ECHL to 30 Teams?

[CHRDANHUTCH]

but manchester isn't a rumor anymore there's interest but not ownership confirmed yet

we're not talking Manchester... Albany was somehow brought up

 

[hurricanesfan123]

ok someone asked about albany and you compared it to manchester

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

ok someone asked about albany and you compared it to manchester

because That was the decision made by the arena.....there has been no chatter no discussion ever about Albany ever joining the ECHL..... after the transfer of the Devils affiliation to Binghamton..... otherwise, Binghamton has no hockey once Ottawa made their decision to move from Binghamton to Belleville, WHICH has nothing to do with the ECHL...

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

i am fairly sure the nahl wouldn't replace the echl or even compete with it really..... The danbury jr hat tricks in the nahl dont compete with the fhl team.

To be fair:

-There are a bunch of NAHL markets that could be decent ECHL markets.

-NAHL Danbury hasn’t played a game yet and they’re certainly selling it like they’re going to be competing with the FPHL team for fans, so I wouldn’t be entirely sure about that.

 

[Ratitude]

As an Albanian I can definitely add some insight. There is no conventional wisdom when it comes to the Capital Region sports landscape. Its filled with minor league disasters, failures, and success stories. It's crazy Albany can pretty much rival any American city when it comes to the Arena Football League lol, but that league is gone.

Another success story is the NY-Penn League's Tri-City Valleycats short season class A ball.

Hockey is complicated because teams from Glens Fall to Troy to Albany have all come and gone. Some epic disasters but teams like the Adirondack Red Wings and Albany River Rats have coexisted and have shared success from 1980s through much of the 1990s.

The Devils really ruined the market, but the market was also changed from the days of the Rats. UAlbany became a D1 basketball program and Union College's DI hockey program has really risen to be able to compete at the national level.

Adirondack has really embraced its ECHL team. The ownership group is local and they also operate the arena so its a successful model. Hockey fans from the immediate Albany area have shed no tears when the Devils pulled their AHL club, I know I certainly didn't. I miss seeing Rochester, Hartford, and games against Utica which was a good developing rivalry.

I think many local fans have respect for what they have built in Glens Falls. Its still affiliated hockey, some really skilled offensive players and solid goaltending. Defensively the ECHL is very weak, and it is an aggravating run and gun style product but nevertheless its still entertaining hockey. I think for hockey to return to Albany it would have to be backed by the Rangers organization or even some affiliations with the Isles or even surprisingly the Bruins as Albany is close to Massachusetts and Southern VT.

Albany is very close to Glens Falls and if two teams couldn't successfully coexist like the Wings & Rats once did I can't see Albany County trying to hurt what Glens Falls has. I think a Rangers affiliate may change that but have my reservations. Albany recently has put in a bid to host NLL neutral site games so what lies ahead is anyone's guess. Until then Albany area hockey fans have solid options nearby. ECHL 50 miles up I-87, or two DI hockey teams with 20 minutes of one another.

 

[hurricanesfan123]

To be fair:

-There are a bunch of NAHL markets that could be decent ECHL markets.

-NAHL Danbury hasn’t played a game yet and they’re certainly selling it like they’re going to be competing with the FPHL team for fans, so I wouldn’t be entirely sure about that.

So really it would be one or the other

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

So really it would be one or the other

i believe Ratitude is correct..... although it likely won't be the Rangers affiliation as he has stated.....the only way it might change is Hartford, and that's unlikely the way MSG waltzed in there and after the fallout of losing Worcester, Portland, and then Manchester collapsing the way it did 3 years ago..... Spectra operates both arenas in Portland and Hartford.... they also operate the Pack's business side of operations for MSG, While they operate the entire show in Portland.... just as they intended in 1977... that model has returned once the sponsorship of the arena was sold.... the trustee board that oversaw the leasing of the arena to private ownership...later was abolished and Spectra regained sole rights to the tenant team as well as the arena have been contentious over the years

simply, it was the business decision made in a contract outlined in 2006.... IT just wasn't one thing that forced the AHL out of its three most successful markets, leaving Bridgeport, Hartford, Springfield, and Providence to continue on.... had that not started in 2014/15, it was stated it likely would've by last season or the beginning of this one....

