Series Discussion: ECSF: Capitals vs Penguins (Pens win) (mod warning post 806)

[artilector]

Ovi is the guy that brought me back to watching hockey. So many great moments, and so much promise.

But he's run out of excuses, too. Injuries? He's never really moved his feet in the defensive zone, and he didn't on those Pens goals in Game 7. It's not like he was laboring and the speed just wasn't there. He wasn't laboring.

You could surmise that he was physically limited on offense -- transition offense, specifically, but on defense and on the boards the limitation has always been effort, regardless of his physical condition.

I'm not saying it to pin the loss on him, not at all. But he is a guy that truly needs to be an offensive dynamo to make up for the flaws in his game, and to justify a top salary. This isn't the case any more.

 

[Tweedsuitcase]

This. But I will elevate it to Ted.

When you luck into a first overall pick, you have to look at what else you've got and say, do I have winning leadership? He should have cleaned house the day after Ovie was drafted and brought in proven guys who could build around the new star.

^^^^^ the one thing we didn't have that some of these clubs like Pitt, (and now toronto) is - even with all our first round pics in the lineup - years of sucking and high draft pics. we should have retooled right then and there instead of sticking to "the plan" and slowly rebuilding post-jagr.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

McPhee ****ed them years ago by not recognizing Semin and Green as wimps and letting those assets walk for nothing.

I said it then and I'll say it now, he pissed away a chance at a dynasty with his cluelessness.

Totally agree....now it keeps happening, likely with Alzner.

 

[Langway]

This. But I will elevate it to Ted.

When you luck into a first overall pick, you have to look at what else you've got and say, do I have winning leadership? He should have cleaned house the day after Ovie was drafted and brought in proven guys who could build around the new star.

Yep. This incompetence also leads to desperately clutching to a core. Without an organizational standard there's nothing but clinging to what you've got. Hope is not a plan. It's never critical or growth-oriented enough. All Leonsis knows how to do as an owner is market and hype. He doesn't know how to patiently build an organization beyond whatever he gets via tanking and then eventually fast-tracking to limited results. He trusts mediocre GMs until the end of time that never have the fortitude to build truly dominant teams because that kind of thinking isn't essential. He sets the standard and all too readily is content with mediocrity.

Breaking up the core means admitting failure and I doubt they're ready for it. And yet they also probably aren't ready to improve practices either so here we are.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

This. But I will elevate it to Ted.

When you luck into a first overall pick, you have to look at what else you've got and say, do I have winning leadership? He should have cleaned house the day after Ovie was drafted and brought in proven guys who could build around the new star.

Let's be realistic. They had just sold off every player of value. How would they instantly surround him by proven guys? Were they supposed to go on a massive UFA buying binge before his rookie season? They did it right in his early years mostly. They let him take a young team from pretender to contender and his teammates grew up with him largely. My biggest beef is that they should have traded for Fedorov much earlier. Seemed to be one of the few guys Ovy revered. He got here too late to have a more profound impact on Ovy's maturation as a player/leader. So yeah I guess I partially agree, but they weren't in a position surround him with those guys instantly. Remember it's not like the Caps were a desired destination by UFAs as a cellar dweller. Edit: just reread your post. You mean proven team builders? So this goes back to firing McPhee Ovy's rookie year? He was a pretty well regarded guy, seems unlikely. Also I wonder who was proven and available back then? Craig Patrick?

 

[RandyHolt]

Huh?

He was crap for months before the Kadri hit.

No doubt. He hit for a few weeks near the end of the season, and then it stopped. I figure he got injured then, in his attempt to ramp it for the playoffs. I'll guess it was the hammy.

Before the playoffs started he had 2 or 3 ESG in ~ 20 games. PPGs are but bandaids at this point. The energy enthusiasm and characteristic speed on the rush, was largely missing the entire year. Maybe even closer to years.

 

[third man in]

I feel sick. I was confident after games 5-6 they were going to run the table. And then that happened to the ****ing penguins.

The Caps will always be my team. I'm just much more detached than I used to be. I want a retool but doubt ted will make any real changes.

