Confirmed Trade: [EDM/PIT] John Marino for a conditional 2021 6th round pick

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Aceboogie

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Marino was always pretty highly regarded by Oiler fans even when he was a no namer. Most neutral fans just treated this guy like a cast off (which they do with most Oiler prospect who get some hype). I think hell be an NHLer. He always had the tools and ability.

For the Marino situation only Ill give a pass to Oilers management. If he wasnt going to sign here, its hard to do anything. Alot of other prospects are electign to hold out (cant blame them either).

Its funny though, as the Oilers have identified some pretty good D- its just all of them were traded/moved/not signed. Those D being Osterle, Gustafsson and potentially Marino.

Good to see Marino doing well and also that Oiler fans are good at identifying talent. Right now they have a D prospect pool stacked to the max, so hopefully some of the many good ones turn into studs
 

CapnZin

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Okay, so you're right and both the Oilers and Penguins scouting staff is wrong. Friedman is an idiot for saying "Marino will play in the NHL this year" because you say so. Thanks, glad for clearing this up. I'll make sure to come to you to ask for scouting reports on these players in the future.

To add, I just said Marino is NHL ready right now. I said his upside is solid 2nd pair, not that he's a solid 2nd pair D right now.
No one is right or wrong. It’s impossible to judge since the sample size is technically 0. The petty write-up to that is fine, but to each their own.

I never said that you thought he could jump into a T4 role right now... that would be ridiculous. Basing a judgment of potential, something that high (T4 league-wide) off of preseason hockey is what jumped out at me.

I don’t care about a scouting report for a non game changer or someone who would’ve been a marginal Defender. Hopefully he turns into one for you guys, I guess, but this site is for posting your opinion, this is just mine like that is just yours.
 

Empoleon8771

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No one is right or wrong. It’s impossible to judge since the sample size is technically 0. The petty write-up to that is fine, but to each their own.

I never said that you thought he could jump into a T4 role right now... that would be ridiculous. Basing a judgment of potential, something that high (T4 league-wide) off of preseason hockey is what jumped out at me.

I don’t care about a scouting report for a non game changer or someone who would’ve been a marginal Defender. Hopefully he turns into one for you guys, I guess, but this site is for posting your opinion, this is just mine like that is just yours.

The thing is that I don't think this evaluation is based solely on a preseason. When he was first acquired, most people thought he had #4 or #5 upside. I don't think bumping that up to #3 or #4 upside based on a great preseason is unreasonable. He didn't go from a nothing prospect to their best prospect, he went from a decent prospect to a good prospect. It's more likely that the Oilers and Penguins scouting staff were right with Marino as a prospect and that fans just underrated him due to his pedestrian stat line. It just took until fans saw him to realize that judging him based on his stat line underrated him.
 

CapnZin

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The thing is that I don't think this evaluation is based solely on a preseason. When he was first acquired, most people thought he had #4 or #5 upside. I don't think bumping that up to #3 or #4 upside based on a great preseason is unreasonable. He didn't go from a nothing prospect to their best prospect, he went from a decent prospect to a good prospect. It's more likely that the Oilers and Penguins scouting staff were right with Marino as a prospect and that fans just underrated him due to his pedestrian stat line. It just took until fans saw him to realize that judging him based on his stat line underrated him.
Pedestrian stat lines are usually that way for Stay at home Dmen, even though he was more regarded as a 2-way so far in College.
You don’t base stat lines for someone who will be playing a sole defensive minded position in the NHL. The people that do that have, most likely, never heard of him so those uninformed opinions can be disregarded.

The more impressive aspect of Marino is the fact that he grew 1 inch and 25+ pounds in a year without losing much off his skating. However, his lateral mobility is sub-par and is easy to beat down low if he isn’t the first person to the puck. His support pressure on the boards also lacks which signals more growth for his defensive IQ. He still is quite raw and most likely won’t hit the NHL until 2021-2022. His ‘mean streak’ is also overrated. He seems to be a less offensively inclined Connor Clifton from Boston. He just has more size. There’s definitely NHL upside, but to say T4 is off in my opinion since there hasn’t been any high level comp. to say anything, even what I’m saying, is almost pure speculation.

The ECAC is a strong division, but the avg comp level for F wasn’t the strong point. That was a concern from scouts, but he overcame that with solid play.