 

[Ratitude]

I think both the AHL and ECHL will have some changes post pandemic. Some markets might succumb to the economics and other markets could return. How the post pandemic minor league landscape ends up it will no doubt affect more then hockey. I am even more concerned with the pandemic should this lawful nonsensical civil unrest continue. Albany on Saturday night had to utilize three different police agencies to keep the arena from being attacked....This no purpose rioting I hope doesn't escalate and prolong the epidemic. One where right here in Albany we were moving in the right direction. We already lost our beloved Walter Robb who owned the River Rats, and William Gladstone who owned the Tri-City Valleycats. Sadly those two men lost to the virus.

 

[hurricanesfan123]

I think both the AHL and ECHL will have some changes post pandemic. Some markets might succumb to the economics and other markets could return. How the post pandemic minor league landscape ends up it will no doubt affect more then hockey. I am even more concerned with the pandemic should this lawful nonsensical civil unrest continue. Albany on Saturday night had to utilize three different police agencies to keep the arena from being attacked....This no purpose rioting I hope doesn't escalate and prolong the epidemic. One where right here in Albany we were moving in the right direction. We already lost our beloved Walter Robb who owned the River Rats, and William Gladstone who owned the Tri-City Valleycats. Sadly those two men lost to the virus.

its sad times indeed

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I think both the AHL and ECHL will have some changes post pandemic. Some markets might succumb to the economics and other markets could return. How the post pandemic minor league landscape ends up it will no doubt affect more then hockey. I am even more concerned with the pandemic should this lawful nonsensical civil unrest continue. Albany on Saturday night had to utilize three different police agencies to keep the arena from being attacked....This no purpose rioting I hope doesn't escalate and prolong the epidemic. One where right here in Albany we were moving in the right direction. We already lost our beloved Walter Robb who owned the River Rats, and William Gladstone who owned the Tri-City Valleycats. Sadly those two men lost to the virus.

I still remember Al Lawrence as well as being part of that group that helped facilitate the transfer of the CD Islanders into THE Rats AND the switch from RPI to the then Knickerbocker now T-U Center

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

So really it would be one or the other

Not at all. They're doing both. They believe the market can support both if they're both properly marketed for the long-term. It looks like they did their feasibility research and have the money to back it up.

 

[210]

not with the Devils affiliate.... Darryl.... you'll lose Adirondack most likely.... again..... not likely is Times Union Center open to entertain that possibility... otherwise wouldn't Albany have replaced the Thunder in that scenario.... they're drawing from both markets without the hassle

If Glens Falls and Albany can co-exist in the AHL, they can do it in the ECHL. The affiliations don't matter. I do agree the Times Union Center is unlikely to be interested in an ECHL team anyway.

 

[210]

not from the area i didn't know if there would be a territory agrument

I'm positive the parties would work it out.

 

[Ratitude]

I still remember Al Lawrence as well as being part of that group that helped facilitate the transfer of the CD Islanders into THE Rats AND the switch from RPI to the then Knickerbocker now T-U Center

The good old RPI's Houston Field House, still a very fun place to catch a game. The lightning has been upgraded, scoreboard, glass but has that old hanger style arena feel. Saw alot of rock concerts there in the 80s lol. Ratt, Winger, Cinderella, Great White, Poison, ohhh no I am aging myself!

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

If Glens Falls and Albany can co-exist in the AHL, they can do it in the ECHL. The affiliations don't matter. I do agree the Times Union Center is unlikely to be interested in an ECHL team anyway.

They're in need in some kind of tenant. As I said, they just lost their arena football team (I think the Arena Football League, which I had such high hopes for at one point, never truly recovered from their first bankruptcy which occurred after the recession of that era; I think that if there had been no recession then, the AFL would not only still exist, but it would be thriving). TUC will take anything at this point. The loss of AFL hurts even more considering the Empire were the league's last champions.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

They're in need in some kind of tenant. As I said, they just lost their arena football team (I think the Arena Football League, which I had such high hopes for at one point, never truly recovered from their first bankruptcy which occurred after the recession of that era; I think that if there had been no recession then, the AFL would not only still exist, but it would be thriving). TUC will take anything at this point. The loss of AFL hurts even more considering the Empire were the league's last champions.