 

[Bladerunner]

I was tired after I got home from the game last night. Read a page or two in this thread and soon after went to bed. I won't read all 30+ pages but will jump around and make some comments... to get the disappointment out of my system.

Bye Caps. I'm out.

Too much time, money, and emotion has been invested with so little return. Thanks Ted, et al., for killing my passion for hockey. The one good thing that came out of last night was a reassurance that cancelling my season tickets was the right thing to do.

Godspeed to those of you that are masochistic enough to stick with them, and a genuine thanks to many of you for what was, for many years, the best place to talk hockey.

You too. The just under 14% price hike for my lower corner 400s made it easy too.

The people that shared/bought tix from me dried up as the prices kept increasing. It was becoming a pt job selling tix. You can't get much more than 20-25 (after re seller fees) for many weekday games vs meh teams. So what are you really paying for the weekend games vs the PA teams, Rags, and the occasional exception?

We won't know for years, but last night was, in many ways, the end of an era.

 

[Jags]

I'll watch games here and there next season, but will continue to not give a **** as long as the organization doesn't give a ****.

I don't see that the organization doesn't care. They spend to the cap, assembled a pretty great team, and came up short.

The excuses and blame we're tossing around here are just as empty as the ones the players mustered after the game last night.

Blame the GM. Ted's a loser. Ovi's now officially old/lazy. "The core" is terrible. The coach didn't do this. They players didn't do that. This guy's injured. That guy gave 100% but got no help.

Great teams lose all the time. They get topped by greater teams or manage to sabotage themselves (though it's usually a healthy dose of both).

Everyone's to blame. And if the Pens win it all again, we'll have basically finished tied for 2nd like we probably have a few times before.

If you're not here next year because you don't think that's good enough or you're just plain tired of it, I wish you well.

I'm looking forward to an eventful offseason. Very curious to see how all these moving pieces fall

 

[RandyHolt]

It killed me to see Pitt's breakouts in game 7. Crisp, uncontested on both sides, up the center of the ice at speed. We were stuck mucking up the boards 1 on 3 over and over, every puck contested. It's all coaching.

Barry just seems loathe to try new things in the regular season. Out of desperation he goes 7D and all but gives up on his bottom 6. In the end, it failed, outcoached once again. His system got punked. Demoting Ovi was good for a spark but lets not sugar coat it as a brilliant coaching move. Ovi was horrible in the games before that. He should have also demoted Eller, and promoted Beagle who came to life. Beagle 8-0 faceoffs in game 7 after a strong game 6, I think he had 8TOI. It's little things, he seems scared to try. Pitt sat 2 injured regulars for game 7 usually unthinkable to many coaches that think they are better with 1 arm, vs their farm teams best alternative. Meanwhile, our injured guy played and was -2.

So the Pens rotate no name players in, and they never miss a beat and are easy to see. Look at their Wilson last night, great scoring chance in front, then fights Orpik.... we pray Carey is invisible and doesn't get a minus in his 6 minutes in the series. Vrana and the rest, we don't dare try. Every year.

Wow, was the stage set proper for a monumental choke job. This one was a real beauty. They sucked us back in, only to get shutout. Dominating in shots and everything else other than scoring, as per usual. I cannot believe we are the king of game 7 chokers - just our ****ing luck. At home no less. Usually vs the Pens, is just another nail in the coffin.

Fans Must Live aka FML

 

[g00n]

Sullivan clearly watched tape of the Toronto series and pinched the walls like they did. You could see the Pens jumping/baiting passes at some point in the 1st period when the momentum turned. I noted it several times in the GDT and I'm beating the dead horse here.

Point being, BOTH goals against us last night were the result of those bad breakouts and the Caps skating right into the Pens "trap". Several other turnovers that could've been goals were thwarted by luck or Holtby.

The failure of the coaching staff to notice and adjust cost this team game 7 and the series. That's the bottom line. We can talk about the early series games until we're blue in the face but the coaching staff are not innocent in those losses, either.

Trotz has to go. Then the GM must hire a new coach and begin building a roster along with the coach, and that roster must be consistent with the vision they both share for the team.

 

[artilector]

So what really changed from Games 5/6 to Game 7?

