Proposal: Edm vs Mtl

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Kraken Jokes

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May 28, 2010
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I'd love to have Nurse on the Habs, but I don't think the Oilers do it without at least one good roster player coming back, and the deal would likely still have to save them cap space next season.

Also, why does every Habs-Oilers thread for the last 2-3 years turn into a massive pissing contest full of hyperbole or flat-out lies about opposing players? You'd swear this was the biggest rivalry in the NHL.
 
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Kimota

ROY DU NORD!!!
Nov 4, 2005
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The main problem is that from an opposite team's perception, they see someone like RNH in a losing situation and so they would prefer going with a younger center guy like Poehling next year cause he is fresh and doesn't have that stigma of losing with him. Even if RNH is good.

But I actually think the first proposal is not that bad. Maybe change the 1st by a 2nd, maybe?
 

Fourier

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Dec 29, 2006
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The main problem is that from an opposite team's perception, they see someone like RNH in a losing situation and so they would prefer going with a younger center guy like Poehling next year cause he is fresh and doesn't have that stigma of losing with him. Even if RNH is good.

But I actually think the first proposal is not that bad. Maybe change the 1st by a 2nd, maybe?
A very reasonable post and you are probably right. But let's see how valid that thinking might be. The realistic odds of Poehling being a top 6 center in the NHL are less than 50%. Prospects have value because they are cheap and because there is a chance that they turn out better than expected. But we are talking about a late first here who is 4th on his team in scoring behind guys like Blake Lizotte. Everyone is excited by his WJHC performance which is reasonable. But he had 8 points in 7 games. At the same age Nuge played in the WJHC and had 15 points in 6 games. The year before that Nuge had 18 goals and 52 points in 62 games in the NHL and had 6 points in 8 games in the Men's WC. Anyone suggesting that an offer involving Ryan Poehling as the primary piece for Nugent Hopkins favours the Oilers let alone insults the Habs really needs to educate themselves on what players are really worth.
 

Kent Nilsson

Imagine cringing at Brock Nelson like a moron
Jan 31, 2016
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Jesus Christ Habs would be giving Poehling, Brook and a 2nd for Nudge when I would not even give Poehling for Nudge?

I am, the last thing the Habs need is a soft defensively flawed center like Nuge... I would much rather sign a guy like Stall 7,5M X 3 next summer without giving up any young assets the other way... If we cant get anything decent on the UFA market, I would just let our kids develop, Nuge doesnt really fits in the picture...

Nuge is 25 yrs old and thats the first year he is close to a ppg player while playing on a stacked PP including McDavid and Draisaitl... Im not interested by your softie...

Im pretty aware of your softie, its like he has been playing in this league forever and is only 25... We all know what he is about and what he is made of...

ayayi Habs get murdered here. OH GOD DELETE THIS THREAD FROM ME MIND!!

Hab fan here.
NO and NOT A CHANCE.

Habs fans looking good as usual, now where is baksfamous
 

McSuper

5-14-6-1
Jun 16, 2012
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I think Nuge becomes somewhat interesting to a team having big goalscoring wingers like the Jets for example since Nuge remains a good playmaker, but going to a team like MTL doesnt make any sense since a soft playmaking center with a weak shot is the last thing we need down the middle... We need goalscorers and Nuge doesnt provide that... I found both proposals to be pretty insulting so thats why Im a bit harsh here, but I sincerely have no interest at all in Nuge and the asking return for Nurse is quite ridiculous as well...

I don’t know much about the players the OP . You should admit you know nothing about RNH. Weak shot ? He got a great wrist shot . I guess all players with weak shots scores on 12% of those muffin shots .
 
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Just Linda

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Feb 24, 2018
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A very reasonable post and you are probably right. But let's see how valid that thinking might be. The realistic odds of Poehling being a top 6 center in the NHL are less than 50%. Prospects have value because they are cheap and because there is a chance that they turn out better than expected. But we are talking about a late first here who is 4th on his team in scoring behind guys like Blake Lizotte. Everyone is excited by his WJHC performance which is reasonable. But he had 8 points in 7 games. At the same age Nuge played in the WJHC and had 15 points in 6 games. The year before that Nuge had 18 goals and 52 points in 62 games in the NHL and had 6 points in 8 games in the Men's WC. Anyone suggesting that an offer involving Ryan Poehling as the primary piece for Nugent Hopkins favours the Oilers let alone insults the Habs really needs to educate themselves on what players are really worth.

Thing is though he's not the only piece listed. Brook, our top defensive prospect, is also a cost listed. I'd argue that he's a more valuable asset than Poehling (though stat watchers will disagree on points and then someone will being up his junior possession numbers and the debate gets needlessly messy).

