Post-Game Talk: EDM 2 - NJD 1: Enough is enough, and it is time for a change.

Status
Not open for further replies.

NJDevs26

Once upon a time...
Mar 21, 2007
67,115
31,150
Clowe and Ryder were signed before Kovalchuk retired.

I hope you're not implying that Lou intentionally drafted Matteau because he wanted a guy that would immediately play in the NHL, because the draft was also before Kovalchuk walked away. And Conte went so far as to say Matteau was much higher on their board than 29 and they were surprised he was still there. They legitimately thought he was good. EVEN AFTER Kovalchuk walked away and we needed bodies he still got sent down after 15 games after Lou got the ball rolling on his ELC.

The money excuse only goes so far. Lou let Ponikarovsky go because we couldn't afford him, and then traded for him a week into the season. He made Parise a competitive offer, he wanted to go to Minnesota to play with Suter (which turned out great for us, he's rapidly declining and still has EIGHT years left on his contract).

Lou did make moves with the expectation of the KHL All-Star leaving, he knew he was thinking of going before the season and was told he was leaving immediately after the season but the announcement was delayed - presumably to help our leverage in FA.

But I agree on Matteau, you can't attribute THAT to money, at least not the draft pick itself. Maybe playing him early as long as they did, but even then it's debatable cause you could literally have played any AHL scrub/retread or brought Sykora-Poni back for cheap and not screwed around with the ELC of a marginal prospect. They liked Matteau's background and Conte wanted another Zubrus.
 

Bleedred

Travis Green BLOWS! Bring back Nasreddine!
Sponsor
May 1, 2011
128,935
55,940
I think I know why we traded Matteau.

Because who wants just one Matteau when you can have about 5 or 6 of them? Which is pretty much how many useless and no skill forwards we have on this roster right now.
 

Camille the Eel

Registered User
We actually have a good forward group that can skate. We could use more D.

Looking at the game last night, Edmonton's personnel was consistently superior to us all over the ice. Bigger, stronger, faster, mostly younger too.

We played as well as we can to contain them, but our roster is not as strong man for man as theirs. Nowhere near.

Firing our coach is not the answer, it has no impact on our personnel. What we couldn't accept was lack of effort but really since we were exhausted towards Xmas, that's not been our problem.

The only answer is to patiently upgrade person by person. We are back where we were in the late 1980's. It's cyclical. But our younger players are gaining experience, confidence and strength. Wood, Merrill, Severson in particular look to me to be growing up appreciably right now.
 

Cult of Hynes

Hynes is never wrong.
Nov 9, 2010
13,369
2,979
Looking at the game last night, Edmonton's personnel was consistently superior to us all over the ice. Bigger, stronger, faster, mostly younger too.

We played as well as we can to contain them, but our roster is not as strong man for man as theirs. Nowhere near.

Firing our coach is not the answer, it has no impact on our personnel. What we couldn't accept was lack of effort but really since we were exhausted towards Xmas, that's not been our problem.

The only answer is to patiently upgrade person by person. We are back where we were in the late 1980's. It's cyclical. But our younger players are gaining experience, confidence and strength. Wood, Merrill, Severson in particular look to me to be growing up appreciably right now.

Except firing clueless coach will help. He kept putting slow and outplayed players on the ice and made horrible like combos. He doesn't make the right adjustments. He isn't good, time to go.
 

Zippy316

aka Zippo
Aug 17, 2012
19,485
4,473
New Jersey
Except firing clueless coach will help. He kept putting slow and outplayed players on the ice and made horrible like combos. He doesn't make the right adjustments. He isn't good, time to go.

I'm not sure anything he did would've changed the fact that every single line we put on the ice got dominated territorially.

Maybe he could've played Merrill instead of Quincey/Lovejoy on the PK. I've seen Severson do some dumb things on the PK and I'm not sure I would trust Santini in a situation like that this early into his career. As far as the forward goes, with Zajac in the box and Fiddler hurt, who else were we going to put out there? The rest of our forwards are terrible defensively.

The fact that Hynes didn't have other options to play than those guys (and injuries) is a bigger problem than who he picked.
 

Zippy316

aka Zippo
Aug 17, 2012
19,485
4,473
New Jersey
The roster is substandard and now we have 4 of them out with injury.
The coaching staff is not good either.

Outside of Gallant, there really isn't any other coach that is a better option than Hynes right now. Gallant doesn't have much of a pedigree either. Maybe getting rid of Hynes and replacing him with Ward? I'm not sure how that changes anything either though.

Whatever other person you put to coach this team is still going to have a substandard roster to work with. It's not like MacLean's Devils that stunk up the joint with guys like Elias and Kovalchuk.
 

ForeverJerseyGirl

Registered User
Dec 14, 2014
11,854
35
New Jersey
Anybody get bingo tonight?

