Proposal: Edm vs Mtl

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Captain97

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I wouldn't do either of those trades. We are trading two of our top 5 prospects in each of them. Something I am not okay with unless the return is insanely high.
 

Goldenhands

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Oh my. So Charlie Coyle just returned a former 2nd and a 5th but RNH(who would be the Habs leading scorer) is only worth a mid 2nd? Whats Max Domi worth?

3rd line winger plus a 2nd for one of the best 2C's in the game.....yeeesh

Montreal overrates their magic beans so hard

You have no clue about that, if Drouin or Domi were playing with McDavid or Draisaitl, on a stacked first PP, their stats would be inflated too... Still, last 6 seasons, Nuge hasnt come close to be a ppg player, nothing is less sure he would be Habs best scorer... Anyway the point isnt there, I explained why the Habs wouldnt pay more than a mid second for the guy, he is just not a good fit here...
 

Homesick

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You have no clue about that, if Drouin or Domi were playing with McDavid or Draisaitl, on a stacked first PP, their stats would be inflated too... Still, last 6 seasons, Nuge hasnt come close to be a ppg player, nothing is less sure he would be Habs best scorer... Anyway the point isnt there, I explained why the Habs wouldnt pay more than a mid second for the guy, he is just not a good fit here...
You don't speak for the Habs. If the Oilers let it be known that RNH was available for a 2nd round pick I would guarantee that 30 GM's would be scrambling to get a hold of K. Gretzky

Its like saying I wouldn't pay more than a 2nd for Domi/Drouin
 
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The Moose is Loose

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You have no clue about that, if Drouin or Domi were playing with McDavid or Draisaitl, on a stacked first PP, their stats would be inflated too... Still, last 6 seasons, Nuge hasnt come close to be a ppg player, nothing is less sure he would be Habs best scorer... Anyway the point isnt there, I explained why the Habs wouldnt pay more than a mid second for the guy, he is just not a good fit here...
There is no stacked 1st PP, the PP sucks, so stop running your mouth on something you obviously don't know.
RNH spends even more time than Draisaitl with very bad wingers, and he still produces at a higher clip than any Montreal player.

I'm confused how he isn't a good fit on the team with the worst centers in the league, but I really don't care.
Your valuation of players is so bad, it's hard to tell if you're being serious or just trying to stir the pot. If RNH is worth that much, then I guess Domi and Drouin are worth a 2nd round pick at max.
 

Goldenhands

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Habs fans looking good as usual, now where is baksfamous
Cheap shot at Habs fans just because they know what they have in their hands regarding their kids... I could say the same thing about Oilers fans, they obviously have no clue about our prospects... Just watch them develop, you will see why those proposals are both ridiculous...

Also that pejorative way to denigrate a fan base is getting old, actually Oilers fans are the ones looking bad in this thread, they just underrate our top prospects big time while overvaluing their own players...
 
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TFHockey

The CEO of 7-8-0
May 16, 2014
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No he wouldn't. Both Domi and Danault are producing at a higher rate than RNH at ES with better underlying numbers. And keeping Kotkaniemi at 3C and developing him is probably priority 1 for the organization. RNH has never been a PP engine.

Both Draisaitl and RNH are not as good without McDavid. They're still really good (Draisaitl is great), but playing with the best player in the NHL tends to be better than not playing with the best player in the NHL.



1) The reigning WJC top D-man is probably Montreal's top D prospect, not Brook.

2) Ranking Jones and Bear ahead of Brook is a little homerish considering age, pedigree and general prospect rankings, but ranking Persson (who is a month younger than Nurse) as a better prospect is pretty funny.



Its ridiculous to say that the offer is an insult. Its not ridiculous to not want to trade for a player.

Can you site the source for this? Interesting if true.

In all respects and with all players if they play with worse linemates their numbers go down. Make absolutely no mistake: Draisaitl is a top 10 scorer in the league because he has the talent to be there.

RNH is having a career year. However he can be counted on to play heavy minutes at center and still produce at a 55+ point clip. He is a great two way player. He is third in scoring on the team for a reason.

I think we agree on this.

