Early Impressions: Marcus Pettersson

Discussion in 'Pittsburgh Penguins' started by pixiesfanyo, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. Solzhenitsyn

    Solzhenitsyn Registered User

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    That’s why I want JJ gone and Pettersson to play with an actually decent player. Johnson has been solid insofar as he’s not getting lit up every night now. That’s a low ass standard. Pens might be fine with him after all, but that will be mostly in thanks to MP.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  2. Ryder71

    Ryder71 Registered User

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    Good offensive instincts, solid positioning, high hockey IQ, thus far he's been a great pick up.
     
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  3. Soggy Biscuit

    Soggy Biscuit Jake The $nake

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    As critical as I've been of the circumstances of Pettersson coming here, I've been impressed by his play. He's come as advertised as a Dumoulin-type defenseman.

    I agree with most people that it'd be nice to see how he performs with someone other than JJ. I think he'd make a natural partner for Schultz when he comes back.
     
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  4. Empoleon8771

    Empoleon8771 It's Sprong's Fault

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    But again, why though? Why fix something that isn't broken? This isn't even about what opinion you have on Johnson, it's why break up a D pair that is working extremely well right now? It's just dumb, it's like saying that they should break up the Guentzel-Crosby-Rust line just to see if Guentzel can spark Malkin.
     
  5. CrosbyMalkin

    CrosbyMalkin Registered User

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    I just don’t see this logic. Like I just posted in my last post, how could you expect anything better from Pettersson? Pettersson has looked good his whole time with the Pens and he has 6 points and a +10 in his last 5 games. The guy is not Bobby Orr so I don’t think he is being held back by playing with Johnson. In fact Johnson is the one playing the higher minutes every night.

    We have a pairing that has clicked and why mess with what is working? Not just working but excelling far past anyone’s reasonable expectations of either Johnson or Pettersson. Johnson since the pairing has been put together has simplified his game to enable Pettersson to play his two way game. Johnson while playing top 3-4 minutes every night has been a +10 in his 19 games with Pettersson. Pettersson has been +13 while providing some nice offensive production.

    The pairing has just had a 5 games stretch which has Pettersson with 6 points and +10 in 5 games and people on these boards want to split them up? Scary logic. Can we at least wait until we see some bad games in a row with them first? This is starting to get a little cringeworthy.
     
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  6. Empoleon8771

    Empoleon8771 It's Sprong's Fault

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    It's because people decided Johnson sucked before he even played a game here, and his poor start to his Penguins career further reinforced that. It doesn't matter that he looks to have really settled in nicely as a #4/5 since Pettersson came in, he still sucks because people have decided he sucks already.

    I want to see an actual justification for splitting up the pair that isn't some BS about how Johnson is a terrible player. You know that they won't be able to provide it, the entire argument is that "Johnson=bad".
     
  7. shoplifter

    shoplifter Registered User

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    People are loud and annoying but that doesn't make them right. The only one who really deserves to be **** upon this season is Brassard.... aaaand Sheahan (usually I just rip big bust brass, but Sheahan has be really rough-persistently). The rest is just ups and downs. Slumps and streaks. Wouldn't be much to talk about though without the *****ing.
     
  8. Soggy Biscuit

    Soggy Biscuit Jake The $nake

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    Because Pettersson-JJ is mostly notable for turning JJ into something other than a tire fire - not being a great pairing on its own - and Pettersson-Schultz has the potential to be much better. That's quite a bit different from the standard Guentzel-Crosby-Rust is playing at right now.

    Either way, it's passable for now. When Schultz is ready, that's the pairing I'd want to see tried.
     
  9. Empoleon8771

    Empoleon8771 It's Sprong's Fault

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    So I had it right, the entire argument is "Johnson=bad", which is just comically false. It's "passable" for right now? If your standard for "passable" is what Pettersson-Johnson has been, your expectations are just stupidly out of wack.
     
  10. shoplifter

    shoplifter Registered User

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    I know its not the injury thread, but I honestly don't see Schultz coming back before late Feb/March... with possible post season readiness only. Then he may not be 100% conditioned for that pace. Did he have plates / screws put into his leg? That look brutal honestly and I could see him potentially out the rest of the season.
    EDIT: His legged snapped in half... literally... oh god damn that video of it in slo-mo.
     
  11. Solzhenitsyn

    Solzhenitsyn Registered User

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    No, it’s because JJ’s metrics are still bad and he’s draggimg Pettersson down well below 50% shot share despite MP. Everything points to that pairings success when it comes to preventing goals being partially luck driven.

    But yea we all just don’t like JJ just because.
     
  12. Soggy Biscuit

    Soggy Biscuit Jake The $nake

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    I guess we disagree.
     
  13. Soggy Biscuit

    Soggy Biscuit Jake The $nake

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    Could be. But he's already skating in practice.
     
  14. EightyOne

    EightyOne Registered User

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    Pet-JMFJ is not the WORST.
    Doesn't mean its the BEST.

    Johnson does suck. But i don't think he deserves to die, either.

    There's a middle ground here, right?
     
