Series Discussion: ECQF: Capitals vs. Leafs pt2 (Caps Win 4-2) (Leafs fans READ POST #1)

[BobRouse]

I see a lot of people here have started hitting the pipe...bench Holtby?????

Has everyone here turned into Boston level over reacting fans???

So...because 4 games in which the Caps got horrific bounces we should bench a vezina winning goalie who has been stellar in the playoffs for us since his very 1st game??

Awful. This reminds me of the "buy out Ovie" movement

Knee jerk irrational reactions of this level must be reserved for the most odious of fan bases.

I get it. You guys are frustrated we've given up 14 goals in 4 games and need to find a scapegoat (we don't have Mike Green anymore)

But gotta get a grip. No chance Holtby doesn't get every start for the entirety of the playoffs unless he gets hurt or ill.

 

[Jags]

Didn't he win a playoff game last year or the year before when Holtby was sick?

Yeah. He gave up 3 on 21 shots versus the Isles.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

When he plays like crap, Holtby always bounces back with a stellar performance. If we get past the Leafs, expect to see him in God mode vs the Pens.

 

[marcel snapshot]

It was 2 years ago. Agree that talk of Grubby for Holts isn't warranted and very unsure about whether Grubby could handle such a high-pressure assignment. But Holts and Mitch Korn need to come up with a strategy here

 

[Portable Mink]

I blame the defense far more than Holtby.

For years we have had decent first shots and never get to rebounds.
Yet every team we play in the playoffs seems to get to them and create chaos in front of our tenders.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I see a lot of people here have started hitting the pipe...bench Holtby?????

Has everyone here turned into Boston level over reacting fans???

So...because 4 games in which the Caps got horrific bounces we should bench a vezina winning goalie who has been stellar in the playoffs for us since his very 1st game??

Awful. This reminds me of the "buy out Ovie" movement

Knee jerk irrational reactions of this level must be reserved for the most odious of fan bases.

I get it. You guys are frustrated we've given up 14 goals in 4 games and need to find a scapegoat (we don't have Mike Green anymore)

But gotta get a grip. No chance Holtby doesn't get every start for the entirety of the playoffs unless he gets hurt or ill.

So if he comes out and poops the bed in the 1st period, Grubby comes in and plays lights out and wins the game, you think it's 100% a lock Holtby starts the next game? I'm not so sure.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Holtby won't crap the bed, I'd put my money on it. He's proud, he's always calm and composed after each game no matter what the outcome is. He's got the best goalie coach in the world to prepare him.

His teammates bailed him out in game 4, he owes them one and he'll make sure to steal a game for them if it comes to that.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

So if he comes out and poops the bed in the 1st period, Grubby comes in and plays lights out and wins the game, you think it's 100% a lock Holtby starts the next game? I'm not so sure.

Grubby to finish the leafs then back to Holtby for game one vs Pitt on a short leach.

 

[usiel]

Again its not really about that they are getting some luck ...its about them getting a disproportionate amount of luck.

Of their 14 goals I could understand if 3 or 4 were due to fortunate bounces. The puck does that! However by my count its more like 10-12 of their goals were due to some wacky bounce. That's abnormal and I think we can all agree here.

Lot of us on this board have been watching playoff hockey for many years so don't see how anyone can disagree on the mad amount of puck luck the Leafs have had.

 

[RandyHolt]

Hearing upwards of 12 goals (all?) can be attributed to luck, its obvious some define luck differently.

It's normal to credit our own goals as a result of a great play, and always downplay the goals we allow. Never credit the scorer, we instead blame our own player, or pull out the bad luck fan card.

Eventually, after nearly every goal over 4 games, the opposition deserves some credit. Long time fans know, it doesn't happen

 

[troyerlaw]

I was at the hockey rink for my kids' practice this afternoon, and I talked to a former goalie who has played at a high level. He watched some of the caps game yesterday, his opinion is that Holtby has an injury on the right side of his body - upper leg, groin, hip, something. He said he wasn't moving the way he normally does.

