Confirmed with Link: Ducks sign Carter Rowney (3 years, 3.4m total)

[Nurmagomedov]

If Rowney was going to turn into Nate Thompson, he would have shown some signs if it at age 29. If that's the reason one is satisfied with giving out this contract, they're bending over backwards to do so.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

You're doing the same **** every time, there's really no point in continuing because every time it flies over your head (whether it's on purpose or not really doesn't matter).

You're the one trying very hard to make this personal to avoid discussing the merits. Considering your entire argument seems to be that it's a bad contract regardless of how he plays, that's not a bad strategy. I too would try and change the subject if my point was terrible.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

If Rowney was going to turn into Nate Thompson, he would have shown some signs if it at age 29. If that's the reason one is satisfied with giving out this contract, they're bending over backwards to do so.

That was just an easy example, given the similar role and same 3 year term. It was also a bit of a set up because Rowney doesn't have to be that good to live up to that contract, so to speak. Like, if hes the fourth line center, is winning a good amount of faceoffs and is generally playing ok, that's easily enough. Chris Wagner would've been a much better name to bring up at first as that's probably the level of play he'd have to bring and Wags got a very similar deal.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

You're the one trying very hard to make this personal to avoid discussing the merits. Considering your entire argument seems to be that it's a bad contract regardless of how he plays, that's not a bad strategy. I too would try and change the subject if my point was terrible.

No. My argument is that he's done nothing to deserve that kind of contract from Ducks, it's in plain writing, and, after you mention low bar, that there is no bar low enough for him to cross to justify him getting this contract now when looking at his body of work. That is my argument, and it's written in plain English. You trying to make it "what if he becomes to xyz level of play" does not change that fact that that was not my argument in the first place. You not only twisted that argument, but you also went off on a tangent discussing general merits of players getting paid what they're paid for. Quite ridiculous the amount of first misrepresentation, followed by LOL's and claims of dumb statements. Also quite rich from you to call me out on trying to make this personal.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

No. My argument is that he's done nothing to deserve that kind of contract from Ducks, it's in plain writing, and, after you mention low bar, that there is no bar low enough for him to cross to justify him getting this contract now when looking at his body of work. That is my argument, and it's written in plain English. You trying to make it "what if he becomes to xyz level of play" does not change that fact that that was not my argument in the first place. You not only twisted that argument, but you also went off on a tangent discussing general merits of players getting paid what they're paid for. Quite ridiculous the amount of first misrepresentation, followed by LOL's and claims of dumb statements. Also quite rich from you to call me out on trying to make this personal.

You had a mini rant about me specifically, yeah I'd say that's making it personal. I'm making this personal because I threw an lol in there and vented a little bit about the societal trend of people thinking athletes dont deserve their salaries? That's weird and I apologize for triggering you.

And for all the talk of misinterpreting posts and twisting arguments, sheesh. What I said was I thought the outrage was over the top because apparently no one considered the probability of him living up to that deal, or more specifically, how low of a bar he has to clear to live up to it. That's what you took issue with, saying it essentially doesn't matter, he doesn't deserve it in your eyes right now so what happens later won't change that. I'm not twisting shit, your argument just sucks.

 

[tomd]

It is wildly amusing to think that Carter Fricken Rowney is worth 7 pages of this nonsense. He's a 4th liner who kills penalties. Maybe that is actually worth $3.4 million over 3 years. Maybe not. But he represents only 1.4% of this year's cap. I suggest getting a little perspective here.

 

[Nurmagomedov]

That was just an easy example, given the similar role and same 3 year term. It was also a bit of a set up because Rowney doesn't have to be that good to live up to that contract, so to speak. Like, if hes the fourth line center, is winning a good amount of faceoffs and is generally playing ok, that's easily enough. Chris Wagner would've been a much better name to bring up at first as that's probably the level of play he'd have to bring and Wags got a very similar deal.

Wagner didn't get three years, even with 11 teams reportedly bidding. He's also younger and more proven. Wagner even probably got a bit of extra as a banger, GM's are known to overpay for that a bit. Doesn't that make the case that if Wagner got two years, Rowney should get one? I highly doubt there were multiple teams bidding on him with term on the table.

On a wider point, i'd say it's bad to sign free agent fourth liners in the hopes they can live up to the contract. If you're going to acquire a fourth liner from outside, get one you know will provide what you're looking for. Like Thompson. Even moreso if you're going to commit years on the deal. Warm bodies is what the farm/PTO is for, no?

I certainly hope that Rowney is a smashing success here. But even then, committing years to him wasn't warranted. Hell, we're still paying Fistric and he was much more proven when he got his 3 year deal to be the #7. I know there was injury but he was demoted to the minors even before that. 9 NHL games we got from him.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Wagner didn't get three years, even with 11 teams reportedly bidding. He's also younger and more proven. Wagner even probably got a bit of extra as a banger, GM's are known to overpay for that a bit. Doesn't that make the case that if Wagner got two years, Rowney should get one? I highly doubt there were multiple teams bidding on him with term on the table.