Get outshot by double or close to it? Check

Score games first goal and still lose? Check

Bottom 6 didn't score/AKA: Free spot? Check

Allow 40+ shots? Check

Barely hit 20 shots? Check

Can't score 2 or more goals? Check

Give up shorthanded chance or goal against? I don't even remember, maybe not?

John Moore makes a mistake? NA

Hynes refuses to pull Schneider? NA

Allow 4 goals? NO! (Thanks Cory!):handclap:

The post game quotes from Hynes that I can find are complaining about the OT call on Zajac. Because of course that call was the reason we were outshot 40+ to 20 before that call ever even happened.

Hynes is a man of excuses, not answers or solutions.

This grows ever more apparent.
 

JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
65,688
27,889
Looking at the game last night, Edmonton's personnel was consistently superior to us all over the ice. Bigger, stronger, faster, mostly younger too.

I honestly believe the opposite is true.

Looking at the box one thing just popped out and that was McDavid's 8 shots. If anyone watched 5 minutes of that game it was obvious how impactful he was.

We don't have a McDavid. We don't have a forward that can dominate 23:31 of a game and not too many teams in the league do.

We also didn't alter the game plan one single bit in an attempt to contain him at all. He was allowed to freely skate through the neutral zone and attack our zone at full speed all night.

I'm not sure if any X's or O's would've made a difference against his talent but it would've been nice to try.

You take McDavid off of that team and we dominate that game in every aspect and Edmonton is thinking about their next #1 overall. McDavid is that good. I wish him well
 

MNDevilsfan

Registered User
Jan 9, 2015
795
238
St. Paul, MN
No team other than Edmonton and I guess Pittsburgh have a player like McDavid. It is insane how good he is at his age.

The Oilers are a completely different team when he's on the ice compared to when he isn't.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,305
45,253
Shero needs to do something to shake things up. If he doesn't think firing Hynes is the answer, he needs to move out at least one of the lazy vets.
 

Oneiro

Registered User
Mar 28, 2013
9,438
11,002
It's a transitional year. Shero did exactly what Lou did. Dumpster dive to cover the deficiencies and again it backfired, save for Parenteau, who is a disaster when he's not scoring.

The young pieces are fine and we need to add more of them. From what we've seen of their basic habits, I believe that Wood, Zacha, Quenneville and Speers will reduce the burden on Hall, Henrique and Palmieri. Ditto for Santini's role. To what degree, we don't know. But that's something I could never say about Josefson, Tedenby, Matteau, etc. That alone is encouraging.

To most here, I suspect that making the playoffs would be considered a "win" on the season. But this team at its best would be an easy first round exit. Very soft and peripheral and, teamwide, not smart enough to play close games.

And that's the question. Is the roster not skilled enough to execute the high-level plays Hynes demands? Or is Hynes a ****** coach who cannot translate his intentions to an NHL squad?

I think it's a bit of both. And that's a fatal combination.
 

ForeverJerseyGirl

Registered User
Dec 14, 2014
11,854
35
New Jersey
so Hynes hasn't been canned yet eh

Nope. Shero probably still thinks Hynes is doing a good job. Here's a live look-in at Shero:

658.png
 

SansaStark

Registered User
Apr 11, 2013
357
168
heres the truth peeps
Nothing is going to happen this year thats going to make anyone feel better.
no trade is going to occur thats going to make you feel better
no firing or hiring is going to make you feel better
no lottery draft pick this year is like a matthews or mcdavid or laine or eichel
best case scenario we get Hischier, we won't win the lottery even if were last place
PAP won't yield anything more than a 2nd at best, AT BEST
CAM won't get you much even if he waives

We don't have valuable assists to get good returns except Schneider. Cory being traded is the best possible option to get the best possible return ….and its likely shero doesn't move cory at all

We aren't getting shattenkirk so everyone needs to stop with that.

This is how its going to be for couple of seasons. everyone brace yourselfs cause we are all not gonna like whats coming.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,305
45,253
Some of you are really missing the point. We aren't asking for a trade or to fire Hynes because we think it will magically fix the team and make us a playoff contender, we're asking for that because the team's effort is ******* most nights and they seem to lack any sort of defensive system. It's time to move out one or two of the players that aren't putting in the proper effort before that attitude spreads and holds through the entire team, most importantly in our young guys.
 

ForeverJerseyGirl

Registered User
Dec 14, 2014
11,854
35
New Jersey
Some of you are really missing the point. We aren't asking for a trade or to fire Hynes because we think it will magically fix the team and make us a playoff contender, we're asking for that because the team's effort is ******* most nights and they seem to lack any sort of defensive system. It's time to move out one or two of the players that aren't putting in the proper effort before that attitude spreads and holds through the entire team, most importantly in our young guys.

Well-said, especially the bolded.
 

JimEIV

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
65,688
27,889
Some of you are really missing the point. We aren't asking for a trade or to fire Hynes because we think it will magically fix the team and make us a playoff contender, we're asking for that because the team's effort is ******* most nights and they seem to lack any sort of defensive system. It's time to move out one or two of the players that aren't putting in the proper effort before that attitude spreads and holds through the entire team, most importantly in our young guys.
Move out? Why not bench one first?

