Post-Game Talk: ECF GAME 1 - The storm blew out to sea - BRUINS 5 Whalercanes 2 F - B's lead series 1-0

Dennis Bonvie

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Dec 29, 2007
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It would be great if the refs were held accountable after games and made to answer questions from the media. I think we would then be able to hear the logic (however faulty) and see the defense mechanisms from officials in why they are so "poor" at their jobs. They are not involved in calling a fair game. What they do in the playoffs is pure and simple game management. Yes, they to some degree are incompetent, however they are not so incompetent that they are failing to see clear penalty after clear penalty on one team and ignoring them, then calling the first soft penalty they can on the other team. That's not incompetence at all, that's game management. Some degree of transparency and accountability would be nice. I know it won't happen because the league loves its "parity," and knows it's bad for business to have too many blowouts and dominant teams. The refs are a useful tool. The cool thing, though, is it all works. The fans for the most part are entertained and keep coming back for more, the league makes money, the players are well compensated, and most people complain a little but move on past the shenanigans. The circus lives to see another year and remains the greatest show on earth. Perhaps there's nothing wrong with any of that. Ignorance is bliss.

I think you are way off base.

Refs became "poor at their job" as soon as instant replay was created. No one can call an NHL game without missing numerous infractions. Calls are much easier to make after seeing a replay. Yet if their is a reviewable call and you can access both broadcasts of the game (Center Ice), frequently there is a completely different opinion of the same play. Its just a terribly difficult game to officiate.
 
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JOKER 192

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If it bothers you so much, mute the damn thing.
Save yourself from insanity.

That's what ruins for me, I do watch most of it muted, then I get annoyed and put the sound on which is even more annoying. I don't get how no matter who the Bruins are playing these can't even try to hide the fact that they are rooting for the other team. Yes, the Bruins beat the leafs ,again, suck it up butter cup.
 
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Lady Rhian

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Or the slewfoot on Krug.
Crosscheck on Chara.
HighsticK in the face on Pasta
Crosscheck on Marchand on a line change
Obviously running Tuukka

That "letting them play" phrase is bs.
They are allowed to play dirty.
The phrase should be changed to "they, the refs, are not doing their job"
Then just leave. Get off the ice.

Then a puck is flipped over the glass and there's a 2 minute penalty.
Cue eye roll.

Well that's a blatant call and a game changer. :laugh:
 

Spooner st

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That's what ruins for me, I do watch most of it muted, then I get annoyed and put the sound on which is even more annoying. I don't get how no matter who the Bruins are playing these can't even try to hide the fact that they are rooting for the other team. Yes, the Bruins beat the leafs ,again, suck it up butter cup.
I don't pay much attention to their opinion.
I kind of tune them out and concentrate on the plays.
For us in Canada it's always the same anti Bruins BS.
Only on rare occasions they have no choice but to acknowledge how great the players or team is doing.
 
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JOKER 192

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I don't pay much attention to their opinion.
I kind of tune them out and concentrate on the plays.
For us in Canada it's always the same anti Bruins BS.
Only on rare occasions they have no choice but to acknowledge how great the players or team is doing.

I just don't get why we can't have Jack as an option. Sure he's a homer but isn't every teams play-by -play guy a homer. It's way better than listening to two clowns who are homers to someone else's team.
 
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Maine Fan

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I think officiating the NHL is by far the hardest. It’s the only league where players are allowed to carry weapons. It has by far the fastest pace. It’s the only sport where the officials are in the “field” of play except for the 2nd base ump and 2 officials in the NFL (and they moved one).

The biggest thing though is that every penalty has such a major impact on the game. You’re basically giving a team a 20-25% of scoring. And realistically you could call a penalty on every play, especially in the playoffs.

I don’t pretend to have a solution, but I do think taking a long hard look at it is something they are going to have to do at some point.

I agree with you. Hockey is fast but there are so many missed calls or bad calls. Remember the one where the puck hit the net, three refs and no one saw it, just bad. In baseball the strike zone moves by ref. In football calls cost teams playoff wins. It goes on and on. Other than using replay that will change the games because it breaks the momentum and makes the games longer. Is more refs the answer in all sports? I have friends that gave up watching the NFL because of the bad calls or lack of calls.

Lets hope it gets better but I doubt it.
 

missingchicklet

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I think you are way off base.

Refs became "poor at their job" as soon as instant replay was created. No one can call an NHL game without missing numerous infractions. Calls are much easier to make after seeing a replay. Yet if their is a reviewable call and you can access both broadcasts of the game (Center Ice), frequently there is a completely different opinion of the same play. Its just a terribly difficult game to officiate.
I disagree about instant replay. Instant replay has been around for a long time. In the not so distant past I felt that reffing in the NHL was easily the best of the 4 major sports. It was actually quite excellent, and replay showed that to be true. Refs missed calls, of course, since it's not an easy game to ref, but on the whole they did an outstanding job the vast majority of the time. The problem now is that the refs willfully "miss" calls when they feel the situation warrants. Refs still miss calls like they always have, but now they also "miss" multiple consecutive calls they are staring straight at, then turnaround and don't "miss" calls when the situation warrants. People can call it what they want, but it didn't used to be this prevalent whatsoever. I doubt there is any conspiracy against any particular team. In fact that would make no sense from a business standpoint. However, there is something that goes on in terms of managing games.
 