On a wider point, i'd say it's bad to sign free agent fourth liners in the hopes they can live up to the contract. If you're going to acquire a fourth liner from outside, get one you know will provide what you're looking for. Like Thompson. Even moreso if you're going to commit years on the deal. Warm bodies is what the farm/PTO is for, no?

I certainly hope that Rowney is a smashing success here. But even then, committing years to him wasn't warranted. Hell, we're still paying Fistric and he was much more proven when he got his 3 year deal to be the #7. I know there was injury but he was demoted to the minors even before that. 9 NHL games we got from him.

Wagner also might've taken less to go back home. But, the point was that it was similar contracts. It was one less year but a higher AAV and it's a very good bet Wagner will make more than Rowney over the next three seasons.

I also dont think the team is hoping he'll live up to it, we are because pretty much no one knows anything about the guy. The scouts and the front office would know a lot more and not to speak for them, but guessing they know or have a very good idea of what they're getting.

Also the Fistric thing is a very good example of the risks of multi-year deals and whatnot but that was all injury. Terrible how that ended for him.

Edit-Also forgot to add on Rowney specifically. I dont doubt there was heavy interest at all, even/especially over Wagner. GMs love these guys who basically will themselves to the NHL, but he was also a regular on a championship team and seemed to serve his role well enough. Fourth lines were getting paid this offseason, wouldn't at all surprise me that Rowney would get multiple multi-year offers for a seven figure AAV. Definitely also guessing that Bob Murray, who hates July 1st, wouldn't fall over himself to greatly overbid the entire league for literally anyone.

 

[Nurmagomedov]

Wagner also might've taken less to go back home. But, the point was that it was similar contracts. It was one less year but a higher AAV and it's a very good bet Wagner will make more than Rowney over the next three seasons.

I also dont think the team is hoping he'll live up to it, we are because pretty much no one knows anything about the guy. The scouts and the front office would know a lot more and not to speak for them, but guessing they know or have a very good idea of what they're getting.

Also the Fistric thing is a very good example of the risks of multi-year deals and whatnot but that was all injury. Terrible how that ended for him.

Fair enough. It does warrant pointing out that the same front office a few months ago thought Chimera and Kelly were worth bringing in. Our pro scouting is very hit and miss, has been for a long time.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

You had a mini rant about me specifically, yeah I'd say that's making it personal. I'm making this personal because I threw an lol in there and vented a little bit about the societal trend of people thinking athletes dont deserve their salaries? That's weird and I apologize for triggering you.

No, that was no mini rant, that was me stating we've had this very same dance before, with slight difference of me not letting you off the hook to straw-man me, or throw veiled insults, or go off on a tangent for whatever reason, yet another time.

And for all the talk of misinterpreting posts and twisting arguments, sheesh. What I said was I thought the outrage was over the top because apparently no one considered the probability of him living up to that deal, or more specifically, how low of a bar he has to clear to live up to it. That's what you took issue with, saying it essentially doesn't matter, he doesn't deserve it in your eyes right now so what happens later won't change that. I'm not twisting ****, your argument just sucks.

Posts #124 and #127 state clearly that my argument is BM/Ducks handing out yet another undeserved contract to player of Rowney's ilk, and no matter what happens it wont justify BM doing it yet another time, or serve as a justification for future blunders like this one, that bank on luck to pan out. You straw-man that into me claiming something else. You can keep doing it, it wont change the fact.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

No, that was no mini rant, that was me stating we've had this very same dance before, with slight difference of me not letting you off the hook to straw-man me, or throw veiled insults, or go off on a tangent for whatever reason, yet another time.


Posts #124 and #127 state clearly that my argument is BM/Ducks handing out yet another undeserved contract to player of Rowney's ilk, and no matter what happens it wont justify BM doing it yet another time, or serve as a justification for future blunders like this one, that bank on luck to pan out. You straw-man that into me claiming something else. You can keep doing it, it wont change the fact.

Nah it was a mini rant about me personally. That's why I rightly said you're making it personal, because you did, and I'm glad you admitted it.

And perfect, you also admit I'm not twisting anything. How the contract turns out doesn't matter and I'm saying that's very dumb. Like this is exactly what I've said and you're trying to claim it's a misinterpretation rather than confront how bad your own argument is. You should probably do the latter.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Fair enough. It does warrant pointing out that the same front office a few months ago thought Chimera and Kelly were worth bringing in. Our pro scouting is very hit and miss, has been for a long time.

True, but I've noticed a bit of a trend. They do the worst with established names, which might be because they dont really scout them as much as put way too much stock into their pasts. They do a lot better with lesser known guys, which is part of the reason I have some confidence about Rowney, as dumb and simple as that is.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Nah it was a mini rant about me personally. That's why I rightly said you're making it personal, because you did, and I'm glad you admitted it.