Entirely wrong. Times Union Center has plenty going on that they don't need a hockey tenant. They have a full-time and very successful tenant in Siena basketball. They host every single major high school championship tournament for all three athletic seasons. They have always had a packed schedule as a concert venue as well. They regularly host weekend-long conventions and exhibitions. They actually said at one point when a group was looking at the feasibility of an ECHL team that they don't need pro hockey, and it would be unprofitable for them to have one as not only did they not make money off the events but booking those events took away from their other, very profitable events. They won't "take anything at this point." Much like the Sprint Center in Kansas City, there is more than enough to go around without needing a pro team.

 

[Ratitude]

They're in need in some kind of tenant. As I said, they just lost their arena football team (I think the Arena Football League, which I had such high hopes for at one point, never truly recovered from their first bankruptcy which occurred after the recession of that era; I think that if there had been no recession then, the AFL would not only still exist, but it would be thriving). TUC will take anything at this point. The loss of AFL hurts even more considering the Empire were the league's last champions.

I agree the arena would like a tenant to compliment the Siena College DI basketball program but the arena certainly isn't desperate to take anything they can get. The county who owns the building and the arena management don't want to make the mistake of putting just any team in the building. The arena and county could have easily considered of trying to establish an Albany Empire team in the Indoor Football League or National Arena League but they were smart not to do so out of desperation.

Albany's location, arena location, and even though its too big for an area this size the arena attracts very good concerts, NCAA regionals, and high school tournaments. As someone who lives 10 minutes from the arena and would love having hockey back I would hate to see the arena rush to just put anything in the building. Also I do have a soft spot for Adirondack hockey. I attend ECHL games up there several times per season and love what they built up there.

The A-Devils were a crappy run organization, they had a true disconnect with us locals lol. When the A-Devils arrived they actually turned down former River Rats owner Walter Robb's offer to the team to use the River Rats name and logo. Second the first few years they actually played 4 home games each season in Atlantic City of all places, not even in Newark of all places. Lastly, the Devils organization made sure every Saturday home games were all played at 5pm, not the league wide usual of 7pm. Many fans expressed their displeasure, the complaints were met with deaf ears. That means if you wanted to have dinner before the game you basically had to eat around 3pm to have enough time to get in the building for 5pm puck drops. Not one or two games per season but EVERY Saturday home games...Newark was all about development, definitely didn't care whether the fans or those looking for fun time out in Albany were happy or not lol.

 

[sabremike]

Not at all. They're doing both. They believe the market can support both if they're both properly marketed for the long-term. It looks like they did their feasibility research and have the money to back it up.

Living here I am still of the opinion that the NAHL team is going to fail pretty bad. People here will only support a pro team (and yes, I know that the FPHL is really semi-pro but that's still good enough).

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Living here I am still of the opinion that the NAHL team is going to fail pretty bad. People here will only support a pro team (and yes, I know that the FPHL is really semi-pro but that's still good enough).

I think they might do a "Buy STH for the FPHL and get NAHL STH at a steep discount." There are plenty of markets that do some sort of version of that. Utica College and Utica Comets have successfully done that for years. Huntsville Havoc and UAH did that at one point in time but I'm fairly certain they discontinued it. They seem to be fairly confident it can be done and seem to be in it for the long haul. While I am not inclined at all to believe a FPHL marketing plan, they seem to be all in with a decent chunk of change behind the issue.

 

[Royalsflagrunner77]

Here is a good question do you guys think the ECHL will have problems keeping some of the teams they already have . Do to lack of income from the pandemic do you guys see teams folding doto this or do you think most teams will be ok ?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Here is a good question do you guys think the ECHL will have problems keeping some of the teams they already have . Do to lack of income from the pandemic do you guys see teams folding doto this or do you think most teams will be ok ?

it's doubtful you'll see this league or the AHL, for that matter, struggle to survive..... they'll maintain either what they have or being pragmatic in where they go... they wouldn't have done this force majeure provision.... in other words the off season just got moved up.....other than that between surveys by the current teams, the protected list being released now.... unless something major changes between now and opening weekend of 2021-22 season.... wouldn't we hear of existing teams on the brink of suspending or ceasing operations, instead of where T-R is still in active discussions to award them a franchise as an example.... if this were a given "typical" season, most seem to have handled this pandemic as it came.....just as the League made that call to not go back to a ppotential restart date, and as Andrews said focus on the upcoming 2021-2022 season...

