Zero chance players turn down scholarships to play in this league.
News Article: Dundon New Chairman of AAF
- Thread starter Anton Dubinchuk
- Start date
Primetime8
Registered User
I've only heard good things about this league and it drew more viewers than the Primetime Saturday NBA game between the Thunder and Rockets.
HisIceness
This is Hurricanes Hockey
I get that Tepper is all in on a franchise but I'm not kidding when I say that I think Raleigh would support a franchise better long-term than Charlotte. I see way more people playing pickup soccer in Raleigh than I do here for one, and there's less sports competition to deal with.
CanesFanBudMan
Borg member
- Jun 14, 2016
- 1,739
- 6,986
At this point yes, but for how long? Playing in a pro league definitely has advantages over playing in college. The players can spend more time training rather than class (or finding a paper writer), make money, and could avoid the NCAA rules and regulations.
Now this is a long shot, but if the quality of competition in the league stayed high and the league showed it wasn't a joke and had some staying power I could see NFL bound high schoolers going there instead of college
TheBigKahuna
Registered User
So far, the league has drawn more viewers than expected. I'd assume there is money to be made in tv or franchising, etc. I also doubt he dumped the whole 250 in at once.
This type of league also becomes a safety valve for guys who have to rely on colleges to cheat to get them in and keep them in. The NCAA outwardly appears to actually be pretending to crack down on that sort of thing. We all know that only a very small percentage of college football and basketball players ever actually attend college. Most would never have gotten a sniff based on academics. This becomes a 2nd option. A "legal" option.
And MLS isn't coming to Raleigh. That ship has sailed.
This type of league also becomes a safety valve for guys who have to rely on colleges to cheat to get them in and keep them in. The NCAA outwardly appears to actually be pretending to crack down on that sort of thing. We all know that only a very small percentage of college football and basketball players ever actually attend college. Most would never have gotten a sniff based on academics. This becomes a 2nd option. A "legal" option.
And MLS isn't coming to Raleigh. That ship has sailed.
Svechhammer
THIS is hockey?
- Jun 8, 2017
- 23,667
- 86,926
The second they can get some actual honest to goodness cash in their pockets for going this route (not scholarship funds, actual paychecks) is the second the NCAA starts to get worried. And if this AAF is in a partnership with the NFL, where the NFL has an opportunity to actually make money off it?
Svechhammer
THIS is hockey?
- Jun 8, 2017
- 23,667
- 86,926
I don't disagree. Raleigh would be a better fit for the league.
Unfortunately, the MLS push in Raleigh has effectively failed while the one in Charlotte is growing momentum with a dedicated owner. If NC is going to get a MLS team, it'll be in Charlotte.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
I don't trust the Athletic's accuracy on this story. Obviously Dundon buying in is true, but the spin they are putting on this, that he rescued the league that couldn't make week2 payroll is a little dubious.
1. They didn't get to week two and say "Dang, we ran out of money" and then call around, find Dundon who agrees on a whim to just toss $250M their way. No, they've obviously been in talks with him prior to this and he was probably a planned investor for a while now. Maybe he was just waiting to make sure the league could get itself off the ground, and the big thing is their app which is going to revolutionize sports viewing and fantasy sports. It works, and maybe Dundon wanted to see that it works first. But certainly a $250M deal didn't just fall into place within matter of days.
2. The excuse that it's because they would miss payroll. The total contract value in the league for the entire season is $34M, so about $3.4M each week. They are also paying $800k/week for stadium usage, plus it sounds like they're possibly paying the networks to air the games, they also have travel, insurance and marketing. One savvy fan I heard from in a facebook group who has experience with this type of thing estimates that their year expenses for all of that is $25M. With payroll, their weekly expenses would be $6M. So a $250M investment could fund this league for 4 seasons.
So it looks like Dundon had his eye on this all along, and the $250M number isn't a one-time life preserver but a long-term buy in figure based on the total valuation of the league to give him a majority stake and become chairman. The Athletic puts this in a negative light "Oh look, this new league can't make payroll!" when in fact this is obviously a huge positive for the league.
Also, if you're not watching, it's actually a pretty good product as long as you keep in mind that it's a start-up developmental league. Their goal isn't to compete with the NFL but compliment it and eventually become the minor league affiliate of the NFL. Bill Polian stated that the league has a 5-10 year goal of affiliating with the NFL to where that league will send their practice squad players and futures contracts to AAF teams.