I mean, it seems unlikely that sealing the walls, or doing good breakouts, is something that the Pens invented for Game 7. Why were the Caps able to overcome this before but not in the last game?

For now, it seems to me that the simplest explanation is that Pens added 5% to their team speed (and execution) in an elimination game, and that was enough to tip the balance, which had a domino effect on other facets of the game.

 

[kicksavedave]

So what really changed from Games 5/6 to Game 7?

I mean, it seems unlikely that sealing the walls, or doing good breakouts, is something that the Pens invented for Game 7. Why were the Caps able to overcome this before but not in the last game?

For now, it seems to me that the simplest explanation is that Pens added 5% to their team speed (and execution) in an elimination game, and that was enough to tip the balance, which had a domino effect on other facets of the game.

All those issues with breakouts was much less about strategy and much more about forechecking hustle and desire, or in our case lack thereof. I think it was apparent that the Pens simply stepped up their effort level in game 7. The Pens wanted that game much more than the Caps did.

 

[Portable Mink]

Hmmm….
I have been a Caps fan since about 2000. Started playing NHL 99 with friends and we all had to pick our teams. I chose the Caps because I loved Bondra. I’ve seen us go through the hard working but less talented Caps, to drafting Ovi and suddenly getting an influx of talent and transforming into a skill team and then that skilled team being used as a defensive team (hi Dale) and then obviously, all the rest as well. Getting Ovi was the best thing to happen to this franchise. It’s now one of the big markets and gets a lot of coverage and winter classics etc. due to us having Ovi. He is a legend of the game, probably the best pure goal scorer in history but he is also flawed, like all players.

Ovi is a talent player rather than a thinking player. He relies on his physical skills and his raw power to do what he does best. This has been and always will be amazing to watch. So strong, so powerful, so dangerous. He is simply the best ever at what he does best. That said, his flaws stand out. He is ‘one sided’ which is the best way I can describe it…. Unable to make plays whichever way his body is facing. He needs the rush, his elusiveness and escapability is restricted to the rush. Defensively he is slow to react and read the play and kind of lost. However, the biggest thing I think that hurts his game now is that he was never really coached to develop the mental part of his game. So many of his plays are over before they begin, so many and easily broken up and if his first or second option are closed up, he either tries to force it or rushes a decision.

I’m not having a go at Ovi. Like I said, he’s one of the best players to play the game. But he IS a power forward winger. He is capable of doing things no one else can do, yes, but his repertoire was not extended much beyond this. Due to complaints about his defensive play, he rarely takes part in a down low cycle. Almost afraid of being caught down to low which never happens anymore. Any line he is on, the other guys will be down low and he simply does not play within that lines system. I don’t understand why this is so. It CAN be coached. Why is it not? Why does his game not evolve as he gets older? Why is he pigeonholed into what he has become now? Yes, you need to utilise his skills like when he was younger and yes perhaps reigning it in a little bit was required, but THAT’S WHAT HES GOOD AT. Hitting, driving to the net with the puck, causing chaos, being in deep and making the opposition worry about a stretch pass to him.

How did the Penguins score half their goals? By doing what Ovi grew up doing and what the Penguins early on would have on their boards about him cherry picking (road to winter classic). I don’t want my Ovi not cycling the puck because he’s scared of being caught in deep, I don’t want him floating around the D zone doing average coverage and not looking for an offensive chance to blow the zone, THIS IS HOW HE BECAME THE BEST. I know one thing as a result of all this though. If we ever had another chance to get a generational talent to our club, we would want it to be a defender or a centre. No slight on Ovi. I would not change his career with us. I love Ovi and always will, but smart, cerebral players at the highest level in the C & D positions seem to be the anchors for cup winning teams. Maybe this is coming across as an attack on Ovi. It’s not. I am just frustrated that whilst he will never be the Ovi that terrorised the league in his youth, a backup play for later in his career was not developed and nurtured. It seems to be a bit of an afterthought and half assed attempt rather than actually helping him change and mature.