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Could New Hampshire Be A Future Home For A Bruins Affiliate?
Here is a good article about the potential of The bruins affiliating with Manchester. A lot of people don't seem to realize that the bruins affiliating with a team in New England will not involve the gladiator's moving.

 

[hurricanesfan123]

Could New Hampshire Be A Future Home For A Bruins Affiliate?
Here is a good article about the potential of The bruins affiliating with Manchester. A lot of people don't seem to realize that the bruins affiliating with a team in New England will not involve the gladiator's moving.

i was asking earlier about manchester or trois riveries and how they would have to have a plan by this summer or fall to enter for the 2021-22 season but I am pretty sure that Newfoundland didnt enter until spring. So isn't it possible manchester especially since it sounds like they dont have a plan yet or trois riveries if they cant get their act together might not by ready until spring 2021 and have a team ready for that October
With ECHL hockey agreement for St. John's all but done, now the real work starts | The Telegram

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

i was asking earlier about manchester or trois riveries and how they would have to have a plan by this summer or fall to enter for the 2021-22 season but I am pretty sure that Newfoundland didnt enter until spring. So isn't it possible manchester especially since it sounds like they dont have a plan yet or trois riveries if they cant get their act together might not by ready until spring 2021 and have a team ready for that October
With ECHL hockey agreement for St. John's all but done, now the real work starts | The Telegram

Newfoundland started as early as 2016, hurricanesfan.... after Montreal left St. John's for Laval, the intended destination after Quebec crashed in 2002.... it was moved to Hamilton. Mac Donald didn't get approval until 2018

then the side battle between the Growlers, the Edge and SJSE, during the Kelly Cup run over the lease....

Conditional approval by Crelin and the ECHL BOG wasn't granted until January of 2018, to start play in 2018/2019, that's when Deacon/MacDonald struck the deal with bringing back MLSE (THE Leafs, and the rechristened Marlies), WHO had played in that arena until Edmonton lost the lease at RICOH (now Coca-Cola ) Coliseum (The Marlies were the franchise up to 2005 in Newfoundland).

the Growlers began that October of 2018.... Newfoundland is the 1st ECHL Team since 1989/1990(Greensboro) to win a championship in their inaugural season & is the 1st Canadian entry in the ECHL to hold that distinction

Newfoundland Growlers-Wikipedia

 

[royals119]

i was asking earlier about manchester or trois riveries and how they would have to have a plan by this summer or fall to enter for the 2021-22 season but I am pretty sure that Newfoundland didnt enter until spring. So isn't it possible manchester especially since it sounds like they dont have a plan yet or trois riveries if they cant get their act together might not by ready until spring 2021 and have a team ready for that October
With ECHL hockey agreement for St. John's all but done, now the real work starts | The Telegram

Typical time to approve a new or relocated franchise is at the league meeting that occurs at the All-Star game. Sometimes that meeting has to be continued via conference call a week or two later because of some delay with a lease or other details. Sometimes those teams start play in October of that year, and sometimes they wait for the following season. Depends on how much they have in place already, number of season ticket commitments, staffing, sponsors, arena availability, etc etc. But in every case the owners had been working on stuff prior the spring. Maybe it wasn't public, but you can't just show up in March and get a team for October. You can get final approval in March (not typical, but possibly that late) and start play in October, but that process would have had to begin much earlier.

Specifically for Trios-Rivers, they have a good head start on the process, but no lease. It could happen for 2021-2022, but we won't know for a while yet. For Manchester, it is unlikely at this point, but not impossible. If the rumored owner is someone who is already vetted by the league and has been quietly putting things in place, and is close to a lease agreement, it is still possible to get a team for 2021, but that is a lot of ifs.