I'd also bet on Raleigh getting an expansion team with this news. Currently NC is Atlanta Legends territory and they have draft rights to Carolina Panthers players. Each AAF team has rights to four NFL teams and at least 13 NCAA teams as well as CFL teams. The Atlanta Legends draft rights currently are:
NFL
Carolina Panthers
Atlanta Falcons
Washington Redskins
Jacksonville Jaguars
CFL
Toronto Argonauts
NCAA
North Carolina
Clemson
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Virgina Tech
Virginia
Albany State
Clark Atlanta
Fort Valley State
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Kennesaw State
Mercer
Morehouse
Savannah State
Shorter
Valdosta State
West Georgia
1. They didn't get to week two and say "Dang, we ran out of money" and then call around, find Dundon who agrees on a whim to just toss $250M their way. No, they've obviously been in talks with him prior to this and he was probably a planned investor for a while now. Maybe he was just waiting to make sure the league could get itself off the ground, and the big thing is their app which is going to revolutionize sports viewing and fantasy sports. It works, and maybe Dundon wanted to see that it works first. But certainly a $250M deal didn't just fall into place within matter of days.
2. The excuse that it's because they would miss payroll. The total contract value in the league for the entire season is $34M, so about $3.4M each week. They are also paying $800k/week for stadium usage, plus it sounds like they're possibly paying the networks to air the games, they also have travel, insurance and marketing. One savvy fan I heard from in a facebook group who has experience with this type of thing estimates that their year expenses for all of that is $25M. With payroll, their weekly expenses would be $6M. So a $250M investment could fund this league for 4 seasons.
So it looks like Dundon had his eye on this all along, and the $250M number isn't a one-time life preserver but a long-term buy in figure based on the total valuation of the league to give him a majority stake and become chairman. The Athletic puts this in a negative light "Oh look, this new league can't make payroll!" when in fact this is obviously a huge positive for the league.
Also, if you're not watching, it's actually a pretty good product as long as you keep in mind that it's a start-up developmental league. Their goal isn't to compete with the NFL but compliment it and eventually become the minor league affiliate of the NFL. Bill Polian stated that the league has a 5-10 year goal of affiliating with the NFL to where that league will send their practice squad players and futures contracts to AAF teams.
I'd also bet on Raleigh getting an expansion team with this news. Currently NC is Atlanta Legends territory and they have draft rights to Carolina Panthers players. Each AAF team has rights to four NFL teams and at least 13 NCAA teams as well as CFL teams. The Atlanta Legends draft rights currently are:
NFL
Carolina Panthers
Atlanta Falcons
Washington Redskins
Jacksonville Jaguars
CFL
Toronto Argonauts
NCAA
North Carolina
Clemson
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Virgina Tech
Virginia
Albany State
Clark Atlanta
Fort Valley State
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Kennesaw State
Mercer
Morehouse
Savannah State
Shorter
Valdosta State
West Georgia
- Oct 31, 2007
- 39,050
- 40,310
As long as this doesn't affect the Canes or Dundon's ability to spend money to improve the team/organization, I couldn't care less.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
As for player foregoing college for AAF, I believe AAF is keeping the NFL's three year rule. AAF is not going to attempt to compete with the NFL, they want to be a partner, and undercutting the NFL on the draft would ruin that chance.
Now the XFL has talked about taking players out of high school...
Now the XFL has talked about taking players out of high school...
Joe McGrath
Registered User
- Oct 29, 2009
- 18,085
- 37,913
Well said. If anything it keeps him from being too hands on with the Canes.
TheBigKahuna
Registered User
This isn't an NFL competitor as some have mistakenly suggested. They weren't foolish enough to try that again. By trying to work WITH the NFL, they give themselves a slight chance.
AeroFishOne
The Curriest of the Curry’s
- Feb 5, 2010
- 1,323
- 4,696
If he has 250 million dollars to flush down the toilet, why are we still a budget team?
Because money alone doesn’t buy championships. Smart drafting, movement and well placed money does.
Yeah, my understanding is that the AAF is essentially an NFL offseason/feeder league.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
- 48,313
- 97,671
It "is" an NFL offseason/feeder league or it "hopes to be" an NFL offseason/feeder league? I'm not being sarcastic here with that question. I never heard of this league until this post so I had to look it up and know nothing about it.
NotOpie
"Puck don't lie"
I believe the key is the "minor league" affiliation concept. The NFL, if I read the article correctly, is an investor the the AAF. Also, this isn't Dundon, plopping down $250 million all at once, he likely pushed a bet of about $50 million into the center of the table and said, "I'm the dealer now". There's an interesting theme running through some of his most recent investments. He built a world class golf club (lead investor) in Dallas in the hopes of attracting PGA event(s). He is one of, if not the lead investor in Top Golf. Of course, we know he's the owner of the Hurricanes....and now the lead investor in the AAF.