I actually don't know how these three would rate against one another. In general Oiler fans are pretty happy with the development of Jones and Bear.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
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There is no stacked 1st PP, the PP sucks, so stop running your mouth on something you obviously don't know.
RNH spends even more time than Draisaitl with very bad wingers, and he still produces at a higher clip than any Montreal player.

Almost every PP is stacked compared to the second worst PP in the NHL. Especially a team with the best player in the NHL and an above average PP.

Both Tatar and Domi produce at a higher clip than RNH. When you talk about ES, add Shaw, Danault, Byron, Gallagher and Drouin to that list. What are you on about?

And tracking shows that RNH is not the engine on Edmonton's PP.

I'm confused how he isn't a good fit on the team with the worst centers in the league, but I really don't care.
Your valuation of players is so bad, it's hard to tell if you're being serious or just trying to stir the pot. If RNH is worth that much, then I guess Domi and Drouin are worth a 2nd round pick at max.

Montreal has, in no way, shape or form, the worst centers in the league. Whether you base it on boxcar stats, newer stats, results, eye test or combination of all of those factors.
 
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Goldenhands

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There is no stacked 1st PP, the PP sucks, so stop running your mouth on something you obviously don't know.
RNH spends even more time than Draisaitl with very bad wingers, and he still produces at a higher clip than any Montreal player.

I'm confused how he isn't a good fit on the team with the worst centers in the league, but I really don't care.
Your valuation of players is so bad, it's hard to tell if you're being serious or just trying to stir the pot. If RNH is worth that much, then I guess Domi and Drouin are worth a 2nd round pick at max.
Still, again and over again, a soft playmaking center with a weak shot isnt what the Habs need, we wont trade you a first for this guy, neither we will trade you one of our top prospects, its not worth it and not a good fit, period.
 

TFHockey

The CEO of 7-8-0
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Still, again and over again, a soft playmaking center with a weak shot isnt what the Habs need, we wont trade you a first for this guy, neither we will trade you one of our top prospects, its not worth it and not a good fit, period.

And yet with all of these terrible shortcomings he has managed 53 points in 58 games.

[Insert mindless BUT ITS ALL MCDAVID comment]

Go look at his minutes.
 

The Moose is Loose

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Both Tatar and Domi produce at a higher clip than RNH. When you talk about ES, add Shaw, Danault, Byron, Gallagher and Drouin to that list. What are you on about?

Montreal has, in no way, shape or form, the worst centers in the league. Whether you base it on boxcar stats, newer stats, results, eye test or combination of all of those factors.
What the actual hell are you talking about?
RNH has more points than anyone on Montreal. Fact.
RNH has a higher PPG than anyone on Montreal. Fact.
What are you on about?
Also, I don't see why Montreal having a dogshit PP should be held against Nuge...

Also, please let me know who has a worse center group than you guys, I can see tops 2 or 3 teams being on the same tier, but I don't think its an unpopular opinion.
 

Captain Mountain

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Can you site the source for this? Interesting if true.

In all respects and with all players if they play with worse linemates their numbers go down. Make absolutely no mistake: Draisaitl is a top 10 scorer in the league because he has the talent to be there.

RNH is having a career year. However he can be counted on to play heavy minutes at center and still produce at a 55+ point clip. He is a great two way player. He is third in scoring on the team for a reason.

I think we agree on this.

I actually don't know how these three would rate against one another. In general Oiler fans are pretty happy with the development of Jones and Bear.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Not knocking RNH, but Domi has been an obvious surprise this season.

But the bigger surprise is honestly Danault. He plays really tough minutes, helps heavily tilt the ice in Montreal's favour and he's got more ES points than the likes of Tkachuk, Pavelski, Voracek, Kessel, Pastrnak, Backstrom, Taresenko, etc. And its not heavily percentage driven.

The need just isn't there.
 
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Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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What the actual hell are you talking about?
RNH has more points than anyone on Montreal. Fact.
RNH has a higher PPG than anyone on Montreal. Fact.
What are you on about?
Also, I don't see why Montreal having a dog**** PP should be held against Nuge...

Also, please let me know who has a worse center group than you guys, I can see tops 2 or 3 teams being on the same tier, but I don't think its an unpopular opinion.

