EDM revenue's exceed 80million ..

[Winger98]

When will your spin ever end?

I think there's been just as much spin to show Edmonton's (and Calgary, Ottawa, Vancouver's, etc.) problems being because of player costs and not the value of the Canadian dollar. If the Canadian dollar had been worth more than 2/3 of the American dollar for the past ten years, I doubt we would have seen Edmonton ditch half the players they did.

And while it would be nice for that part of the problem to be eliminated, I'm not sold on it being the NHL's responsibility to make up for how one nation decides to work its economics, or if it is even possible to fully offset such a thing. I won't argue that it sucks for Canadian teams to have to deal with this, but maybe they should be working harder on their end of the border to get Canadians to give them a few more tax breaks or some other form of financial rope.

Personally, if we're going to talk about small market problems, I think the conversation should be restricted to the American small market teams. Attempting to fix problems with the Canadian teams should be kept under a Canadian market heading. Just my piss and moan for the day, though.

 

[codswallop]

I agree... But I think that (since we're all human), we can't help but be biased... It's in our blood... It's an evolution survival thing...

The goal, IMO, is to constantly try to grab our bias before it gets too far... To keep on reminding ourselves that we've all got biases... To take the time to step back and try to look at the whole chess board, not just our individual pieces...

The struggle to realize and catch our individual bias, IMO, is the reasonable goal - not trying to eliminate our bias all together... There's a good reason us humans each have our bias, and to deny it, denies what makes us human...

IMO, nothing is wrong with a biased poster... It's expected, it's human, it's natural, and it makes for healthy discussion... Where it becomes a problem is when the biased poster fails to take a step back, fails to attempt to see and appreciate the other point-of-view, and fails to be prepared to re-formulate their stance based on considering new points...

Bias doesn't bother me... The only thing that bothers me a bit here is arrogance... Those that think that they are absolutely right and put down others who disagree... Without really considering other pov's (even the ones that seem at the outset very stupid), we'd be stuck in mediocrity (in our thoughts and in our lives)...

The goal here is to discuss and learn, IMO... not for someone to prove how smart they are, while making themselves feel smarter by putting 'an idiot' down...

If I was a mod, I'd let there be photos of naked women (and men, for the women and homosexual posters)... But if someone called someone else an idiot, I'd ban them on the spot... That's the true evil of a discussion... Put down the message, not the messenger...

Anyways, just my $.02...

I definitely agree with you on this.

I wasn't trying to assert that everyone should dump their biases and try to objectively see this issue from both sides of the fence. Like you alluded to, that just isn't gonna happen. I did a poor job of describing my intention, yours was much better.

With this line though, I believe you hit the nail on the head...

Where it becomes a problem is when the biased poster fails to take a step back, fails to attempt to see and appreciate the other point-of-view, and fails to be prepared to re-formulate their stance based on considering new points...

I'm all for anyone and everyone giving their opinions. Some I'll like, some I won't; nature of the beast. For a long time now, I've learned not to take things of this nature personally. It's counter-productive. Perhaps if I were more neutral on this subject, I could keep from getting irritated every now and then (I do my best to keep that to a very minimum though). Sometimes the passion that unites us here also divides us; not un-expected of course but it's a factor in some of the comments we see and/or write. But I'm willing to listen and learn, as much as I can.

 

[myrocketsgotcracked]

Holy ****, the stupidity on these boards is sickening.

wouldnt be so bad if you stop posting your insightful remarks

Actually, what I am saying is that the Oilers were able to remain at or above the level they were at with Guerin and Weight for much cheaper than it would have been to keep them.

You honestly think the Oilers would be significantly better with those 2 30plus players taking prime minutes away from the younger players (the precious few the Oilers have developped) who developped the years following the trades?

Im just pointing out yet another logically inconsistent position despite evidence to the contrary (that the Oilers are no worse off having traded Doug Weight and Guerin, and are in fact, cheaper).

The whole whining that comes from the Oilers fans with no brain is that they cant compete cause they lost these 2 players. I pointed out that their records were either the same or IMPROVED after these 2 players left.

A hard cap would hurt Edmonton far more than it wuold help them, just incase anyone still doesnt understand.

okay, i'll try one more time to answer this, and lets see if you can come up with a better counter arguement then an insult.

with weight and guerin, the oilers are a playoff team. without them, they missed the playoff 2 of the 3 years. how are they "remaining at or above the level they were at"?

who exactly did the oilers developed in the place of guerin and weight (1st line RW and 1st line center)? and if i have to pick, i'll pick a 40 goal man (guerin) and a 50+ assists center. not that tough of a choice to me. and yes, i do think it will make them a better team.

your "evidence" is that the oilers have more points than before the trade and conclude they are better. my "evidence" is their lack of playoff appearances since then to conclude they are worse off. you take a non-playoff team over a playoff team, and you think we are logically inconsistent, enough said.

so a hard cap that allows the oilers to keep their 1st line RW and C hurts them? why is that?

well i tried my best. now i eagerly look forward to you telling me how stupid i am.