Anyway, I guess time will tell. If that is the case, Holts and coaches will address it and make a decision at what point it is jeopardizing the team.

 

[Jags]

Hearing upwards of 12 goals (all?) can be attributed to luck, its obvious some define luck differently.

I went through them this afternoon, and seven clearly either went in off a weird bounce or were directly preceded by an odd bounce that would have thrown any keeper off balance.

About half were the type that you see in just about every game -- unintentional deflections and flukey changes of pace. But when you consider it's literally half their goals and the Caps haven't had much like that at all, you almost have to conclude that...

1) The Leafs are getting it to the net at all costs, and playing well in front of the net.

2) The Caps should probably do the same.

3) The Caps need to give Holtby clear sightlines and start raking the leaves in front of the net.

4) Yeah, the Leafs have been getting pretty damn lucky.​

So it's not ALL just plain luck and there ARE things we could be doing to minimize that crap, but yeah, they've gotten a number of really lucky bounces that would have led to goals versus any netminder.

When you also figure in those blown oops-where's-my-stick? plays by Niskanen and Carlson, it's plain to see there were AT LEAST four goals in the series that you can't blame Holtby for. What's left would yield stats we'd generally be happy with and easily good enough to expect wins.

You can't put those losses on Holtby. The whole damn team needed to be better. He's no more to blame than anyone else, has a pretty heroic track record, and shouldn't be benched in favor of a sheltered backup.

 

[Raikkonen]

Fun fact. Kuzy has the most TOI of all forwards.

If one would take into account only ES TOI - he's first too, having minute and a half on Mojo and a bit more than 2 minutes more than next one - Oshie.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Fun fact. Kuzy has the most TOI of all forwards.

If one would take into account only ES TOI - he's first too, having minute and a half on Mojo and a bit more than 2 minutes more than next one - Oshie.

Doesn't surprise me. In the 2OT game, Trotz kept sending him out and he appeared to have more energy than any other Cap. Him being lean and having a very efficient skating technique, he will almost always have more gas in the tank at the end of 60.

 

[Portable Mink]

I went through them this afternoon, and seven clearly either went in off a weird bounce or were directly preceded by an odd bounce that would have thrown any keeper off balance.

About half were the type that you see in just about every game -- unintentional deflections and flukey changes of pace. But when you consider it's literally half their goals and the Caps haven't had much like that at all, you almost have to conclude that...

1) The Leafs are getting it to the net at all costs, and playing well in front of the net.

2) The Caps should probably do the same.

3) The Caps need to give Holtby clear sightlines and start raking the leaves in front of the net.

4) Yeah, the Leafs have been getting pretty damn lucky.​

So it's not ALL just plain luck and there ARE things we could be doing to minimize that crap, but yeah, they've gotten a number of really lucky bounces that would have led to goals versus any netminder.

When you also figure in those blown oops-where's-my-stick? plays by Niskanen and Carlson, it's plain to see there were AT LEAST four goals in the series that you can't blame Holtby for. What's left would yield stats we'd generally be happy with and easily good enough to expect wins.

You can't put those losses on Holtby. The whole damn team needed to be better. He's no more to blame than anyone else, has a pretty heroic track record, and shouldn't be benched in favor of a sheltered backup.

thanks for doing the painful review!

 

[Skrudland2Lomakin]

I was at the hockey rink for my kids' practice this afternoon, and I talked to a former goalie who has played at a high level. He watched some of the caps game yesterday, his opinion is that Holtby has an injury on the right side of his body - upper leg, groin, hip, something. He said he wasn't moving the way he normally does.

Anyway, I guess time will tell. If that is the case, Holts and coaches will address it and make a decision at what point it is jeopardizing the team.

I think the team has enough faith in Grubauer that if Holtby really was hurt they wouldn't hesitate letting Grubby take a shot at it, especially if we aren't looking down the barrel of an elimination game.


I think Hotlby has honestly been victim of an absurd amount of a crazy bounces. I do think he could play better, but I don't think his play is horrendous, he's just not up to the standards we have for him.