PPG isn't a "clip" (your word, not mine), P/60 is since it accounts for TOI (Edmonton leans really heavily on McDavid, Draisaitl and RNH).

I just offered easily verifiable stats. And I'm not holding RNH back on Montreal's PP, I'm saying that Montreal probably scores more with a better PP. PPs need elite players. RNH isn't the primary reason Edmonton's PP is good.

And I encourage you to actually look into results, stats and, you know, actually watch Montreal play before you say they have the worst center depth in the NHL. That is not even remotely true this year. Unless you're basing your opinion on vague reputation's of names.
 

Just Linda

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Feb 24, 2018
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Nuge is much more valuable than the pieces being offered even if he does not fit an immediate need. (I'd argue he would easily be your top center but that is for Hab fans to debate). If necessary he could be flipped for a defenseman better than Nurse. As an Oiler fan I'd value Nuge a lot more than Nurse. And the premise that Nuge and Draisaitl are being propped up by McDavid are in both cases considerably exaggerated. Both players carry there own weight with or without McDavid.

Brook may be the Habs best defensive prospect but he'd likely be 5th on the Oilers behind Bouchard, Jones, Bear and Persson. The deal being offered would be like the Oilers offering Ryan McLeod, Joel Persson and a 2nd for Gallagher. I doubt many Hab fans would consider this a big win for the Habs. Persson for those who do not know has been the leading combined point getter amongst SHL defensemen for the last two years. He is a RHD that is signed for $1M.

It's fine to argue that going the prospect route may be more prudent but that is not what is being stated here. One poster said he would not trade Poehling for Nugent Hopkins and another said the offer was an insult. Both positions are flat out ridiculous.

That's not true at all about Brooks, he'd be the Oilers 2nd best D prospect, ahead of Bear and Jones. I know Persson quite well as a prospect. Also, Poehling has more value than McCloud, not sure how they become comparable for you.

I doubt very much RNH can fetch a Nurse, that value seems way off. Nurse seems underrated by much of the Oilers fan base.

But yes, I've never said RNH has less value than the alternative, only external and internal values.
 
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Legend123

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That's not true at all about Brooks, he'd be the Oilers 3rd best D prospect, ahead of Best but behind Jones. I know Persson quite well as a prospect. Also, Poehling has more value than McCloud, not sure how they become comparable for you.

I doubt very much RNH can fetch a Nurse, that value seems way off. Nurse seems underrated by much of the Oilers fan base.

But yes, I've never said RNH has less value than the alternative, only external and internal values.
He would be the second best prospect easily.
 

xNogaitx

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Nurse vs Suzuki, Primeau, Habs 1st

Or

RNH vs Poehling, Brook, Habs 2nd.

Just throwing this in the air. Is this a No from both fan base ?

The first one may be close because Nurse is a beast but 2nd one will be an easy win for MTL side.

Nurse = Young top 4 LD.

VS.

Suzuki = Projects as a 2C/ Top 6 RHSRW
Primeau = Projects as a strong starting goaltender
Habs 1st = Middle first rounder usually provide for top 6 forwards, top pairing defensemen, and strong starting goaltenders

That's a short-term win for Montreal, but a long term disaster for Montreal if all 3 players/picks pan out. Right-handed players carry more value as well.
So it's a win for Edmonton in the grand scheme of things as it alleviates their cap hell issues for now too.

RNH = Mid-twenties offensive 2C

VS.

Poehling = Projects as a strong two-way 2C, plays heavy.
Brook = Projects as a Top 4 RHSRD
Habs 2nd = Middle 2nd rounder (Usually provides for middle 6 forwards, bottom 4 defensemen, potential starting goalies)

Once again, short-term win for Montreal, long term disaster as they forgo some of their top prospects.
Also a win for Edmonton in the long run.
 

Double Dion

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Flames fan here. Loathe the Oilers. RNH is a fantastic hockey player. He's a good defensive player who I think will score 70 points in the league at some point. Not a fan of Nurse. Good skater, tough as nails, brutal defensively. Oilers fans saying he's better than Klefbom are dumb as a fence post. Klefbom is twice the player.
 

The Moose is Loose

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PPG isn't a "clip" (your word, not mine), P/60 is since it accounts for TOI (Edmonton leans really heavily on McDavid, Draisaitl and RNH).