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If it bothers you so much, mute the damn thing.
Save yourself from insanity.

I have muted every game since NBC/NBCSN took over. I am perfectly capable of following a game without broadcasters especially when said broadcasters have little to nothing good to say about the Bruins. I'd kill to have Jack & Brick calling the games. Jack at least strives to be fair to the other team, hell sometimes he even goes overboard praising them.
 

Spooner st

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Jan 14, 2007
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I just don't get why we can't have Jack as an option. Sure he's a homer but isn't every teams play-by -play guy a homer. It's way better than listening to two clowns who are homers to someone else's team.
In these situations like playoffs where the play by play and color guy's team are eliminated, like CBC ,and Sportsnet.
They should be neutral to the 2 other fan base.

But we know they cater to the Leafs/Habs fan base .
 
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Dennis Bonvie

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I disagree about instant replay. Instant replay has been around for a long time. In the not so distant past I felt that reffing in the NHL was easily the best of the 4 major sports. It was actually quite excellent, and replay showed that to be true. Refs missed calls, of course, since it's not an easy game to ref, but on the whole they did an outstanding job the vast majority of the time. The problem now is that the refs willfully "miss" calls when they feel the situation warrants. Refs still miss calls like they always have, but now they also "miss" multiple consecutive calls they are staring straight at, then turnaround and don't "miss" calls when the situation warrants. People can call it what they want, but it didn't used to be this prevalent whatsoever. I doubt there is any conspiracy against any particular team. In fact that would make no sense from a business standpoint. However, there is something that goes on in terms of managing games.

I really don't recall that. When are you talking about?
 

Dennis Bonvie

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I have muted every game since NBC/NBCSN took over. I am perfectly capable of following a game without broadcasters especially when said broadcasters have little to nothing good to say about the Bruins. I'd kill to have Jack & Brick calling the games. Jack at least strives to be fair to the other team, hell sometimes he even goes overboard praising them.

You're not being serious, are you?
 

member 96824

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I think you are way off base.

Refs became "poor at their job" as soon as instant replay was created. No one can call an NHL game without missing numerous infractions. Calls are much easier to make after seeing a replay. Yet if their is a reviewable call and you can access both broadcasts of the game (Center Ice), frequently there is a completely different opinion of the same play. Its just a terribly difficult game to officiate.

I think both of you are wrong.

While the game has sped up significantly in the last few years, the referees remain the same. For example, Wes McCauley and David Backes had the same rookie year. While we no longer depend on this David Backes’ of the world, we hold even higher expectations of the Wes McCauley’s. IMO it’s tough, but I believe the reality is the existing roster of officials can’t keep up with the new game.

Replay helps, but it won’t solve the root cause.
 

Dueling Banjos

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That's what ruins for me, I do watch most of it muted, then I get annoyed and put the sound on which is even more annoying. I don't get how no matter who the Bruins are playing these can't even try to hide the fact that they are rooting for the other team. Yes, the Bruins beat the leafs ,again, suck it up butter cup.

Weird indeed, they should be used to loserness by now.
 
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Dennis Bonvie

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Dec 29, 2007
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I think both of you are wrong.

While the game has sped up significantly in the last few years, the referees remain the same. For example, Wes McCauley and David Backes had the same rookie year. While we no longer depend on this David Backes’ of the world, we hold even higher expectations of the Wes McCauley’s. IMO it’s tough, but I believe the reality is the existing roster of officials can’t keep up with the new game.

Replay helps, but it won’t solve the root cause.

Wes McCauley is 47 years old.

Many referees worked way past that, so they were never up to the speed of the game. I'd imagine today's officials are in much better shape than ever before.
 

s3antana5757

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Feb 15, 2014
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I agree with you. Hockey is fast but there are so many missed calls or bad calls. Remember the one where the puck hit the net, three refs and no one saw it, just bad. In baseball the strike zone moves by ref. In football calls cost teams playoff wins. It goes on and on. Other than using replay that will change the games because it breaks the momentum and makes the games longer. Is more refs the answer in all sports? I have friends that gave up watching the NFL because of the bad calls or lack of calls.

Lets hope it gets better but I doubt it.

More officials is definitely not the answer. I coach in college and one coach once said “it’s just one more s***** official to make s***** calls”.
 
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Wes McCauley is 47 years old.

Many referees worked way past that, so they were never up to the speed of the game. I'd imagine today's officials are in much better shape than ever before.

