Dumb coach trades young cheap and skilled forward thread | Now with MOAR Sprong

[UnrealMachine]

Okay, it's fair to say because you say it. Glad we cleared that up

In terms of passing, he's definitely better than Johnson and Oleksiak. He's about on par with both Maatta and Dumoulin, who are both good at moving the puck. They're not good enough to be the primary puck mover on a pair, but they're still good puck movers. I don't know what games you've been watching if you're saying his passing is "below average".

So your iron clad counter to my opinion is... another opinion? Being allegedly better than Johnson or Oleksiak at passing does not make one any better than below average. Massive rounding (up) error to put Pettersson on par with Maatta and Dumoulin at passing. Based on his games played with the Pens so far I have not come away with the impression that he is a better passer than half of the D in the league (or team), hence the below average assessment.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So your iron clad counter to my opinion is... another opinion? Being allegedly better than Johnson or Oleksiak at passing does not make one any better than below average. Massive rounding (up) error to put Pettersson on par with Maatta and Dumoulin at passing. Based on his games played with the Pens so far I have not come away with the impression that he is a better passer than half of the D in the league (or team), hence the below average assessment.

Just agree to disagree I guess, I have been very happy with both Pettersson's skating and puck moving ever since acquiring him. He's getting deserved powerplay time based on him looking good with the puck on his stick. He's definitely a better puck mover than Johnson (who was supposed to be better) and Oleksiak, and he's not a worse puck mover than Maatta or Dumoulin. That isn't "rounding up", that's watching his skating and puck moving talent in the games he has played here so far.

Seriously, 4 games? When some of our arguments was that he needed a longer look especially since he lost a year of development time due to service time mismanagement? I don't even.

So we can't talk about how he has done so far with the Ducks because some Sprong fanboys wanted to give him half a season guaranteed with Crosby or Malkin, regardless of how he did? That makes perfect sense. It's not like Sprong fans were thumping their chest after the first game when Sprong had a goal, that definitely didn't happen.

 

[Fogel]

If you think 4 games is a sufficient sample size for analysis, go ahead and I'll agree to disagree. I'd even argue for someone who had lost a year due to mismanagement, that he needed more time for evaluation, not less.

Also, if you think that because people acted in a certain way gives you license to act the same way, that is your prerogative and I'll agree to disagree on that point too.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think you keep players in a position of strength just in case multiple people get injured or play poorly. Losing two top players in their position and having a third underproduce is not typical.

That being said, some of what you say is just a little disingenuous. Scoring is not this teams issue. We're ninth in terms of goals per game this year. We're 21st in goals against. Spring helps us with one (maybe?), but not the other.

Like I said though, there's no "just in case" at play here. Rust was garbage and Hornqvist was injured while Sprong was on the team and Sullivan was denying him opportunity. That wasn't a hypothetical, that was happening. The problem was compounded with the injury to Simon, but RW wasn't a strength when Sprong was here either.

And yes, depth scoring is an issue on this team. It's not the only issue, but it is an issue - we're a team defined by our offense and we're struggling a lot more there than in previous years. The GA can be addressed by doing something about Maatta and JJ, which is an obvious festering problem.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If you think 4 games is a sufficient sample size for analysis, go ahead and I'll agree to disagree. I'd even argue for someone who had lost a year due to mismanagement, that he needed more time for evaluation, not less.

Also, if you think that because people acted in a certain way gives you license to act the same way, that is your prerogative and I'll agree to disagree on that point too.

So you can't judge how he has done in the 4 games he has played with the Ducks because it was only 4 games? Okay. I'm not saying he sucks because he hasn't done much with Anaheim, I'm just saying how he has done so far. Why can't you look at how he has done in a small sample size and talk about how he has done in that specific sample size?

 

[Shady Machine]

I've actually really liked what I've seen from Pettersson in the offensive zone, he seems to have really good passing skills and he's smart with the puck in the offensive zone. He misses the net/his shot gets blocked a lot, but you can improve on that. I think people are underselling him by purely calling him a DFD.

He's a DFD that can contribute offensively here and there. That's totally okay because we needed that piece, especially if there is any chance the org moves on from Maatta.

If he continues to progress, he could be a really nice player to insulate Schultz, leaving a Riikola-xxx as a 3rd pairing in time. With the players we have on D, assuming all playing at potential, I'd be stoked with:

Dumo-Letang
Petterson-Schultz
Maatta-Riikola
Big Rig

Shoot Johnson to the moon. Alternatively, I'm okay with trading Maatta for scoring depth and running with Riikola-Johnson

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Dumo-Letang
Petterson-Schultz
Maatta-Riikola
Big Rig

Shoot Johnson to the moon. Alternatively, I'm okay with trading Maatta for scoring depth and running with Riikola-Johnson

If you'd poll everyone here and asked: "which Dman would you like to get rid of?". JJ would win that hands-down

The problem is that he's not going anywhere because he's Sids BFF.
This is going to end up similar to Kunitz as he's gonna be playing every night, you have to figure out a way so that he does as little damage as possible.
I don't think ANY coach has the answer to that problem

 

[Riptide]

Seriously, 4 games? When some of our arguments was that he needed a longer look especially since he lost a year of development time due to service time mismanagement? I don't even.

Well that is the sum of his good games in Pittsburgh this season.

 

[EightyOne]

If JR needed a Sid BFF why oh why couldn't it be Mackinnon lol.

 

[3074326]

nvm, don't want to get involved

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Well that is the sum of his good games in Pittsburgh this season.

How many good games has ZAR had in his NHL career?

