I don't think power play production is very important to the definition of the award.
Dylan Larkin looks good so far
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Heaton
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Me neither, but that doesn't really matter. If Datsyuk was a 40-50 point player he never would've won a Selke regardless of how good he was defensively. Same with Lidstrom, if he didn't put up tons of PP numbers he most likely wouldn't have won every Norris he won. The award isn't close to the definition anymore.
hes solid but he needs to get better at shot suppression, scoring chance suppression, high danger scoring chance suppression, and goals against to be an actual shut down center and selke candidate
A decent proportion of that stuff is a team thing, but a good center can tilt the ice
A decent proportion of that stuff is a team thing, but a good center can tilt the ice
Pavels Dog
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It's still rare for a Selke winner not to be near the top in at least some defensive metrics such as takeaways, faceoffs, penalty killing etc.
Henkka
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Those will come with time, development and with better linemates. Bergeron doesn't do those things alone, Marchand and Pastrnak (or Horton/Iginla earlier) were superior linemates.
So far he has taken huge jump in development, can't wait for more.
newfy
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Offense matters for the Norris by the definition but doesnt for the Selke so its not a good comparison
Heaton
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The definition doesn't matter, we both know that offense is factored into the Selke award.
Lazlo Hollyfeld
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Absolutely.
Kris Draper won it the year his point totals finally got high enough to be acceptable for the award. And he's probably the last player to win it who was even remotely in the spirit of its original inspiration in Bob Gainey.
It's really a two-way forward award and not defensive forward.
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newfy
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Offense matters in the sense that you have to be a solid offensive player. If one guy puts up 70 points/first line type numbers and another guy hits 85 or 90 I dont think it really matters though. Youre right that a 30 point player wont win it anymore like back in the Gainey days though
Sammy Pahlsson in '07. It being a two way award has been in vogue for quite awhile, though. At least since the early 90s when Gilmour, Francis, and Fedorov started winning it. I'm not sure anyone really foresaw guys being elite at both ends the way they were, and the way players are tasked with being now.
Lazlo Hollyfeld
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As far as I know Pahlsson never won the Selke. He was nominated in '07 but Brind'Amour won it. (Brind'Amour had 82 points that year to Pahlsson's 26).
I agree it's definitely been two-way forward for a while. I just think the spirit of the award originally was for it to go to someone like Glendening, not Larkin.
newfy
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That might be true but I think thats because hwen the award was made the Glendening types were the best defensively. Now with more of a focus on systems and 2 way play, it makes sense that some of the absolute best skilled guys could also be the best defensive guys as well. A good stick handler on offense makes ense to me that they would be better than a guy with stone hands at stealing the puck off someones stick as well
Pavels Dog
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People keep saying this but I don't see any Selke winner who I wouldn't put near the very top in terms of defensive play. In a defensive faceoff situation in Game 7 of the SCF, give me Bergeron/Datsyuk/Toews/Kopitar any day over the Pahlsson/Draper/Glendenings of the world. In today's game, players who can turn defense into offense are probably the most valuable players. The Selke recognizes that and I don't see why there should be an award that only recognizes defensive play, since most years I'd give that award to the actual Selke winner anyway.
newfy
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Not to mention that if a guy has the hockey IQ to be a high end offensive player, hes also likely the one that can read the play defensively as well. Datsyuk controlled the entire ice whenever he was on it. When he didnt have the puck he still controlled the flow of where it was going. The defense only types that dont score are generally reactionary players (like Glendening) and dont actual control the ice.
It makes sense that a lot of the most highly skilled players have the skills to be the best defensively too
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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Totally agree. I can’t think of anyone who was robbed or anything along those lines due to this.
19 for president
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Didn't turn out terrible for that Stevie Y guy in the end, but I get your point.
Lazlo Hollyfeld
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I don't disagree with your point. I'm just saying the Selke was originally conceived to honor more defensive-minded players who don't get a lot of attention because the rest of the trophies are basically for offensive guys.
And no mention of Zetterberg on that list? Datsyuk was an incredible two-way forward but in terms of shutting down the other teams star players he was second best on the team. I've said it many times but it's a travesty that Z doesn't have at least one Selke.
Lazlo Hollyfeld
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Yzerman actually made the playoffs most of his younger years, mostly because only 4 or 5 teams in the league didn't get in.
They used to call the Norris division the Snore-is because the teams were so bad. in 1983 for example the North Stars were the only team with a winning record in the Norris division but the Blues, Wings and Blackhawks all still got into the playoffs.
obey86
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In Larkin's last 82 games, he has 26 goals - 41 assists - 67 points.
The Zetterberg Era
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His lower point production is at the front end of this 82 game stretch too if I am remembering right. From February in he was fairly good last year even while the team wasn't good. So really his last 60 to 65 games he has to be near a point per game.
I guess I could look it up, but my point would be there was a noticeable jump. I think he actually gains on what he is with another off-season. I would like to see him trim his penalty minutes and get just a little stronger still. Slap the C on him in September and prepare to have huge debates about him being an underrated #1C around here on the mains for most of next season.
Given how good he is defensively, I don't think it is a stretch to say we have a top 20 center perhaps all of next season. That is a huge building block.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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I think Veleno can at least be a really good 3C, so all we have to do is find Larkin a good running mate and we could be fairly strong down the middle in the not so far future.