  15. Empoleon8771

    Empoleon8771 It's Sprong's Fault

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    I mean, we can disagree all we want, but that pair is at a +9 goal differential since getting put together. You can disagree all you want and only call it "passable", but the stats don't support your opinion at all.

    Saying "Johnson does suck" is not a middle ground.
     
  16. shoplifter

    shoplifter Registered User

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    Yeah that gives me hope. But leg snap like twig at a campfire is not good for professional athlete. He sat around for weeks / months recovering. The skating is positive, but still a long way from being in harms way.
     
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  17. pixiesfanyo

    pixiesfanyo Registered User

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    I mean, wishing for Petts - JJ to be broken up is silly.

    Maatta - Schultz is coming back as soon as Schultz is back and honestly, that was our best pairing last year so I don’t mind it.
     
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  18. Soggy Biscuit

    Soggy Biscuit Jake The $nake

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    Goal differential is not the only metric to gauge success, as Solzhenitsyn just pointed out.
     
  19. Empoleon8771

    Empoleon8771 It's Sprong's Fault

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    Read these stats then. The pair has been absolutely fantastic:

    Pettersson-Johnson as a pair:

    1. Has a positive CF%Rel
    2. Has a significantly positive HDCF%Rel
    3. Has a positive SCF%Rel
    4. Has a significantly positive GF%Rel
    5. Has a significantly positive HDCA/60Rel and SCA/60Rel (so just looking at defensive stats)

    But yeah, Johnson is totally dragging Pettersson down! The only thing that Solzhenitsyn posted that was correct was that the pair was at a sub-50% CF%, which is still better than the team average. The pair is excellent defensive based on the eye test and their SCA and HDCA numbers, their good goals against totals are not "based on luck".
     
  20. pixiesfanyo

    pixiesfanyo Registered User

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    I don’t know. It certainly seems like Petts is cleaning up a lot for JJ.

    I do agree with the idea of why fix what isn’t broken. Wait until the pairing messes up.
     
  21. CrosbyMalkin

    CrosbyMalkin Registered User

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    His poor start was not a surprise. Better defenseman than him took longer to adjust to the Pens system. Gonchar and Martin looked terrible for far longer than 25 games. That happens a lot for new defenseman coming to a team after signing a big contract. Johnson is now playing like his 2016-17 season when he was very effective. This was the Johnson I was hoping for when the signing was made. Keep it simple, clear the crease, sound defensively. Since this pairing has been together both players are doing great.

    19 games 4 points +10 with playing top 3-4 minutes nightly for Johnson and 19 games 7 points +13 playing 4-5 minutes nightly for Pettersson. Add to the fact last 5 games for Pettersson he has 6 points and +10 and people want to change it up? Logic on these boards is always laughable. Most likely same people that said we should get rid of Letang last summer because he sucks. How about all the posters that said we should tank for the draft when team started poorly both this season and in our past 3 Cup years. It gets annoying sometimes.
     
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  22. Empoleon8771

    Empoleon8771 It's Sprong's Fault

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    To an extent, but I think this is just the kind of player that JJ is. Johnson is going to make bad defensive plays because that's just the kind of player he is, I think the thing to judge him by is the frequency of those mistakes. They haven't happened that often from the 19 games that pair has been together. Sure, Pettersson has had to clean up for him, but it's on a low frequency when it comes to Johnson.

    My main argument was against the idea that the pair has only been "passable", though. That pair has been really damn good, to the point where calling it "passable" just makes you look to have absurdly unrealistic expectations. The pair just complements each other well, which is why I think it's working as well as it is. Johnson brings the physicality and size and Pettersson brings the puck moving and defensive awareness to that pair.

    You used the comparison of Ian Cole to describe Johnson's recent play, and I think that's a great comparison for him. I just don't get why people are hell-bent on continuing to say Johnson sucks and insisting on the team breaking up one of the first good bottom-4 pairs the Penguins have had this year.
     
  23. JimmyTwoTimes

    JimmyTwoTimes Registered User

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    Im sure theyll make some moves on defense in offseason. If they knew Riikola and (land a guy like ) Pettersson were gonna do this Im sure they wouldnt have signed JJ. Especially for that long
     
  24. Soggy Biscuit

    Soggy Biscuit Jake The $nake

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    It's passable because unlike other pairings, JJ-Pettersson has only been together during a stretch when both goalies have been playing out of their minds. I'm generally no fan of Ryan Wilson's takes, but he makes a good point here:

    But YMMV. I'm not particularly interested in having a drawn-out conversation about it while Schultz is on the shelf because it's doing the job for now. I'll happily revisit it when Schultz is available.
     
  25. Empoleon8771

    Empoleon8771 It's Sprong's Fault

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    No, that really isn't a good point by Wilson. He's looking at 1 advanced stats and drawing a conclusion based on that stat alone. To make it worse, he's not even looking at it relative to the rest of the team.

    Wilson is just another advanced stat stooge that hates Johnson, so I'm not surprised that he'd cling to anything he can find to say to take a shot at him. If your argument is "if they would be getting scored on more, they wouldn't be good", you don't have an actual argument against that pair. I posted the numbers that say that the pair has been absolutely excellent. You can call it "passable" all you want, but it's not based on anything whatsoever.
     

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