 former or future top-4 defensemen). Goaltending is hard to judge, I'd take Fleury over Smith and Koskinen but Smith's also having a great year.
     
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  10. Soundwave Registered User

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    Players don't get to hire their GM (well most of the time).

    Oilers are still cleaning up from the mess left by this guy:

    [​IMG]

    He's the main differentiator here. Not any of McDavid/Crosby/Draisaitl/Malkin etc.

    The Oilers are moving in the right direction again, but Crosby/Malkin never had the worst GM in pro sports.
     
  11. Paul4587 Registered User

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    Gonchar aged well and at that point was still considered a top 5-10 dman in the league. He wasn’t a washed up 35 year old, he was still a very good 35 year old, better than either Nurse or Barrie.
     
  12. nowhereman Registered User

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    And this is why I'm no longer willing to except the "team sport" argument, when Crosby and Malkin lead the Pens to a Cup with fairly good but nowhere near great roster. In fact, if you remove the top two players from each team, it may well be the worst roster of the last twenty or so Cup-winners.

    It's now time for McDavid and Draisaitl to prove what they've got.
     
  13. The Moose is Loose Registered User

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    That’s true they did have Gonchar. But I still don’t know if I’d take that 09 Pens dcore over the current Oilers.

    Nurse has turned into an absolute workhorse this season. Barrie is having a fantastic season even if he is imperfect. The depth is having a solid defensive season, honestly it’s a strength for the Oilers which is a surprising statement.

    The desperate need better wingers and bottom 6 though, I don’t know why Holland didn’t move for a piece like Carter. I think he’ll be a huge difference maker for the Pens this run- 2 cups already and getting top 6 production from your 3rd line can catalyze a team like crazy (see the 2016 Pens haha)
     
  14. Gurglesons Registered User

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    Maybe in 08. In 09 he was largely a powerplay specialist in the playoff run because of the Ovechkin knee on knee. He was their 4th most used D at 5v5 and on the PK.

    He then fell off a cliff following 09.
     
  15. Regal Registered User

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    How are the Oilers designed around maximizing McDavid and Draisaitl any more than the Pens were around maximizing Crosby and Malkin?
     
  16. Gurglesons Registered User

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    The Pens depth is a mirage though.

    If the Pens would’ve ran say..

    Malkin - Crosby - Guerin
    Kunitz - Staal - Fedotenko.

    Is this bottom six any better than Edmonton’s?

    Cooke - Talbot - Kennedy
    Dupuis - Adams - Satan
     
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  17. Gurglesons Registered User

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    because the Pens didn’t play their 3rd beat forward at wing on their second line?
     
  18. Sidney the Kidney Missing Link

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    This is exactly it. The entire reason the Pens' forward group looks deeper is because they ran Crosby, Malkin and Staal on their own lines. If Edmonton did that with McDavid, Draisaitl and RNH, their forward depth would look very similar.
     
  19. bambamcam4ever 107 and counting

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    I don't remember Staal playing with Crosby or Malkin in the 08 or 09 playoffs. And Therrien is not a coach you pick to have guys win the scoring title. Maybe the reason Hitchcock didn't last in EDM.
     
  20. Regal Registered User

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    Do you two really think playing Staal in the top 6 or RNH in the bottom 6 would significantly change things for players at this caliber? RNH isn't anything special or really any better than Kunitz was.

    Therrien wasn't a run and gun coach, but he wasn't Lemaire, and the team wasn't particularly good at limiting chances against. I don't think the Oilers are on some other end of the spectrum in terms of their play style.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
  21. Gurglesons Registered User

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    I think that is another argument against Edmonton’s roster’s point totals. Tippett isn’t exactly an offensive heavy coach.
     
  22. Gurglesons Registered User

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    weird take.

    RNH is a 50+ pt player prior to McDavid and a 60-70 pt player with McDavid and Drai.
     
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  23. Regal Registered User

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    Kunitz was a 50 point forward before Crosby and finished top 10 in scoring one season with him. RNH has a 56 point pace this year.
     
  24. Gurglesons Registered User

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    Why are we considering what Kunitz did prior and after 2009 in this argument though?

    He had a single goal in the playoffs for PIT in 2009.
     
  25. bambamcam4ever 107 and counting

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    Therrien-coached teams very clearly limit quality of chances. And no player under him would be allowed to cherrypick like McDavid does.
     

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