I would argue the game has never seen such an uptick in speed in such a short period of time...and coincidences with what in my eyes is the biggest gap in officiating I’ve seen.

Of course, correlation doesn’t equal causation but I struggle to believe all of these officials just all of a sudden forgot how to call a consistent game
 

missingchicklet

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Jan 24, 2010
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I really don't recall that. When are you talking about?
I'm talking about the period roughly into the early 2000s. Something happened around that time where NHL reffing got worse, and has progressively deteriorated.

It's backed by evidence. Kerry Fraser has talked some about poor reffing practices over the past decade. Even academia has done research. The UMass-Amherst study that charted 2.6 million shifts over three seasons showed that French-Canadian refs penalize English Canadian players at a significantly higher rate than English Canadian refs. That same study also showed that when two French-Canadian refs are on the ice at the same time English players get called for penalties far more than French players. It's unreal how awful and biased refs are in just that area alone, which isn't even addressing what I'm most concerned with. Research of seasons 2009-2014 showed that refs tend to even out calls as an intentional practice, and perhaps even worse make calls based on score, as teams with the lead get PPs at a rate much lower than the team that is trailing. And of course there is the study done by FiveThirtyEight in which it was shown that over a decade's worth of OT games studied that refs go the extra mile to manage PPs in OT, not calling the penalties that actually occur, but calling penalties based on situation. It's really no big secret that NHL reffing has gotten extremely bad. The eye test certainly can see how rotten it has become on the whole over the past 5 decades, but there is actual research showing how pathetic it has become, and of course plenty of anecdotal evidence from both players and former refs. If the situation, as some suggest, is that the game is just too fast and complex to accurately call, then there would surely be more randomness to what is taking place in terms of penalty calls. Unfortunately research and reality suggest otherwise.
 

Dueling Banjos

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Oct 29, 2014
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I would argue the game has never seen such an uptick in speed in such a short period of time...and coincidences with what in my eyes is the biggest gap in officiating I’ve seen.

Of course, correlation doesn’t equal causation but I struggle to believe all of these officials just all of a sudden forgot how to call a consistent game

Speed of the game is one thing.

Another thing is, we are still experiencing some sort of transition between remains of old NHL and this new age league. Remember first few or 10 games of the season, every stick love tap to the gloves was penalty all of a sudden, everyone was confused and was getting frustrated about it but that watered down as the season went on.

We have excellent power play. Ref makes 'soft call', it happens, since forever to any team; we score....another penalty, we score again, boom - refs are helping us - no, our power play is.

The everpresent media attention, social media gifs, clips, neverending debates around these parts exaggerate that.

'Gifted goals'.
 
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Dueling Banjos

Registered User
Oct 29, 2014
7,103
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I'm talking about the period roughly into the early 2000s. Something happened around that time where NHL reffing got worse, and has progressively deteriorated.

It's backed by evidence. Kerry Fraser has talked some about poor reffing practices over the past decade. Even academia has done research. The UMass-Amherst study that charted 2.6 million shifts over three seasons showed that French-Canadian refs penalize English Canadian players at a significantly higher rate than English Canadian refs. That same study also showed that when two French-Canadian refs are on the ice at the same time English players get called for penalties far more than French players. It's unreal how awful and biased refs are in just that area alone, which isn't even addressing what I'm most concerned with. Research of seasons 2009-2014 showed that refs tend to even out calls as an intentional practice, and perhaps even worse make calls based on score, as teams with the lead get PPs at a rate much lower than the team that is trailing. And of course there is the study done by FiveThirtyEight in which it was shown that over a decade's worth of OT games studied that refs go the extra mile to manage PPs in OT, not calling the penalties that actually occur, but calling penalties based on situation. It's really no big secret that NHL reffing has gotten extremely bad. The eye test certainly can see how rotten it has become on the whole over the past 5 decades, but there is actual research showing how pathetic it has become, and of course plenty of anecdotal evidence from both players and former refs. If the situation, as some suggest, is that the game is just too fast and complex to accurately call, then there would surely be more randomness to what is taking place in terms of penalty calls. Unfortunately research and reality suggest otherwise.

Very interesting, thanks for posting that.
 
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PatriceBergeronFan

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Anyone who thinks that NBC is anti Bruins have been listening to Jack to much.

They call it both ways neutral. People are to used to home team broadcasts

They are definitely selling the Carolina story much more.

They aren't calling against the Bruins per say but clearly they are trying to hype up Carolina should they reach the Final.
 
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Lady Rhian

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I have muted every game since NBC/NBCSN took over. I am perfectly capable of following a game without broadcasters especially when said broadcasters have little to nothing good to say about the Bruins. I'd kill to have Jack & Brick calling the games. Jack at least strives to be fair to the other team, hell sometimes he even goes overboard praising them.
Myself as well. I do have it on Close Captioned if something important happens, but I put on my Spotify now and listen to music while the game is playing. Such a shame, too.
 
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