ECHL to 30 Teams?

Lake Simcoe Travels

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Is there any hope that Norfolk Admirals get a new affiliation agreement anytime soon? The ownership group is new. What's the issue if any? I understand having an affiliation doesn't necessarily help personnel wise but the impression on the fans certainly helps.
 
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CHRDANHUTCH

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Is there any hope that Norfolk Admirals get an affiliation agreement anytime soon? The ownership group is new. What's the issue?
what do you mean about an affiliation agreement or an issue? not everyone is interested perhaps in aligning with Norfolk or it's not geographically a fit with those who do not subscribe to what the ECHL offers to be affiliated because it drives up the expense of the franchise.

what NHL Team is interested specifically in Norfolk..... that doesn't already have an existing agreement with an existing team, opt out or not.

they just chose to be independent after Nashville cut ties, it has nothing to do with who the ownership is in Norfolk.

the Capitals worked with them prior to their ascension to the AHL and subsequent change to the Blackhawks, then Tampa, then Anaheim, which bought the franchise and relocated it to San Diego.... the current iteration of the Admirals came from Bakersfield, an Edmonton affiliate until they swapped the Condors franchise to Norfolk when Anaheim bought the AHL Version, the Ducks had no owner/operation investment in Norfolk.

the ECHL allows independents, the AHL does not.

2) Savannah comes aboard in 2022/23 so there goes another affiliation.
 

210

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Is there any hope that Norfolk Admirals get a new affiliation agreement anytime soon? The ownership group is new. What's the issue if any? I understand having an affiliation doesn't necessarily help personnel wise but the impression on the fans certainly helps.

I think with the new ownership group NHL/AHL teams would be more receptive to a potential affiliation there. I think some arena upgrades would help too, but that seems to be unlikely for now.
 
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Atlantian

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According to this article, Binghamton is having disputes with their arena and could be moving to Utica following the 21-22 season. The arena spokesperson said that they would not have trouble finding a hockey team as a tenant. Binghamton has been an AHL market for years, but do you see it dropping down like Worcester, Portland, and Adirondack?
Potential move of AHL teams puts future of hockey in Binghamton in question
 

210

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According to this article, Binghamton is having disputes with their arena and could be moving to Utica following the 21-22 season. The arena spokesperson said that they would not have trouble finding a hockey team as a tenant. Binghamton has been an AHL market for years, but do you see it dropping down like Worcester, Portland, and Adirondack?
Potential move of AHL teams puts future of hockey in Binghamton in question
They were in the UHL for a number of years, so I think it's very possible they could move to the ECHL, especially if they waited a year. With a group already in place at the AHL level they probably wouldn't be forced to do so by the ECHL, but it might be in their best interest to do it anyway.
 

Atlantian

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They were in the UHL for a number of years, so I think it's very possible they could move to the ECHL, especially if they waited a year. With a group already in place at the AHL level they probably wouldn't be forced to do so by the ECHL, but it might be in their best interest to do it anyway.
I think it is a great spot for a team if the AHL abandons the city. Within 7 hours bus of all NE teams and Wheeling (not Newfie), and I am sure fans are looking for stability after changing names and teams several times over their several decades long AHL history.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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According to this article, Binghamton is having disputes with their arena and could be moving to Utica following the 21-22 season. The arena spokesperson said that they would not have trouble finding a hockey team as a tenant. Binghamton has been an AHL market for years, but do you see it dropping down like Worcester, Portland, and Adirondack?
Potential move of AHL teams puts future of hockey in Binghamton in question
nope, they did try the UHL at one point, Atlantian... before the Senators arrived there.

