Movies: Dune by Denis Villeneuve?
- Thread starter beowulf
- Start date
GlassesJacketShirt
Registered User
Aronofsky has the visual sense to make it work.........yet while I do not know how much of the end result is to be blamed on him, Noah was (personal opinion) one of those absolutely irredeemable movies that makes me think he should stay away from a grandiose concept like Dune.
Maybe I am not being fair due to that one example, but by god was it awful.
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 19,518
- 14,713
The Fountain was grandiose. It's a very divisive movie though. I thought it was great.
Blender
Registered User
- Dec 2, 2009
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I love The Fountain, but understand why a lot of people don't because of the themes explored.
Dune is definitely a movie that deserves a legit remake, because the first one is far from a classic.
Guess I better start reading the books, they've been on my list for awhile anyway
Dune is awesome.
I love Messiah. A lot of people don't though. It is super short so either way it is easy to get through.
Children is generally the second most liked after the original.
God Emperor is dense, and it is a real love/hate among people who read it. Most fans that love the series as a whole love God Emperor, but for many readers it is likely where they stop. It also happens to be a logical stopping point in the story, and if it had gone no further, most people would have been content. When I reread the series, I find myself stopping after God Emperor most of the time.
Heretics is the worst. It starts a new story for the most part and it is a little weirder and the characters are not as interesting as the original group imo.
Chapterhouse is a step up, not as good as 1-4, but still good. It doesn't finish the story though.
If you want to go on you have to read the continuations done by his son and Kevin J. Anderson. I didn't read those particular books because they also wrote some prequel books before they tackled the continuation and the prequels ranged from below average to horrid, so I chose to rather not have those two destroy the main story for me. I'd rather be left hanging and imagine a good ending exists than to have them put a crappy ending in its place in my mind.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Dune-Dune Messiah-Children of Dune forms a logical trilogy, while God Emperor stands on its own for the most part.
Dune Messiah destroys a lot of deeply held beliefs that people have about Paul and his role. The book is aptly named. What is the nature of the Messiah after his revolution is completed? Most art ends with the ascension and doesn't deal with the consequences.
Children of Dune is fascinating to an extent as it deals with Leto II and the failings of his father.
God Emperor is my favourite after the original but it takes a few readings. Understanding the nature of Leto II's existence asks a lot of the reader but I still think of it as a tremendous achievement in science-fiction.
The two later books (Heretics and Chapterhouse) raise interesting concepts but lack the overall consistency in quality of the first four books. The ideas are still interesting but the execution and characterization is off.
The prequels are terrible. What I love about Frank Herbert's style is the brevity. Every word he uses is important in some way. There is no real filler. When you have someone else writing in his world in a much more conventional fashion, it is jarring and upsetting. It smacks of fan fiction.
Despite everything, the original is still the best of all of the books. I can't count how many times I've read it and I discover something new every single time.
As an intellectual property, it's been cursed over the years. Fingers crossed that Villeneuve can pull it off. People thought Peter Jackson couldn't pull off LoTR and I think he did for the most part.
Dune Messiah destroys a lot of deeply held beliefs that people have about Paul and his role. The book is aptly named. What is the nature of the Messiah after his revolution is completed? Most art ends with the ascension and doesn't deal with the consequences.
Children of Dune is fascinating to an extent as it deals with Leto II and the failings of his father.
God Emperor is my favourite after the original but it takes a few readings. Understanding the nature of Leto II's existence asks a lot of the reader but I still think of it as a tremendous achievement in science-fiction.
The two later books (Heretics and Chapterhouse) raise interesting concepts but lack the overall consistency in quality of the first four books. The ideas are still interesting but the execution and characterization is off.
The prequels are terrible. What I love about Frank Herbert's style is the brevity. Every word he uses is important in some way. There is no real filler. When you have someone else writing in his world in a much more conventional fashion, it is jarring and upsetting. It smacks of fan fiction.
Despite everything, the original is still the best of all of the books. I can't count how many times I've read it and I discover something new every single time.
As an intellectual property, it's been cursed over the years. Fingers crossed that Villeneuve can pull it off. People thought Peter Jackson couldn't pull off LoTR and I think he did for the most part.
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Hockeyfrilla
Swe prospect fanatic
Casting news:
Timothée Chalmet as Paul Atreides
Rebecca Ferguson is in talks to play Lady Jessica
Aims to start production in early 2019
Timothée Chalmet as Paul Atreides
Rebecca Ferguson is in talks to play Lady Jessica
Aims to start production in early 2019
montreal
Go Habs Go
Frankie Blueberries
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- Jan 27, 2016
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Timothée Chalmet is a great choice for young Paul.
I don't know much about Rebecca Ferguson, but she seems like a good choice for Lady Jessica.
I am pretty optimistic for this remake; so far all signs point to it being a great adaptation.
I am curious to see if they will show the battles and wars, or leave them out like the book did and just skip forward to the aftermath. I'm hoping we see them.
I'm not a fan at all of casting a 22 year old to play a 15 year old. He's not even a recognizable actor, so why not just go with an unknown actor who's closer to the right age? The 1984 movie and the 2000 mini-series both deviated sharply from the novel by casting someone much too old and this seems to be repeating that decision, rather than differentiating itself.