I don’t think he can go back to school, so you’ll see what he looks like in the AHL. You have to be able to move the puck in this league and his first pass is good from the baseline, not if he skates up with the puck nearing the NZ. I wouldn’t believe any readings that say otherwise. Still a good first pass player, but he will only be used for a #2 PK specialist that gets 13 TOI a night as a #5 ceiling type player. That’s just what I think from what I’ve seen. Again, it’s pure speculation at this point and he could flip the switch either way.
 
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BHD

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As easy as it is to pile on the Oilers, you can't blame them for trading him. Meanwhile, I'd pump the brakes if I were a Pens fan. The Pens have a logjam of mediocre on the backend, and most of them are on big contracts.

Dumoulin-Letang
Johnson/Pettersson - Schultz
Johnson/Pettersson - Gudbranson
Ruhwedel
Riikola

So even if he can play, we (Pens fans) might not be seeing him anytime soon. Although, he's still in camp. So that's a good thing.
 

Riptide

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If he doesn’t beat out Johnson/Gudbranson as the #6, that should tell you something. The kid does look good, but a T4 league wide upside is wild basing off of B roster teams playing safe hockey in like 5 games.

If JJ makes the team (likely) it has little to do with performance and everything to do with contracts. So I wouldn't read much into that. The odds of Rutherford sending him to the minors is next to nil.

As for Gudbranson, there's not a chance he'll beat him out - I don't care how good he's looked in camp. Gudbranson based on his play last season and this pre-season rightfully has a spot locked down. I get that it's hard to overlook how terrible he was in Vancouver. But his time in Pittsburgh has been outstanding, and so have his numbers. And by all accounts his pre season has been just as good. So to read anything into that would just show that one is merely basing their opinion off of what he did in Vancouver and not what he's done so far in Pittsburgh.

Gudbranson's results for us - at least RS - were off the charts good. The relative possession stats he had for us would, if put among the entire NHL (dmen playing 600+ minutes) have made him 8th (Corsi), 28th (Fenwick), 40th (Shots), 6th (Scoring Chances) and 2 (High Danger Chances). He did that logging big minutes and with 42% offensive zone starts - only 3 players in the top 30 for relative corsi had less than 50% zone starts. Most of those games he was primarily against opposition top lines.
 

DesertPenguin

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All his still being on the team tells me is that they like him, and he's likely the first callup when injuries inevitably happen. The fact that they like Marino and Riikola makes JJ all the more expendable. They brought JJ in for some size and physicality on the back end, but since signing him they got Gudbransson who has more of both, Pettersson who is big as well as skilled, and Riikola who slots better next to Guds than JJ does. It's time to light the fuse on the JJ cannon, shoot him to the moon.
 

SupremeTeam16

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I wouldn’t put much stock into pre season. Oilers thought he had upside for where he was drafted but he was buried by a lot of defensive depth both guys with higher pedigree as well as prospects that were further along development wise.

They knew he likely wouldn’t sign and so they got what they could.
 

domaug

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good news: Marino looked really good in preseason

"bad" news: it's just preseason, and it's not like the Pens have this amazing defense where he stood out
 

deca guard

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He was so far down the organizational depth chart. Good for him, he’s a good player.

But with these guys all ahead of him, he likely wouldn’t have signed anyways:
Bouchard
Broberg
Samorukov
Jones
Bear
Laggesson
Persson
Day
Berglund

Our D prospect pipeline is utterly stacked, only the Avs I would say has a better D prospect pool. Marino hopefully gets a better chance in PIT. Wish the kid nothing but the best.
zadina for one or two of those d prospect might work out for both sides
 

Roof Daddy

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zadina for one or two of those d prospect might work out for both sides

I’d do Puljujarvi + Samorukov for Zadina. You get our #3 D prospect (could be a top D prospect on a number of teams) and a boom-bust in Pulju whose talent level is on par with Zadina, but immature and poor coachability.

I’d be curious if Detroit would consider?
 

CrosbyMalkin

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good news: Marino looked really good in preseason

"bad" news: it's just preseason, and it's not like the Pens have this amazing defense where he stood out

I have watched every game and no doubt Marino is NHL ready right now. Preseason games or not doesn’t change that fact. It is easy to see his hockey IQ in all areas of the ice, his skating, passing, shot, physical defensive play. Marino shows no area that needs work. Some prospects could show strong in one aspect of play which would make you excited for his future but in Marino’s case he looked like one of the Pens best defenseman and that is counting comparing his play to the likes of Dumoulin, Letang, Pettersson, and Schultz. Marino made less errors than all of them this preseason and showed nothing that wasn’t NHL ready.