2) the AHL rarely allows 2 teams to share a market, never mind a territory.... it's why Providence didn't return for fifteen years after 50 years which preceded the creation of the AHL, AS THE then Rhode Island Reds were founded in 1926, which is today's Hartford Wolf*Pack, if it wasn't for that relocation to a group in Binghamton, in 1977, it's unlikely Hartford exists today.... the genesis was Spectra (which owns Portland outright) AND to a lesser extent, Hartford, which is why the Rangers affiliation is here since the arrival of the ECHL in Portland in 2018.

that genesis was Rhode Island was going to split arenas with the AHL Mariners, but Spectra owns that territory here so that's why the Reds became the Binghamton Dusters, then Whalers, Rangers and then the subsequent sale/relocation of the Hartford Whalers (Carolina Hurricanes) allowed the Rangers to shift from Binghamton to Hartford... in fact, the operator of the Devils that is the liason between Binghamton and New Jersey... also was a part of that transition from Binghamton to Hartford... and that is Tom Mitchell, and when the Senators made their intention to leave Binghamton for Belleville, he's that check.

New Jersey, like Calgary's affiliation history, is so off the charts at times, posters could write books on it, tbth...

the genesis of that Devils history is, they bought the AHL Mariners in 1982-83, from Spectra indirectly, relocated it to Utica in 1987, which lasted until 1993, so it's been posted, but New Jersey then took an interest in the Islanders AHL Franchise in Albany (this was well before Bridgeport was even considered, as the successor to New Haven, whereas that Coliseum no longer active, and now to the annals of history) .... now the Islanders AHL Affiliate WAS at RPI and was then flipped to the Times Union Center in Albany.... along with Al Lawrence and Walter Robb under the Capital District Sports banner.... which brought the Albany/Adirondack rivalry to full boil. the Devils later traded the Albany River Rats, to Carolina, who later bought the franchise and license to Charlotte, and that's how the Checkers went up from the ECHL to the AHL, to the present day.

New Jersey then shifted their focus from Albany to Lowell, which is why the decree that no matter the market, the term "Devils" HAD to be part of any branding....Lowell then was summarily terminated due to an insistence by the trustees of the U MASS system decreed that the Riverhawks collegiate team in Hockey East would be the sole tenant of the Tsongas Center/Arena. so the Devils turned back to Albany, then Binghamton, when the decision referenced earlier by Ottawa to go to Belleville...

now the key to this is that Esche is the one who filed the trademark rights to the Devils branding, it doesn't mention either Vancouver, who owns the Comets franchise, or the Comets themselves.

the AHL has not received a request from either, Vancouver, the Comets, or Esche as to where this scenario will eventually resolve.
 

JMCx4

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I think it is a great spot for a team if the AHL abandons the city. Within 7 hours bus of all NE teams and Wheeling (not Newfie), and I am sure fans are looking for stability after changing names and teams several times over their several decades long AHL history.
Your travel argument is FAR more convincing than your stability argument. Go with your strength.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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I think it is a great spot for a team if the AHL abandons the city. Within 7 hours bus of all NE teams and Wheeling (not Newfie), and I am sure fans are looking for stability after changing names and teams several times over their several decades long AHL history.
Mohawk Valley (Utica) was a rival of the BC Icemen, in the same league (UHL)

I think it is a great spot for a team if the AHL abandons the city. Within 7 hours bus of all NE teams and Wheeling (not Newfie), and I am sure fans are looking for stability after changing names and teams several times over their several decades long AHL history.
the AHL isn't going to allow either Binghamton or Utica to quickly fade from their league anytime soon..... Vancouver needs a city if this rumor comes to pass, nevermind an ownership group if Esche remains in Utica
 
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Atlantian

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Your travel argument is FAR more convincing than your stability argument. Go with your strength.
Averaging about 3500 through the past three seasons isn’t horrible. I think renewed rivalries from former AHL teams could help. Or we could have another Manchester. If they were to lose the AHL I think it could work. And it evens out the north and puts another team in the middle of their geographical footprint so it helps everyone else too. Plus, this is all speculation, as is everything on this thread.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Averaging about 3500 through the past three seasons isn’t horrible. I think renewed rivalries from former AHL teams could help. Or we could have another Manchester. If they were to lose the AHL I think it could work. And it evens out the north and puts another team in the middle of their geographical footprint so it helps everyone else too. Plus, this is all speculation, as is everything on this thread.
which market Binghamton?

it's doubtful it would succeed and if Tom Mitchell wants to remain involved with that from the Binghamton side who would dare affiliate knowing that Mitchell is already having issues with a franchise he doesn't own, just operate.

you're also forgetting the AHL bylaw that Vancouver has not stated its intention to dissolve the contract with the Comets franchise, which they own....

there's no close team in the Southern Tier in the ECHL ALL of the teams are AHL based, Atlantian... where does a potential ECHL Franchise come from if the dispute is between Mitchell and the Devils.... if Esche lands the Devils affiliation...