I don't think the issue with Nuge is based on talent. I'd argue that the Nuge we get this year is partially inflated by McDavid but his previous years were underperformed due to a myriad of easily explainable reasons too. I think a 60pt pace is reasonable and a 70pt pace isn't unreasonable.

I don't even think the external value is that far off.

I think the cost to team plus two years of player control plus Habs window not being open for a few years is more why the offer is unattractive.

If Winnipeg made a similiar offer (Niku+ or Vasalainen+), I don't think many people would argue. Nuge gets put in a position that suits him (well any player really) very well where he won't carry the team but just has to play with two good wingers and no doubt puts up the production he should without the expectation of him being a 1c (but he creates a deadly top 6).

For Montreal though, Nuge doesn't accomplish any goals and the gamble exists that it does more damage long term. Montreal needs to roll the dice with its propsects. Trading away futures should be immediately rejected unless it's for a player like Nurse. Nurse and Domi occupy the same role (though with different skill sets) and so we don't need a 2c in the future. We either need a better 1c or to let Kotkaneimi become it
 

Gaud

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May 11, 2017
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Nurse vs Suzuki, Primeau, Habs 1st

Or

RNH vs Poehling, Brook, Habs 2nd.



Just throwing this in the air. Is this a No from both fan base ?

as a habs fan, i see this as "get rid of 3-4 of our top 5 prospects and a 1st and a 2nd" for a guy that should be our 2c when KK matures, and Nurse (is he even a #2? thought he was 3-4)
in the context that we are basically rebuilding, this is a total no for us.
 

Just Linda

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Feb 24, 2018
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as a habs fan, i see this as "get rid of 3-4 of our top 5 prospects and a 1st and a 2nd" for a guy that should be our 2c when KK matures, and Nurse (is he even a #2? thought he was 3-4)
in the context that we are basically rebuilding, this is a total no for us.

I'd say Nurse is a 2 but not a 1, he'd be a great fit on our team (as he would fit on 30 other teams too)
 

Homesick

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:laugh: Keep your overrated jerks...

Fair value would be:

Nurse vs Suzuki
RNH vs Habs 2nd
Oh my. So Charlie Coyle just returned a former 2nd and a 5th but RNH(who would be the Habs leading scorer) is only worth a mid 2nd? Whats Max Domi worth?

As a Habs fan.......no.

We finally just filled our cupboards. I wouldn’t empty them for these two. I’d rather do a minor stoernplayer plus one future piece.

So.......Lehkonen plus Brook for Nuge

Or, Poehling plus Benn for Nurse
3rd line winger plus a 2nd for one of the best 2C's in the game.....yeeesh

I realize the Oilers don't have much and that they will value what few decent players they have, but MTL gets bent over in both of those deals.
Montreal overrates their magic beans so hard
 
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Fourier

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Dec 29, 2006
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Thing is though he's not the only piece listed. Brook, our top defensive prospect, is also a cost listed. I'd argue that he's a more valuable asset than Poehling (though stat watchers will disagree on points and then someone will being up his junior possession numbers and the debate gets needlessly messy).

I don't think the issue with Nuge is based on talent. I'd argue that the Nuge we get this year is partially inflated by McDavid but his previous years were underperformed due to a myriad of easily explainable reasons too. I think a 60pt pace is reasonable and a 70pt pace isn't unreasonable.

I don't even think the external value is that far off.

I think the cost to team plus two years of player control plus Habs window not being open for a few years is more why the offer is unattractive.

If Winnipeg made a similiar offer (Niku+ or Vasalainen+), I don't think many people would argue. Nuge gets put in a position that suits him (well any player really) very well where he won't carry the team but just has to play with two good wingers and no doubt puts up the production he should without the expectation of him being a 1c (but he creates a deadly top 6).

For Montreal though, Nuge doesn't accomplish any goals and the gamble exists that it does more damage long term. Montreal needs to roll the dice with its propsects. Trading away futures should be immediately rejected unless it's for a player like Nurse. Nurse and Domi occupy the same role (though with different skill sets) and so we don't need a 2c in the future. We either need a better 1c or to let Kotkaneimi become it

Nuge is much more valuable than the pieces being offered even if he does not fit an immediate need. (I'd argue he would easily be your top center but that is for Hab fans to debate). If necessary he could be flipped for a defenseman better than Nurse. As an Oiler fan I'd value Nuge a lot more than Nurse. And the premise that Nuge and Draisaitl are being propped up by McDavid are in both cases considerably exaggerated. Both players carry there own weight with or without McDavid.