I just offered easily verifiable stats. And I'm not holding RNH back on Montreal's PP, I'm saying that Montreal probably scores more with a better PP. PPs need elite players. RNH isn't the primary reason Edmonton's PP is good.

And I encourage you to actually look into results, stats and, you know, actually watch Montreal play before you say they have the worst center depth in the NHL. That is not even remotely true this year. Unless you're basing your opinion on vague reputation's of names.
So clip means P/60 now? Clip means PPG- this is known.

wait wait wait, but you said "Both Tatar and Domi produce at a higher clip than RNH. When you talk about ES, add Shaw, Danault, Byron, Gallagher and Drouin to that list. What are you on about?".
You said Tatar and Domi produce more, even without the ES. So basically, you just don't want to admit you were wrong about how much Domi and Tatar are producing.
Montreal scores more with a better PP? Really no shit. But they need good players to score more on the PP.

All I'm saying is RNH would be the best center (and forward really) for Montreal. You can't use actual stats to disagree, so you divert your attention to stuff like TOI (RNH should be punished for being leaned on heavily for PK apparently), and ES (RNH should be punished for being a good PP player). You're reaching to make it seem otherwise.
 

The Moose is Loose

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Nurse = Young top 4 LD.

VS.

Suzuki = Projects as a 2C/ Top 6 RHSRW
Primeau = Projects as a strong starting goaltender
Habs 1st = Middle first rounder usually provide for top 6 forwards, top pairing defensemen, and strong starting goaltenders

That's a short-term win for Montreal, but a long term disaster for Montreal if all 3 players/picks pan out. Right-handed players carry more value as well.
So it's a win for Edmonton in the grand scheme of things as it alleviates their cap hell issues for now too.

RNH = Mid-twenties offensive 2C

VS.

Poehling = Projects as a strong two-way 2C, plays heavy.
Brook = Projects as a Top 4 RHSRD
Habs 2nd = Middle 2nd rounder (Usually provides for middle 6 forwards, bottom 4 defensemen, potential starting goalies)

Once again, short-term win for Montreal, long term disaster as they forgo some of their top prospects.
Also a win for Edmonton in the long run.
I guarantee not all those prospects and picks pan out.
 

Goldenhands

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What the actual hell are you talking about?
RNH has more points than anyone on Montreal. Fact.
RNH has a higher PPG than anyone on Montreal. Fact.
What are you on about?
Also, I don't see why Montreal having a dog**** PP should be held against Nuge...

Also, please let me know who has a worse center group than you guys, I can see tops 2 or 3 teams being on the same tier, but I don't think its an unpopular opinion.
While I agree our center depth is clearly below average right now, Habs are in no hurry to make desperate moves since first, we have ton of cap space to sign one if needed on the UFA market, second , we are a young growing team (youngest team in the league) that just drafted 2 stud centers in the last 2 draft in Kotkaniemi and Poehling and third, Nuge is a playmaking center, on the soft side, with a weak shot, exactly the type of center the Habs DONT need since we are already small and lack goalscoring on the wings... Thats as simple as that, it would be much smarter to let our kids develop and follow the natural progression of the team rather than trading 1sts picks or prospects away for a guy who wont fit well in the mix anyway... A much more logical option to improve our center depth short term without giving up any assets, would be to sign a guy like E.Stall for something like 7.5M x 3, then you can move Domi back to wing and our top 6 becomes legit.. Stall is a big skilled 2-way center that fits in the mold way better than Nuge and we dont lose any assets...

Domi Stall Drouin
Tatar Danault Gallagher
Lehkonen Kotkaniemi Armia
 

The Moose is Loose

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That's not true at all about Brooks, he'd be the Oilers 2nd best D prospect, ahead of Bear and Jones. I know Persson quite well as a prospect. Also, Poehling has more value than McCloud, not sure how they become comparable for you.

I doubt very much RNH can fetch a Nurse, that value seems way off. Nurse seems underrated by much of the Oilers fan base.

But yes, I've never said RNH has less value than the alternative, only external and internal values.
He is underrated by the Oilers fan base, I've said that for the past year
 
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