It's not just a detail. It's an important part of the plot. At the start of Dune, Paul is very dependent on his parents, is too young to inherent his family's house and is forced to develop independence as the story moves along. A 22 year old is not going to be so dependent on his parents, is not too young to inherent the family house and should already be somewhat independent. Making him older ruins many of the major themes of the story and leaves less room for development in possible sequels.
Rebecca Ferguson would be a good choice for Lady Jessica, since she did a great job as a queen in The White Queen. The only problem is that she (at 34) is a little young to be the mother of a 22 year old. Unless they can make her seem older and him younger, their mother-son relationship may seem a little unbelievable.
It's not just a detail. It's an important part of the plot. At the start of Dune, Paul is very dependent on his parents, is too young to inherent his family's house and is forced to develop independence as the story moves along. A 22 year old is not going to be so dependent on his parents, is not too young to inherent the family house and should already be somewhat independent. Making him older ruins many of the major themes of the story and leaves less room for development in possible sequels.
Rebecca Ferguson would be a good choice for Lady Jessica, since she did a great job as a queen in The White Queen. The only problem is that she (at 34) is a little young to be the mother of a 22 year old. Unless they can make her seem older and him younger, their mother-son relationship may seem a little unbelievable.
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Hockeyfrilla
Swe prospect fanatic
Tawnos
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Chalmet may be 22, but he's as baby-faced as they come. He can easily pass off as high school with minimal makeup work done, so I don't see many issues there. It's not like they're going to make the character the same age as he is, and he absolutely looks younger than his age. Smart choice, as he's probably a way better actor than most kids around the actual character's age are. Likewise, Ferguson wouldn't need that much extra work done either to make it look like her character had a kid at a young age 15 years ago.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
I don’t really have an issue with casting an older actor because as the child of a Duke, Paul was treated as an adult very early in life.
He was trained to avoid assassination attempts, hand to hand combat, Bene Gesserit skills, Atreides battle language and code phrases, pre-Mentat awareness and any number of other skills.
He was not a child by the standards of our society, or even in their own context.
The book is specific in saying that he had no friends, no companions of his own age, only his House’s retainers who served as his teachers.
I’d prefer a more skilled actor than simply trying to pick someone who happens to be the same physical age.
He was trained to avoid assassination attempts, hand to hand combat, Bene Gesserit skills, Atreides battle language and code phrases, pre-Mentat awareness and any number of other skills.
He was not a child by the standards of our society, or even in their own context.
The book is specific in saying that he had no friends, no companions of his own age, only his House’s retainers who served as his teachers.
I’d prefer a more skilled actor than simply trying to pick someone who happens to be the same physical age.
ThePhoenixx
Registered User
- Aug 7, 2005
- 9,299
- 5,771
It's really difficult to adapt a novel that spends the majority of its time in the characters head.
That's why we had to put up with the horrible voice overs in the movie.
That's why we had to put up with the horrible voice overs in the movie.
BigMac1212
I feel...alone.
That's another reason that Paul should be and appear to be around 14 (as he is in the original novel), IMO. You would assume that there would be all kinds of young men 18 and older running around the palace, serving as guards, officers, workers and such. He needs to be young enough to not fit in with any of them.
I'm not saying that a 14-year-old should've been cast, mind you, just someone who could pull off 14. I think that Jack Gleeson from Game of Thrones is a good example. He was 18 when he first portrayed Joffrey, but he looked 14. Even though Chalmet similarly looks a lot younger than his age, he's still 23 and I think that it's highly doubtful that he's going to end up appearing any younger than 18. Looking at least that age, like a young man, undermines Paul's clinging to his parents and House retainers and the crisis when he suddenly becomes head of his House.
I'm not arguing that everything is ruined or that the film won't be good. Villeneuve is unlikely to let us down and will make it work. I just would've preferred this one detail (Paul's age) from the novel to have been adhered to, if only to noticeably distance it from the previous adaptations that fudged the same detail and, because it has a profound, cascading effect on the entire story, were quite a bit different from the novel for it.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
It is interesting that many films cast two actors to play one character but Dune didn't go this route, either in the film or in the Sci-Fi miniseries IIRC.
Another reason that I really like the idea of a younger actor than in those past adaptations is the potential for seeing the same actor grow in the role. For example, an 18yo could've made to look 14 in the early scenes of the first part (Villeneuve is reportedly spanning the first novel across two films/parts) and then closer to his real age by the end of the second. He could've then appeared to be a young man in any sequels that followed. Having Paul look a couple years older in each film would've given each one a unique flavor and put it in neat chronological order, like the Harry Potter films. It would've also made the series feel different than the current Star Wars trilogy, which is probably what it'll be compared most to and which features only adult actors (and, so far, no time lapse).
Hockeyfrilla
Swe prospect fanatic
Casting news:
Charlotte Rampling as Reverend Mother Mohiam
Oscar Isaac as Duke Leto Atreides
Zendaya as Chani
Charlotte Rampling as Reverend Mother Mohiam
Oscar Isaac as Duke Leto Atreides
Zendaya as Chani
Blackhawkswincup
RIP Fugu
Its been longtime since I read books or watched the mini series but wasn't Leto a lot older?
Isaac seems far too young to pass as Leto
Isaac seems far too young to pass as Leto
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Not sure about Oscar Isaac and Zendaya in those roles, and I like both of them.
I'll always picture him as Jurgen Prochnow.
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