Brook may be the Habs best defensive prospect but he'd likely be 5th on the Oilers behind Bouchard, Jones, Bear and Persson. The deal being offered would be like the Oilers offering Ryan McLeod, Joel Persson and a 2nd for Gallagher. I doubt many Hab fans would consider this a big win for the Habs. Persson for those who do not know has been the leading combined point getter amongst SHL defensemen for the last two years. He is a RHD that is signed for $1M.

It's fine to argue that going the prospect route may be more prudent but that is not what is being stated here. One poster said he would not trade Poehling for Nugent Hopkins and another said the offer was an insult. Both positions are flat out ridiculous.
 

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
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Waterloo Ontario
as a habs fan, i see this as "get rid of 3-4 of our top 5 prospects and a 1st and a 2nd" for a guy that should be our 2c when KK matures, and Nurse (is he even a #2? thought he was 3-4)
in the context that we are basically rebuilding, this is a total no for us.
The chances that KK ends up being better than Nuge are actually not so great. He's had an excellent debut season but remember that Nuge had 52 points in 62 games as a rookie and has from the very beginning of his career had the responsibility of playing against the opposition's best centers. Everyone falls in love with prospects potential but reality generally does not match expectations.
 

Conor McDavitt

Registered User
Oct 17, 2017
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The Oilers will only make moves to improve the team, they are not looking for futures, unless they are able to remove certain cap hits.
 
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Legend123

Registered User
Jul 3, 2016
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So you denigrate all Habs fans based on posts from 3 guys. Good job. Doesn't make you as bad they are at all.
We are allowed to dislike a trade proposal especially when it's quite bad and as a team focused on a long term rebuild
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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Neither team does the first, Edmonton doesn't do the second.

Actually, I don't think either team does the second either. Montreal doesn't have an acute need for center (forward?) of RNH's caliber right now. Its not clear that he'd help Montreal's PP and its very debatable that he'd be an upgrade over the guys Montreal has right now at ES. They're better off keeping their stocked cupboard, developing guys they have at center and using their cap-space and ability/willingness to spend real money to address needs (elite talent, top-pair caliber LHD).
 

Edgy

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
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We are allowed to dislike a trade proposal especially when it's quite bad and as a team focused on a long term rebuild
Way to miss the point.

Let me simplify. You are free to dislike a proposal, you are free to criticize that proposal. But you don't call out an entire fan base based on a posts you didn't like from a couple of posters.
 

Legend123

Registered User
Jul 3, 2016
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Way to miss the point.

Let me simplify. You are free to dislike a proposal, you are free to criticize that proposal. But you don't call out an entire fan base based on a posts you didn't like from a couple of posters.
Nah u made us look horrible for disliking that trade and suggested not to count the crazies
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
20,341
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Nuge is much more valuable than the pieces being offered even if he does not fit an immediate need. (I'd argue he would easily be your top center but that is for Hab fans to debate). If necessary he could be flipped for a defenseman better than Nurse. As an Oiler fan I'd value Nuge a lot more than Nurse. And the premise that Nuge and Draisaitl are being propped up by McDavid are in both cases considerably exaggerated. Both players carry there own weight with or without McDavid

No he wouldn't. Both Domi and Danault are producing at a higher rate than RNH at ES with better underlying numbers. And keeping Kotkaniemi at 3C and developing him is probably priority 1 for the organization. RNH has never been a PP engine.

Both Draisaitl and RNH are not as good without McDavid. They're still really good (Draisaitl is great), but playing with the best player in the NHL tends to be better than not playing with the best player in the NHL.

Brook may be the Habs best defensive prospect but he'd likely be 5th on the Oilers behind Bouchard, Jones, Bear and Persson. The deal being offered would be like the Oilers offering Ryan McLeod, Joel Persson and a 2nd for Gallagher. I doubt many Hab fans would consider this a big win for the Habs. Persson for those who do not know has been the leading combined point getter amongst SHL defensemen for the last two years. He is a RHD that is signed for $1M.

1) The reigning WJC top D-man is probably Montreal's top D prospect, not Brook.

2) Ranking Jones and Bear ahead of Brook is a little homerish considering age, pedigree and general prospect rankings, but ranking Persson (who is a month younger than Nurse) as a better prospect is pretty funny.

It's fine to argue that going the prospect route may be more prudent but that is not what is being stated here. One poster said he would not trade Poehling for Nugent Hopkins and another said the offer was an insult. Both positions are flat out ridiculous.

Its ridiculous to say that the offer is an insult. Its not ridiculous to not want to trade for a player.
 
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