If the AAF truly can become the double A of the NFL (because, let's face it, the NCAA is the triple A), it might have a similar chance of flourishing as does minor league baseball. Stadiums with 8,000 to 12,000 fans probably make the league a winner if there's some TV/Internet revenue.
Speaking of Top Golf, sooner rather than later, that venture is likely to go public and when it does, Mr. Dundon is going to have to do something with all of that cash. My guess is that his purported $1.1 billion net worth isn't accounting for what is likely a significant windfall from that investment alone.
To me, this is a pretty significant risk, but not one that was probably taken lightly. I don't get the sense that TD throws his money away carelessly. He probably has a plan that is more likely to work out than not. After all, attendance at Carolina Hurricanes games is up something like 17% since he bought the franchise.
Rich Nixon
No Prior Knowledge of "Flyers"
It wants to be. Basically its appeal is that it plays once the NFL season has ended, and it has some rule tweaks that football fans in theory have been asking for: Less commercials, a universal "sky judge" who can overrule bad calls, etc.
So, it's aiming to grow enough to affiliate with the NFL, and also serve as the NFL's testing ground for product improvements. Basically it's put together everything you'd expect from a developmental league and is auditioning.
The Faulker 27
Registered User
It's obviously an investment, but also a good time to make another splash with all the coverage the Hurricanes are getting right now, and in turn Dundon. He definitely knows how to create a buzz.
NotOpie
"Puck don't lie"
Correction: NFL is not an investor in the AAF. The NFL Network is a digital partner....whatever that means.
Still if feels more cooperative than competitive.
Still if feels more cooperative than competitive.
It means NFLN will be broadcasting some games online for the AAF. I think they will have some AAF games on the NFLN channel as well.
It's a cheap source of football for the NFLN to broadcast. They get to show some support for the league and likely are getting paid to show live football in the process. NFLN in the off-season is a wasteland, so this makes sense.
Regarding the question of why, I think Dundon sees potential in a feeder league that isn't McMahon owned. And I think he looks over at Carter-Finley and sees a potential location for a team to play during these months that would bring more fans in. Maybe he even tries to create some double-headers between the teams to drum up interest in both.
In terms of viability, I think long-term this league only makes sense if the NFL requires 3 years post-HS to play in the NFL. Allow for college or AAF or XFL as the time after HS. Then this becomes a viable feeder league.
In terms of viability, I think long-term this league only makes sense if the NFL requires 3 years post-HS to play in the NFL. Allow for college or AAF or XFL as the time after HS. Then this becomes a viable feeder league.
Canes
Registered User
I don't think he invested that much. It's more like he put in $X amount to get Y% of league ownership giving the league a valuation of 250 million dollars, which seems sort of high to me but not outrageous.If he has 250 million dollars to flush down the toilet, why are we still a budget team?
Edit: Apparently ESPN is saying that he did invest 250 million which I still find really hard to believe. That's in the ballpark of what he just paid for the Hurricanes in a much more stable and proven league.
Last edited:
Legionnaire11
Registered User
So far NFLN has shown one game on each Saturday and Sunday.
Games are also broadcast on TNT and CBS Sports Network.
There is a total of four games each week between the two teams, two on Saturday and two on Sunday with an afternoon game and a primetime game on each day.
I've been able to see 7 of the 8 games thanks to their broadcast schedule.
They also stream every game free on the mobile app, but it's just the skycam footage with no commentary or score overlay.
Games are also broadcast on TNT and CBS Sports Network.
There is a total of four games each week between the two teams, two on Saturday and two on Sunday with an afternoon game and a primetime game on each day.
I've been able to see 7 of the 8 games thanks to their broadcast schedule.
They also stream every game free on the mobile app, but it's just the skycam footage with no commentary or score overlay.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
- Sep 6, 2006
- 48,313
- 97,671
I guess I'm still struggling to see a business model unless the hope is that the NFL eventually takes over it. There is so much pageantry, history, marketing, team loyalty, etc...with the NFL that attracts fans. Most fans I know are passionate about their team (Packers, Bears, Cowboys, etc..) or like other aspects of the NFL (football pools, fantasy football, superbowl, etc..)
Like I said though, I know nothing about this league and Tom Dundon is certainly better at making money than I am, so I'm sure there's a plan here. Would be interesting to know what it is.
Like I said though, I know nothing about this league and Tom Dundon is certainly better at making money than I am, so I'm sure there's a plan here. Would be interesting to know what it is.
Canes
Registered User
I think the biggest thing is the schedule. I'm pretty much done with watching football after the Super Bowl. I'd be much more interested in a pre-season type league that starts mid to late summer, or one that plays during the NFL season but on Tuesdays or Wednesdays. I get that they want to capitalize off of being before baseball and any remaining interest in football after the Super Bowl but it just doesn't work for me.