Utica likely isn't a consideration to drop a league, either....
 
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CHRDANHUTCH

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the AHL has been informed that the Devils will be leaving Binghamton or Newark, in this case after 2021, but nothing further about where the franchise will be relocated to....

Utica, for those unaware, is in the option year of a 3 series set of 2 year renewals but the choice has to be exercised by the Canucks, not the Comets or Esche specifically...
 

royals119

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Averaging about 3500 through the past three seasons isn’t horrible. I think renewed rivalries from former AHL teams could help. Or we could have another Manchester. If they were to lose the AHL I think it could work. And it evens out the north and puts another team in the middle of their geographical footprint so it helps everyone else too. Plus, this is all speculation, as is everything on this thread.
Interesting speculation, nonetheless. I think you point is valid, that Binghamton fans might be more accepting of an ECHL team if it is "sold" as a more stable alternative, and using a local name instead of changing the team name every time the AHL franchise changes. Maybe fans that are tired of being on the AHL affiliation spinning wheel would welcome a local team name, as well as renewed rivalries with Worcester, Adirondack, Maine, (maybe Manchester), and some new opponents. And the travel would be pretty equivalent, even though they would lose Utica, Rochester, WBS, Hershey and Syracuse, a division of Adirondack, T-R, Worcester, Maine, Reading, and Newfoundland (who pays the visiting teams costs) isn't a huge change.

IF the Devils are pulling out of Bingo, they can either wait until the musical chairs game stops and see who they get, or if they are left without a seat at the table (to mix metaphors a bit) they can get an ECHL expansion team. I doubt the AHL would be terribly upset to lose a small market team in a tiny old building if the Devils or Canucks (or someone else) comes up with a larger market with a newer building - or just locates the AHL team in the NHL city.
 

Atlantian

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the AHL has been informed that the Devils will be leaving Binghamton or Newark, in this case after 2021, but nothing further about where the franchise will be relocated to....

Utica, for those unaware, is in the option year of a 3 series set of 2 year renewals but the choice has to be exercised by the Canucks, not the Comets or Esche specifically...
Here’s an article about it. Utica seems like the place for the Devils to move, but as hutch said, the Comets are there and we’ve heard nothing from Vancouver. Would they possibly switch markets? Either way, I don’t see Binghamton without a team for 21-22 be it ECHL or AHL.
NJ Devils inform Binghamton ownership AHL team will be relocated
 

sabremike

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The local TV station discovered that a trademark request for "Utica Devils" was recently submitted. There's your answer on what happens next.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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Interesting speculation, nonetheless. I think you point is valid, that Binghamton fans might be more accepting of an ECHL team if it is "sold" as a more stable alternative, and using a local name instead of changing the team name every time the AHL franchise changes. Maybe fans that are tired of being on the AHL affiliation spinning wheel would welcome a local team name, as well as renewed rivalries with Worcester, Adirondack, Maine, (maybe Manchester), and some new opponents. And the travel would be pretty equivalent, even though they would lose Utica, Rochester, WBS, Hershey and Syracuse, a division of Adirondack, T-R, Worcester, Maine, Reading, and Newfoundland (who pays the visiting teams costs) isn't a huge change.