But the Caps man….. I’m just gutted. I live in Melbourne, Australia and the only other Caps fan I know is my ex-girlfriend who I don’t speak to anymore. I have some friends who are at varying levels of hockey fans but because I am passionate about it, a lot of them hate the Caps and Ovi and I am not fond of copping the cheap attacks I get or see. I don’t need that negativity in my life. I don’t respond anymore but when I was younger, sure, id react and get sucked in. I suffer alone here and that’s the reason why I am posting this here and coming here to try and heal my wounds. I travelled from Berlin to New York to Washington last playoffs just to watch the Caps. My first and only 2 games I’ve ever seen. Spend a lot of money to see game 1 and 2 against the Flyers and lost my **** seeing more than 1 other person in a Caps jersey. It melted me. But here I am solo in my yearly pain. I know it’s just a game. I do. I know I shouldn’t be invested in this so much but I just love hockey and my team more than I love a lot of things. It’s just my thing. Everyone has their thing. Hockey and the Caps have been mine. I laugh a bit to my relatively new girlfriend who sees how much I care about it and its slightly embarrassing but I don’t get mad anymore if we lose or anything… I just truck on until we lose in game 7s and to the pens again and again and it just crushes my heart. I try not to let anyone see it but it hurts because I ride all the highs and lows of the team with them, as I’m sure many of you do.

This season I pretty much didn’t care about the regular season for obvious reasons. Playoffs hit and game 1 and I knew nothing had changed. Then we won against Toronto who are a solid team, well coached and I thought maybe we are changing. Then we struggle out of the game against the Pens and winning game 5 was nice but to play how we did in game 6, again, I thought we suddenly figured it out. We all know how that has ended.
So where to from here?

Well I can’t care about the regular season again. Why bother? I’ll see when it comes around how I feel but I’ll be at the very least as distant as I was this season. Then if we make playoffs I guess I will take the same approach as the season. I will watch from behind a glass wall. Expect only the worst and not get my hopes up. I can’t not follow this team at least a little. I can’t swap teams ever, I can’t leave a hole in my hockey heart either. I am just over being associated with such a failing, choking, mentally weak team. It affects me and I feel embarrassed. I will limit my suffering and just talk to you fans when I want to talk hockey because no one outside understands what it’s like to be a Caps fan.

 

[Portable Mink]

sorry for the vent. had to clear my system of it.

 

[g00n]

So what really changed from Games 5/6 to Game 7?

I mean, it seems unlikely that sealing the walls, or doing good breakouts, is something that the Pens invented for Game 7. Why were the Caps able to overcome this before but not in the last game?

For now, it seems to me that the simplest explanation is that Pens added 5% to their team speed (and execution) in an elimination game, and that was enough to tip the balance, which had a domino effect on other facets of the game.

It was a focus in game 7 that wasn't a factor in the previous games and it was the clear difference on the scoreboard. I think this was also noted on the broadcast at some point. It was a definite, strategic adjustment that mirrored what Toronto did early in that series.

The Capitals played a much better, smarter game that used all of the ice in games 5 and 6. Their breakouts were less predictable and were more dynamic. The same could be said for almost all of what they did in those two games, but once they started predictably playing conservative following the adrenaline dump early in game 7 the Pens coaches recognized what the Caps were doing and countered it. Trotz had no answer.

It was made even more likely because the Pens defensive pressure was cranked up a notch. They started flipping the script on the Caps and overloading while putting 2 players on the puck and then cutting off the boards knowing the rattled, nervous Capitals would just fling it around the wall.

The correct in-game adjustment would've been to have the Caps focus on support closer to the puck as well as moving the puck sooner if possible. Then look for the weakside guy who's open due to the numbers game, or to the cutter up the middle who's FINDING a passing lane instead of going to a set spot on the boards that's no longer there.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Let's be realistic. They had just sold off every player of value. How would they instantly surround him by proven guys? Were they supposed to go on a massive UFA buying binge before his rookie season? They did it right in his early years mostly. They let him take a young team from pretender to contender and his teammates grew up with him largely. My biggest beef is that they should have traded for Fedorov much earlier. Seemed to be one of the few guys Ovy revered. He got here too late to have a more profound impact on Ovy's maturation as a player/leader. So yeah I guess I partially agree, but they weren't in a position surround him with those guys instantly. Remember it's not like the Caps were a desired destination by UFAs as a cellar dweller. Edit: just reread your post. You mean proven team builders? So this goes back to firing McPhee Ovy's rookie year? He was a pretty well regarded guy, seems unlikely. Also I wonder who was proven and available back then? Craig Patrick?