 

[hockeytown9321]

your "evidence" is that the oilers have more points than before the trade and conclude they are better. my "evidence" is their lack of playoff appearances since then to conclude they are worse off. you take a non-playoff team over a playoff team, and you think we are logically inconsistent, enough said.

That's meaningless. They could have improved, but that doesn't mean they improved at the same rate as other teams, hence they miss the playoffs.

 

[MarkZackKarl]

tsk tsk

Actually, the only thing that changed was that teams aroudn the Oilers got better, while they sat in a similar spot.

Dont you realize? Not only were there less teams in 1997, 1998 etc, but also it was far easier to make the playoffs in the late 90s. Ottawa made the playoffs in 1997 with 77 points and in 1998 with 83 points. No teams with losing (not including OT) records would make the playoffs nowadays. Its just increase parity.

Moreover, how the heck doy ou think the Oilers can keep any of their players together under a cap? The poitn of a cap is so that teams HAVE NO CHOICE whether to keep a team together. Thats a stupid thing to want, for sure.

The Oilers didnt make the playoffs as much lately simply because their competition around them in the West have gotten better. Doug Weight has not really improved the St. Louis point totals, on average has he? What about Guerin?.

 

[myrocketsgotcracked]

Actually, moron, the only thing that changed was that teams aroudn the Oilers got better, while they sat in a similar spot.

Dont you realize? Not only were there less teams in 1997, 1998 etc, but also it was far easier to make the playoffs in the late 90s. Ottawa made the playoffs in 1997 with 77 points and in 1998 with 83 points. No teams with losing (not including OT) records would make the playoffs nowadays. Its just increase parity.

Moreover, how the heck doy ou think the Oilers can keep any of their players together under a cap? The poitn of a cap is so that teams HAVE NO CHOICE whether to keep a team together. Thats a stupid thing to want, for sure.

The Oilers didnt make the playoffs as much lately simply because their competition around them in the West have gotten better. Doug Weight has not really improved the St. Louis point totals, on average has he? What about Guerin?.

first off, name calling? is that what you have to resort to?

second, one the team that "got better" did it in the expense of the oilers. by acquiring weight, the blues became better, the oilers became worst. sure, weight wasnt worth the $8M per year hes getting, but hes still a number one center.

third, how was it "easier" to make the playoff back in 98? because it takes less points? well, back in 98 there were 2132 points available in total (26 teams, 2 points each game). last season, there were 2460 points available (30 teams, 2 points each game) PLUS 145 OTL points = 2605. thats a 473 points different, thats an average of 15.67 more points per team compare to 1998. dont YOU realize that just because it takes more points now to make the playoff doesnt make it "harder". so the fact that edmonton "sat in a similar spot" point-wise makes them worse off then before.

lastly, if weight and guerin continues to get pay $8M and $9M after the cap (assume for your convenient to be at $30M) then you are right, they cant keep them. but they wont be getting that kind of money under the cap, so the oiler will be able to keep them, simple as that.

 

[SENSible1*]

first off, name calling? is that what you have to resort to?

It's kind of his trademark. On the bright side, at least it lets everyone know what type of individual we are dealing with.

third, how was it "easier" to make the playoff back in 98? because it takes less points? well, back in 98 there were 2132 points available in total (26 teams, 2 points each game). last season, there were 2460 points available (30 teams, 2 points each game) PLUS 145 OTL points = 2605. thats a 473 points different, thats an average of 15.67 more points per team compare to 1998. dont YOU realize that just because it takes more points now to make the playoff doesnt make it "harder". so the fact that edmonton "sat in a similar spot" point-wise makes them worse off then before.

How could a logical person overlook the OTL points when citing points achieved as a measure of team success in judging the current Oilers and the teams that featured Weight and Guerin?

One can only assume that the individual in question was ignorant of the facts, illogical, or deliberately citing a fact that they knew was irrelevant. So which is it SSF, ignorant, illogical, or dishonest?

 

[Pepper]

SacredSensfan is a one-trick pony, sounds like a frustrated teenager who really doesn't have a clue about the financial realities and the moment he's challenged to back up his claims he gets personal.

He's not worth the time.

 

[mudcrutch79]

That's a pretty harsh point of view on scaredsensfan. I'm certainly not a teenager with nothing better to do, and I lean towards his direction in thinking that the ownership position isn't exactly desireable. And I'm an Oilers fan to boot.

 

[Pepper]

There are several intelligent posters who side more with players here, posters who don't resort to name calling, personal attacks and other immature crap.

It's not about the side they choose, it's about the immature stuff that they pull. And frankly when you look at some of their posts, the spelling & grammar looks so teenagerish.

 

[GKJ]

Proof that one team makes a profit shows that the league is healthy?

No, but according to Bettman, the Oilers won't survive without a salary cap.