Why not make a really bold statement and bench Palmieri, put Wood in his spot and call up Coleman and give him a shot at 3LW.

Trade? 8 million things can be done before a trade to kick the team in the ass. .

And that's another thing, Henrique seems to be getting a lot of hate around here when Palmieri who has been the most lackadaisical, nonmotivated, useless player on the team seems to largely get a free pass...A free pass After signing a big contract.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,305
45,253
Move out? Why not bench one first?

Why not make a really bold statement and bench Palmieri, put Wood in his spot and call up Coleman and give him a shot at 3LW.

Trade? 8 million things can be done before a trade to kick the team in the ass. .

And that's another thing, Henrique seems to be getting a lot of hate around here when Palmieri who has been the most lackadaisical, nonmotivated, useless player on the team seems to largely get a free pass...A free pass After signing a big contract.

He's not getting a free pass, but a guy you just signed to a long term deal is going to send up major red flags if you try and trade him. Henrique will get a better return so that's why most people have suggested that. Palmieri gets **** on plenty in these game day threads, as he deserves. He's been terrible as well.

Yes, I'd like to see some benching and scratches first as well, but most coaches in the NHL won't do that to the higher paid players on the roster because it makes the GM look terrible and that can come back on the coach. In an ideal world they do need to send that message first, but I think ultimately a trade is the only thing that will get it done.
 

EliasFTW

Registered User
Jan 27, 2009
8,397
1,073
Utica, NY
Year two of a rebuild folks. We are a bad team get over it. We keep asking for coaches and GM's heads we will soon be Edmonton without the lottery picks.
 

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,305
45,253
Year two of a rebuild folks. We are a bad team get over it. We keep asking for coaches and GM's heads we will soon be Edmonton without the lottery picks.

Bad and lazy is like Edmonton, and that's how we've been since November. That's the truth, and it's the worst place you can be. A culture of winning starts with a high work ethic even when the team is bad. If you establish a culture of effortless practices and play that is about the worst cancer a sports team can have.

Yes the team isn't very good, and the coach doesn't seem to be helping things, but by far the biggest problem right now is the lack of effort from a lot of our "veteran" players. I'm tired of seeing a large percentage of this team standing around puck watching and not fighting hard in puck battles. They look and play like they don't care, and that will rub off on the youth. If they work their ass off every night and we lose, so be it we're a bad team that needs more talent, but they aren't working their ass off every night.

No one thinks this team is hard to play against, we're a gutless, passive pushover of a team that doesn't play hard and let's the other team dictate the pace of play. We're not the biggest team in the league, but have plenty of guys who had no problem playing hard work hockey in the past.
 

guitarguyvic

Registered User
Mar 31, 2010
8,680
6,797
It amazes me that people can't distinguish between a player who is not performing to standard, a player who is just not talented enough to compete at the nhl level, and systemic team issues.

The entire bottom 6, sans a couple of young guys are a bunch of hacks who probably don't belong in the nhl.

Henrique is producing at his career average, but has not been up to par defensively. Palmieri is not playing up to standard, he's literally falling all over the ice more than Clarkson. Cam is not playing up to standard, possible he has permanently regressed but hard to tell. Cory has not played up to his standard. Hall is no longer living up to expectations either.

So what's on the coaching staff? The talentless hacks in the bottom 6 can't be pinned on them. But dressing them over younger options with more potential, or playing them in key situations is. When multiple players in the top 6 are not playing up to standard and there seems to be no accountability for the subpar performances, that's on them. When there appears to be no team structure on defense or the breakout or in the neutral zone, that's on them. When the PP zone entry strategy looks like s trainwreck, that's on them. This team has no identity, and that's on them.

A competent coaching staff could make an entire team of AHL'ers look at least competent in the defensive end and on the PP.

The other thing is, you can acknowledge that this coaching staff is trash, while also acknowledging that maybe they shouldn't be fired yet and that our roster is lacking. They aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
 

ForeverJerseyGirl

Registered User
Dec 14, 2014
11,854
35
New Jersey
A troubling aspect to me is also that the handful of players who consistently show effort like Wood are recent call-ups. Almost like motivation is drained out of players from prolonged contact with the coaching staff and/or the atmosphere in the locker room. Extremely disturbing and not an environment conducive to young players' development. I respect Wood for the energy and effort he brings on a regular basis, but it is a huge indictment on coaching and team culture that he is so often one of our best players. At least from my perspective.
 

NJDevils#4

Since 2002, bishes
Jul 11, 2002
3,042
329
New Jersey
Visit site
Trade everyone and anyone and fire whomever as far as I'm concerned. I have zero attachment to this roster. Attachment comes through: 1. Winnning 2. Developing from draft and watching a player over time in your system.

We have none of the above on this roster. Already the most attachment on this team is Miles f'in Wood. That's sad, seriously.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->