Marino will be a top 4 defenseman in the NHL in the very near future and can definitely play 3rd pair minutes now. Only problem for Marino is that the Pens are stacked on the RD side with Letang, Schultz, and Gudbranson. As pointed out already in this thread Gudbranson played lights out for the Pens last year and has looked just as good this camp. Schultz has like 7 points in his 4-5 games played this preseason and Letang is a top 10 defenseman in the league. If Marino was a LD he would be in the lineup behind Dumoulin and Pettersson. As of now that 3rd LD battle goes to JJ and Riikola. Pens depth at defense is very strong but finding the right combo is the difficult thing because the only pairings that work would be Riikola-Gudbranson or JJ-Marino and I can’t see Gudbranson out of the lineup the way he played last year for the Pens. Rhuwedel has always been a serviceable NHL 7th defenseman who can play several games a year in the bottom pairing but has been clearly outplayed by Marino and finds himself 5th on the depth chart for RD’s.

On another great note is POJ is the real deal also and while he has elements of his defensive game that needs some tweaks he really showed some nice upside. I think he could be in the NHL as soon as this season as the the 3rd pairing LD if he cleans up some things in his own end. POJ’s skating and puck movement skills are NHL ready. Reminds me a lot of a less polished Pettersson who Rutherford traded for last season. Nice to have real prospects again:laugh:.
 
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ijuka

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Marino will be a top 4 defenseman in the NHL in the very near future and can definitely play 3rd pair minutes now. Only problem for Marino is that the Pens are stacked on the RD side with Letang, Schultz, and Gudbranson. As pointed out already in this thread Gudbranson played lights out for the Pens last year and has looked just as good this camp.
Gudbranson was rated the very worst defenseman in all of NHL in the summer.

Marino isn't very good if he can't take that spot.
 

Jumptheshark

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Pens got a heck of a player

Marino saw the depth of the oilers D and saw how stacked they look

We have guys who wont be on our team that look to be good

It was the numbers game
 

CrosbyMalkin

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Gudbranson was rated the very worst defenseman in all of NHL in the summer.

Marino isn't very good if he can't take that spot.

Why don’t you look at Gudbranson’s stats with the Pens. Gudbranson metrics all near the top in the league during that time and has had a good camp. Don’t be lazy and actually read about his play and we’re he rated in comparison to the other 600+ defenseman in the NHL during his time with the Pens. Comments like yours are both lazy and nonproductive and add nothing to the conversation. Have you watched Marino this preseason? Have you watched Gudbranson’s play with the Pens? I watched every game of Gudbranson with the Pens and all of Marino’s preseason games. Marino clearly outplayed players like Rhuwedel and showed NHL readiness. Why don’t you go watch all 5 of the Pens preseason games Marino played in and make an educated assessment of his readiness. Then come back and add some fair perspective. Thanks
 

Todd from Leduc

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Solid move by Hollsy here, with the defensive depth we have he was buried so might as well trade an asset for picks. I expect to see Holland make more of these type of moves to bolster our cupboard of picks.

It’s little moves like these that add up to give you the trade ammo to make a big splash at trade deadline.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Gudbranson was rated the very worst defenseman in all of NHL in the summer.

Marino isn't very good if he can't take that spot.

Gudbranson isn’t on their team because of his defensive prowess. Rutherford acquired him to be a head basher that can take a regular shift. JR has had a major hard up for this kind of player the last few years.

So no, Marino can’t compete with a guy who already has his place in the lineup set in stone.
 
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bobholly39

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hrmm lame

when I saw the headline of an Edm/Pitt trade - I was hoping it'd involved Crosby and McDavid
 

Rebels57

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He was so far down the organizational depth chart. Good for him, he’s a good player.

But with these guys all ahead of him, he likely wouldn’t have signed anyways:
Bouchard
Broberg
Samorukov
Jones
Bear
Laggesson
Persson
Day
Berglund

Our D prospect pipeline is utterly stacked, only the Avs I would say has a better D prospect pool. Marino hopefully gets a better chance in PIT. Wish the kid nothing but the best.

Is Ethan Bear going to finally crack the roster or is headed back for a 3rd AHL season?
 

typicalsavage

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I’d do Puljujarvi + Samorukov for Zadina. You get our #3 D prospect (could be a top D prospect on a number of teams) and a boom-bust in Pulju whose talent level is on par with Zadina, but immature and poor coachability.

I’d be curious if Detroit would consider?

Lmao thats pathetic, you want Zadina pony up Bouchard. Would you trade Bouchard for Bracco + Gauthier? No dont think so.
 
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