Bettman is falling deeper into his hole, and some of the owners need to put this guy in place.


On the other hand...good god..They made 80 million? This from a country whose dollar isn't as good as the USD but is rising. Look out NHL.

 

[Vomiting Kermit*]

I <3 the Oilers!

 

[kerrly]

No, but according to Bettman, the Oilers won't survive without a salary cap.



Bettman is falling deeper into his hole, and some of the owners need to put this guy in place.


On the other hand...good god..They made 80 million? This from a country whose dollar isn't as good as the USD but is rising. Look out NHL.

Yeah sure the dollar is rising now, and does certainly help the CDN teams. But for how long does this go on. The CDN dollar is high against the American dollar. As soon as Bush decided that he wants to bring the dollar back up, we're back stuck in the low 70's again. To base an argument on something that can change drastically in a months time to show that things are ok for CDN teams, just doesn't cut it in my books.

 

[xander]

I don't know what the average rate was durring 2002-2003 but I spent some time in canada in march 2003 and i remember, at that point, that the CND Doller was as low as .65-.67 against the american doller. This may have been a low point and not the average, but using that fiqure the oil's gross revenue comes out to $52 million. $31 million goes to player salaries and you've got $21 million left to cover other expences.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

I don't know what the average rate was durring 2002-2003 but I spent some time in canada in march 2003 and i remember, at that point, that the CND Doller was as low as .65-.67 against the american doller. This may have been a low point and not the average, but using that fiqure the oil's gross revenue comes out to $52 million. $31 million goes to player salaries and you've got $21 million left to cover other expences.

and if TOR, PHI, VAN and other high revenue teams really cared about EDM only having 21m left over, they could SHARE their revenue on a more meaningful basis.

but they dont really care enough about EDM to do it, they want the players to.

dr

 

[Boilers*]

I don't know what the average rate was durring 2002-2003 but I spent some time in canada in march 2003 and i remember, at that point, that the CND Doller was as low as .65-.67 against the american doller. This may have been a low point and not the average, but using that fiqure the oil's gross revenue comes out to $52 million. $31 million goes to player salaries and you've got $21 million left to cover other expences.

Well one expense for certain is electricity and since Klein deregulated the grid a few years back we've been paying through the nose for it. Anyone wanna take a stab at how much it costs to provide Rexall place with that many lights,pumps et.al?

The owners are trying to recoup losses the only way they can,via Players prices.

 

[Silver]

The US dollar will be lucky to stay where it is right now against the Canadian dollar, and there isn't anything Bush can do about it. If the US dollar is going anywhere, it sinks. It's not going to increase in value for the foreseeable future.

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

The US dollar will be lucky to stay where it is right now against the Canadian dollar, and there isn't anything Bush can do about it. If the US dollar is going anywhere, it sinks. It's not going to increase in value for the foreseeable future.

the CDN government will engineer our dollar lowering in value to the USD. other than for NHL hockey (and a few industries) its bad for CDN business when our dollar is so high vs USD.

dr

 

[chriss_co]

the CDN government will engineer our dollar lowering in value to the USD. other than for NHL hockey (and a few industries) its bad for CDN business when our dollar is so high vs USD.

dr

Thats quite true.. during the Chretien era, he was directly responsible for a low dollar. That was more or less his policy of how canada's economics should run. And it worked.. our GDP and exports were quite healthy during Chretien as PM.. but thats beside the point

However, the current value of the CDN dollar being so strong is more or less attributed to the very weak US dollar. Most of all the major currencies in the world are on the way up compared to the US dollar. So its not really because Canada has a stronger economy etc than the US, its just that the US dollar is so weak right now that any currency will do much better.

I think devaluing the CDN dollar right now would be stupid because then you're basically trying to lower the economy so its at par with only the US and not the rest of the world.

The US economy will turn around eventually, and so will its dollar. Thats when the CDN dollar will fall again. So i wouldn't be too worried. As long as the currencies of the world are doing better or at par with ours, we should not have THAT many problems. (We'll have some cuz the US is our major trading partner)

 

[OYLer]

However, the current value of the CDN dollar being so strong is more or less attributed to the very weak US dollar. Most of all the major currencies in the world are on the way up compared to the US dollar. So its not really because Canada has a stronger economy etc than the US, its just that the US dollar is so weak right now that any currency will do much better...

...(We'll have some cuz the US is our major trading partner)

Trade deficits and our respective national debts might have a tad to do with the respective strengths of the U$D vs. Cdn$

Republicans chastise liberals about tax & spend policies but always manage to fatten their pork-skinned wallets on the backs of the American middle class Taxpayers. And as the balance of trade gets worse because big Corporate America has outsourced all of it's manufacturing and the attendent working-men's jobs, the US economy rewards only the rich! Well the US ellectorate got the Pesident and the economy they deserve. Hockey being the poor sports sister will not continue to thrive in the States.