That's the other thing that got my goat about Sprong's banishment: if you want to say there were too many RW's in front of him (Kessel, Horny, Rust, Simon, etc) ok yea I can buy that argument

But they pigeon holed him as a RW in WBS...for an NHL team that is so desperate for LW's it just seemed like poor development/asset mgmt.
Sprong has stated he's played LW before and the AHL was the prime ground for him to try at LW. We know he's a fantastic RW, so perhaps increase his toolbox?

 

[Gurglesons]

How many good games has ZAR had in his NHL career?

That's the other thing that got my goat about Sprong's banishment: if you want to say there were too many RW's in front of him (Kessel, Horny, Rust, Simon, etc) ok yea I can buy that argument

But they pigeon holed him as a RW in WBS...for an NHL team that is so desperate for LW's it just seemed like poor development/asset mgmt.
Sprong has stated he's played LW before and the AHL was the prime ground for him to try at LW. We know he's a fantastic RW, so perhaps increase his toolbox?

Sprongggggggggggggggggg

Seriously, never has a nobody had such an impact on the Pens fan base.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Sprongggggggggggggggggg

Seriously, never has a nobody had such an impact on the Pens fan base.

I'm all team Penguins and not team Sprong
It doesn't matter if Petterson goes onto win a Norris trophy. You cannot state the Pens provided Sprong an environment or opportunity to succeed - that is a fact. You can also say that Sprong didn't do enough in his limited time to open any eyes - that is also a fact

It worries me that young talented players may be given the same crappy treatment by this organization in the future...

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm all team Penguins and not team Sprong
It doesn't matter if Petterson goes onto win a Norris trophy. You cannot state the Pens provided Sprong an environment or opportunity to succeed - that is a fact. You can also say that Sprong didn't do enough in his limited time to open any eyes - that is also a fact

It worries me that young talented players may be given the same crappy treatment by this organization in the future...

I can, and I don’t mind saying Sprong needed to be traded to succeed. Let’s see what Anaheim does with him when they are healthy.

 

[KIRK]

Sprongggggggggggggggggg

Seriously, never has a nobody had such an impact on the Pens fan base.

Never?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I'm all team Penguins and not team Sprong
It doesn't matter if Petterson goes onto win a Norris trophy. You cannot state the Pens provided Sprong an environment or opportunity to succeed - that is a fact. You can also say that Sprong didn't do enough in his limited time to open any eyes - that is also a fact

It worries me that young talented players may be given the same crappy treatment by this organization in the future...

They provided an opportunity and enviroment to succeed. All he had to do was play modestly well and he would have been Guentzeled instead of Plotnikoved. Thats it.

 

[Gurglesons]

Never?

View attachment 165179

Nowhere near as bad at all.

 

[DegenX]

Never?

View attachment 165179

Tangradi was kind of trending downward, but I still think Gillies ended his career.

 

[Riptide]

I'm all team Penguins and not team Sprong
It doesn't matter if Petterson goes onto win a Norris trophy. You cannot state the Pens provided Sprong an environment or opportunity to succeed - that is a fact. You can also say that Sprong didn't do enough in his limited time to open any eyes - that is also a fact

It worries me that young talented players may be given the same crappy treatment by this organization in the future...

I could see getting more worked up about it if Sprong had done more individually to force Sullivan's hand (and no I'm not talking production). But when only 1/4 of your games were good games, and your biggest weakness is the team's biggest flaw (GA/defensive issues) it shouldn't be all that surprising that you're not going to get gifted prime chances. That said, I'm not sure I would have traded him yet vs give him a couple games/shifts as we were getting hit with injuries. But I'm quite content with MP.

As for how this bodes for other young players... seeing how the two guys who took Sprong's spot/minutes were Simon and ZAR, both young players themselves, and that we traded Sprong for MP, another young player (who's playing) I'm not all that worried about it. I think the only reason people bring it up is that it's not about the "young players" (reminds me of the "think of the children" line people use whenever trying to appeal to ones emotion), but more about "which young players". Sprong was a favorite... to the point that Simon and ZAR were written off and/or dismissed by many this summer. And their favorite/pet wasn't playing, thus it doesn't matter that he was benched in favor of different young players, because now they can cry about how Sullivan treats young players.

 

[Gurglesons]

I can’t wait to hear about how Sprong’s development was ruined by Sullivan not playing him when he could’ve played Rust on LW or over Simon in a couple years when he signs with a Euro team.

On a side note, through 4 games playing top six minutes he’s right at his career average of around .25-30 ppg.

 

[DegenX]

If you're only coming here to troll, keep in mind that your post bumps the thread, thus keeping a discussion you don't like alive. Use the ignore thread feature if you can't help yourself.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I can’t wait to hear about how Sprong’s development was ruined by Sullivan not playing him when he could’ve played Rust on LW or over Simon in a couple years when he signs with a Euro team.

On a side note, through 4 games playing top six minutes he’s right at his career average of around .25-30 ppg.

What was ZAR's P/G through his first 4 games with a top 6 center this year?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I can’t wait to hear about how Sprong’s development was ruined by Sullivan not playing him when he could’ve played Rust on LW or over Simon in a couple years when he signs with a Euro team.

On a side note, through 4 games playing top six minutes he’s right at his career average of around .25-30 ppg.

It's essentially his rookie season. Even if he got some minutes next to Sid or Geno this year, I wasn't expecting more than around ~10-15 goals from him. Maybe more IF he was literally stapled to Geno's wing all season, but more reasonably around the 10-15 goal range.

 

[Riptide]

What was ZAR's P/G through his first 4 games with a top 6 center this year?

Why would we use a 4 game sample size, when we have a larger sample size to look at? Sprong has only played 4 games with Anaheim so far...

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

What was ZAR's P/G through his first 4 games with a top 6 center this year?

Has he played more than 1 game with a top 6 center? Because the answer would then be 3.