Pittsburgh added 2 hall of fame forwards to their roster within Crosby's first 3 years. Not surprisingly, they made it as far as the Finals. They won the next year with even more impressive additions -Guerin, Kunitz and Satan.

We were in a position to surround him with those same winners. We chose Viktor Kozlov and Brendan Morrison.

 

[Mickstix]

So what really changed from Games 5/6 to Game 7?

I mean, it seems unlikely that sealing the walls, or doing good breakouts, is something that the Pens invented for Game 7. Why were the Caps able to overcome this before but not in the last game?

I think the entire game turned when Orlov went for that neutral zone poke and Malkin walked in for what should of been the 1st goal.. After that it seemed like they had a moment of "Oh no, almost Caps" and just lost all confidence and the ability to make fast/crisp/accurate d-zone exits and basically mailed it in from there..

 

[peterthegreat12]

Blow it up.

As long as the same core is here, I will have no hope.

At least with a young team in a re-build, they are building towards something.

 

[hb12xchamps]

instead of commenting the same old "let's blow it up" and "fire trotz" start coming up with hypothetical trades and coaching scenarios.
I'm
For example, Canes were rumored to be shopping Hanifin if I remember correctly. Maybe a deal can be made with Mojo for Hanifin? Of course that's just the baseline.

Realistic coaching candidates include Reirden, Sutter, Bylsma, and Ruff. I'm sure there are some up and comers that have shots at getting a job. Troy Mann also a long shot outsider. I'd see him becoming an assistant first and taking over the coaching of the D. Bob Woods is another name thats an outsider.

Edit: thought I was still in the roster building thread. Maybe a mid can move my post there

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

sorry for the vent. had to clear my system of it.

All good man, everyone here is going through the same thing.

The most telling thing to me in all this was how quickly I got over it. I guess I'm just immune to it by this point.

 

[RandyHolt]

One thing I saw all playoffs, was a strong slot and net from presence vs Holtby. This is hardly anything new, as the playoffs roll around. Toronto used it for goals so effectively it had Holts on tilt.

What else is not new, is us not partaking. Even up 6 on 5 on a delayed penalty, and with Holts pulled last night, and all year really in those same situations, we don't park that extra guy in front. I loved that Doc called us out on it on the delayed penalty.

I would love to have a guy like Hornqvist. Or, a coach that utilized our guys the way Sully does. Babcock with his AHL grinders. Pretty goals just don't fly in the playoffs. Maybe one game out of 14 features a bunch of glamour goals. You need to get dirty in front when the going gets tough. That was last night, and we had no one in front. Heck, we could barely even get Holts out of the net. It was ugly.

Ovi in front was Barry's remedy to the fact he sucks on the boards and cannot cycle, but he simply is not dominant in front. It's not him, hands in tight. He needs to fire one timers. Standing in front didn't really lead to goals any time he tried it all year. Ovi needs a coach to help him evolve his game, while getting the other players that cannot score with a superior shot, to be the guys in front. Barry had it exactly backwards.

 

[artilector]

All good man, everyone here is going through the same thing.

The most telling thing to me in all this was how quickly I got over it. I guess I'm just immune to it by this point.

Same for me here. Being a Caps fan has taught me that there's a price to pay to reach zen, lol

 

[RandyHolt]

How about our Red Rockers posting the choke signal picture on their facebook right as the game ended.

 

[Capsman]

Normally I enjoy watching the NHL channel, can't bear to watch a dissection of the Caps' series loss or a look ahead to upcoming series. Been a Caps fan since Dennis Maruk was advertising Sasson Jeans and I haven't gotten used to anything, I'm still feeling the pain. Maybe even more so because an era I had such high hopes for may be coming to an end.

Was thinking today about a scenario where we completely gut the team and win a SC, say, 5 years from now. Sure I would be happy, but the hurt of OV and Backstrom never making it to the ECFs would always be there. Just like the pain of my 80's and 90's teams still lingers.