 

[SpinningEdge]

holts will be fine. Not worried about him one single bit. We are tied 2-2 and have home ice. We got this.

 

[Devil Dancer]

The Leafs haven't scored a really bad goal on Holtby yet that I can recall. That's a pretty low bar, and it would be great if Holts could steal a game in this series, but that's better than many NHL goalies do in playoff series.

The seeding is so frustrating. If the Caps were playing the Sens in round 2 Holtby would be able to reset himself against a poor offensive team. Instead it's right back into the fire in Pittsburgh, if the Caps even advance.

 

[deadpenguin]

It's not like Holtby to give up 3-4 goals a game, especially in the playoffs. I still think he looks better than Andersen, who is letting in the much more "average goalie" goals that Holtby would almost always have, whereas Holts is dealing with tons of deflections and some very unlucky bounces on the rebound saves. It's just been such a chaotic and free flowing series that I think is the reason for Holtby's struggles. I don't know why people are that worried about the pens after this showing, if anything I would expect Holtby to bounce back to his old form against a team with a structured offense that he knows and in which he faces shots he's better used to seeing

This leaf team has proved to be much more difficult to defeat than originally thought. But it's still not like they're even close to being as good as us. They're just pesky, fast little ***** that we need to stamp out already but keep just evading our grasp. It's literally men against boys out there, act like it.

 

[IvanMalison]

spotsnet lol http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/razor-thin-series-leaves-capitals-worried-bad-bounces/

 

[Bananas]

Anyone acting overconfident about our chances to win this series is fooling themselves. It's anyone's for the taking. The Caps are gonna have to earn this for sure. Hopefully they do I'm feeling good about their chances of playing well. The results are up to the Hockey Gods ...

Someday they will release us from our bonds. Then, and only then, will we see the promised land of round 3.

 

[stanleycaps18]

Anyone acting overconfident about our chances to win this series is fooling themselves. It's anyone's for the taking. The Caps are gonna have to earn this for sure. Hopefully they do I'm feeling good about their chances of playing well. The results are up to the Hockey Gods ...

Someday they will release us from our bonds. Then, and only then, will we see the promised land of round 3.

This.

 

[John Price]

Holtby is too inconsistent. But I give him a leash.

 

[Roshi]

Dont worry guys (and girls), we are gonna win today.

We lost 2 because i didnt have the chance to follow my gameday routines and drink my daily coffees from my magic Caps cup. We havent lost a game when im using it and there is no way ill put us through losing this one.

Sorry for the two losses!

 

[BobRouse]

So if he comes out and poops the bed in the 1st period, Grubby comes in and plays lights out and wins the game, you think it's 100% a lock Holtby starts the next game? I'm not so sure.

I am 100% sure. Teams just don't do this when they have a true #1 goalie who has had a excellent playoff track record and has become an annual vezina contender in his prime.

It will create unneeded controversy and distraction and it is highly unfair to a young goalie in Grubauer who has exactly 1 playoff game experience.

This is not Jose Theodore we are talking about. This is Braden Holtby who is a top 3-5 goalie in the world who hasn't even given up a single "soft" goal.

Lot of us on this board have been watching playoff hockey for many years so don't see how anyone can disagree on the mad amount of puck luck the Leafs have had.

Trotz is even saying it and most pundits agree. We can see it when the Caps get the luck (not often) and honestly admit it so we should also do it the other way around but I sense bitterness towards the team from the fanbase clouds the judgment. Not entirely unjustified b/c people want to make sense of the Caps always getting such bad breaks.

Hearing upwards of 12 goals (all?) can be attributed to luck, its obvious some define luck differently.

It's normal to credit our own goals as a result of a great play, and always downplay the goals we allow. Never credit the scorer, we instead blame our own player, or pull out the bad luck fan card.

Eventually, after nearly every goal over 4 games, the opposition deserves some credit. Long time fans know, it doesn't happen

Again...its the AMOUNT of the luck. You said it yourself...4 games...that's a small sample size in the grand scheme of things. Tiny infact. A team can easily get a disproportionate amount of luck in such a span.