IF the Devils are pulling out of Bingo, they can either wait until the musical chairs game stops and see who they get, or if they are left without a seat at the table (to mix metaphors a bit) they can get an ECHL expansion team. I doubt the AHL would be terribly upset to lose a small market team in a tiny old building if the Devils or Canucks (or someone else) comes up with a larger market with a newer building - or just locates the AHL team in the NHL city.
it's not speculation....

it's whether Tom Mitchell wants to operate a franchise in Binghamton....but that's problematic in both leagues because of the timeline involved or you run the risk, royals, of the BC Icemen 2.0 after the relocation by the Rangers to Hartford, of which Mitchell left Binghamton entirely for three years until 2000 and there was no guarantee that Ottawa was coming there.

the ECHL may not be wanting to deal with a Binghamton franchise, expansion or otherwise, knowing there are issues there.... how long was Elmira a ticking time bomb waiting to go off on Nichols and their arena after what transpired there for years, as well....

Time for the Broome Dusters to sweep back into town.
which, JM, AS I explained, may not be feasible to the current generation of fans in and or out of Binghamton that know the history of that market.
 
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CHRDANHUTCH

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Here’s an article about it. Utica seems like the place for the Devils to move, but as hutch said, the Comets are there and we’ve heard nothing from Vancouver. Would they possibly switch markets? Either way, I don’t see Binghamton without a team for 21-22 be it ECHL or AHL.
NJ Devils inform Binghamton ownership AHL team will be relocated
I cannot see Binghamton landing a team, either existing, by transfer of territory, or expansion, Atlantian, that quickly based off how Newfoundland, and Worcester were created between petitioning the league to grant them a franchise get leases et all and everything associated with setting up a franchise in 4 to 6 months, even in a pandemic setting the way the Visions FCU Memorial Arena, AS it is now known as in Downtown Binghamton....

that arena from what I saw online was built and opened in 1973.... 4 years before Cross Arena was on the drawing board and built by Spectra here in Portland.

Manchester is gone, Brampton for all intents is gone..... and the arena operator that oversees that arena said they're a third party in whatever this dispute is between the Devils and the County.... it's the primary reason the County trustees were essentially abolished as arena operators in favor of ASM Direct or Spectra.

Portland should be a red flag warning to those who hold the belief that the County trustee management is the best option of managing an arena.... Wilkes Barre/Scranton came close to this same scenario with the Penguins and Luzerne County 6 or 7 years ago when Casey Plaza's lease came up for an extension....
 

Atlantian

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I cannot see Binghamton landing a team, either existing, by transfer of territory, or expansion, Atlantian, that quickly based off how Newfoundland, and Worcester were created between petitioning the league to grant them a franchise get leases et all and everything associated with setting up a franchise in 4 to 6 months, even in a pandemic setting the way the Visions FCU Memorial Arena, AS it is now known as in Downtown Binghamton....
That’s my fault. I meant to say 22-23 season as I was under the impression they would stick to their contract expiring after next season. No way to build an ECHL organization in time for the 21-22 season unless they were to start today. I can see them joining with Savannah in two years.
 

CHRDANHUTCH

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That’s my fault. I meant to say 22-23 season as I was under the impression they would stick to their contract expiring after next season. No way to build an ECHL organization in time for the 21-22 season unless they were to start today. I can see them joining with Savannah in two years.
oh sure but that's a challenge even now for existing teams who opted out.....like Portland and Atlanta, that's why I phrased it going back to Deacon's 1st team, the Growlers and how the Railers almost pulled that off in a year....

Worcester, caught a break really, with the relocation of the Pawsox setting up next to the DCU Center, that was just completed not long ago....since there was no baseball season in 2020 below the major league level....
 

wildcat48

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That’s my fault. I meant to say 22-23 season as I was under the impression they would stick to their contract expiring after next season. No way to build an ECHL organization in time for the 21-22 season unless they were to start today. I can see them joining with Savannah in two years.

If Binghamton wants an ECHL franchise they will get one. It would be a perfect place for the ECHL. They can build an independent brand based on the city that the fan base can support without the worried of affiliations changing every other year. It would fit geographically with Portland, Worcester, Adirondack and Reading. It would even fit with T-R.

I believe that as more AHL cities become former AHL cities it will open the door for the ECHL to expand into more stable markets. I even believe we will see Manchester back sooner than later.
 

JMCx4

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This "Utica Devils" chat is taking up space in at least three different forums. Isn't there an HFB rule against that? :huh:
 
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