And perfect, you also admit I'm not twisting anything. How the contract turns out doesn't matter and I'm saying that's very dumb. Like this is exactly what I've said and you're trying to claim it's a misinterpretation rather than confront how bad your own argument is. You should probably do the latter.

This is amazing, like boxing a glacier.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

This is amazing, like boxing a glacier.

It is, you keep saying I'm twisting your words or something but we're in complete agreement on what your argument is. You believe that Rowney hasn't done anything to earn a three year commitment so anything after the fact is irrelevant, he still doesn't deserve it and that's what will always make it a bad contract.

 

[cheesymc]

WOW... 160+ posts on this signing... signaling what sort of year we can expect.

I'm sure BM wanted to offer 2 years sub 1M a year, but there must have been some team offering at least 2 years and so BM had to sweeten the pot. Maybe he wanted to stay with Pittsburgh and was willing to take a hometown discount....

I just hope our scouts saw something and he overachieves. All I have heard about this guy is that he hustles, is a good defensive forward, and plays with speed that our team is moving towards.

 

[imjustzach]

WOW... 160+ posts on this signing... signaling what sort of year we can expect.

I'm sure BM wanted to offer 2 years sub 1M a year, but there must have been some team offering at least 2 years and so BM had to sweeten the pot. Maybe he wanted to stay with Pittsburgh and was willing to take a hometown discount....

I just hope our scouts saw something and he overachieves. All I have heard about this guy is that he hustles, is a good defensive forward, and plays with speed that our team is moving towards.

Looking at his fancy stats, I think he was signed to fill a cogs-like role. With Kes seemingly out for the year, I'd like to see Cogs moved down to a line with Rowney and a defensive C. Make our 4th line the shutdown line. Puts less expectations to score (which I think is the only knock on cogs since it was the 2nd line) while letting them fulfill the role they're meant for.

 

[Getzmonster]

This contract is ridiculous until proven otherwise. That said, if this signing turns out to be a blunder by Murray, it'll be annoying, but I won't be losing sleep over it in the grand scheme of things.

Our center depth is a cluster**** until Kesler's status is more concrete and we see if any of the kids (Steel/Kossila/Other?) are ready. Not to mention Rico getting extended, otherwise it probably makes sense to move him at the deadline. With all of that uncertainty, I can understand if Bob isn't willing or able to chase down more expensive top six C options right now. But after Murray's fawning over SJ's 4th line quality and talk about rolling four lines, turning around and signing a career plug rather than splurge on a better quality depth C just doesn't sit right with me. That's a signing you make when center's 1-3 are very good and rock solid... when the 4th line is a bit of an afterthought. Doesn't fit our scenario.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Looking at his fancy stats, I think he was signed to fill a cogs-like role. With Kes seemingly out for the year, I'd like to see Cogs moved down to a line with Rowney and a defensive C. Make our 4th line the shutdown line. Puts less expectations to score (which I think is the only knock on cogs since it was the 2nd line) while letting them fulfill the role they're meant for.

Wouldn't necessarily mind that outcome assuming we can find some actual scorers for the second line somewhere.

 

[AngelDuck]

My question is: are we done? Have we given up on finding a LW with a scoring touch that we desperately need? Did we even try in the first place?

If so, the offense is going to be painfully bad

 

[mightyquack]

My question is: are we done? Have we given up on finding a LW with a scoring touch that we desperately need? Did we even try in the first place?

If so, the offense is going to be painfully bad

I guess the other question would be: Is it worth trying to find one with the team in this state of flux? Personally I'm not sure it is worth it with all the question marks with the team.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

I guess the other question would be: Is it worth trying to find one with the team in this state of flux? Personally I'm not sure it is worth it with all the question marks with the team.

I think you always have to try and see what's out there, but yeah not sure its urgent. Like you said, a lot of question marks, and I dont think its needed on day 1. I think people here underestimate the quality up front. It doesn't help when theres some uncertainty and the highest paid player has greatly declined, but theres still 5 40-50 point players on the roster, and that's not including Kesler if hes good to go. The next four aren't exactly slouches, either, although there's uncertainty with Eaves. Definitely enough talent IMO to see how things go and assess later.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

It is, you keep saying I'm twisting your words or something but we're in complete agreement on what your argument is. You believe that Rowney hasn't done anything to earn a three year commitment so anything after the fact is irrelevant, he still doesn't deserve it and that's what will always make it a bad contract.

But that is not my argument. I clearly stated Murray handed out yet another undeserved contract, then also said there is no bar low enough to pass to justify such modus operandi by Murray signing players of that ilk to such contracts. That is not the same argument you're saying I'm presenting.

I guess the other question would be: Is it worth trying to find one with the team in this state of flux? Personally I'm not sure it is worth it with all the question marks with the team.

I'm pretty sure it isn't, and Murray's course with the team as a GM is probably nearing it's end. Unless Gibson goes full Jiggy 03 in next PO.

Right now status quo seems like a best option.

 

[Static]

I wonder if Montreal's demands for patches go down. I'd assume we would be in on that if we can send salary the other way.

Then again, looking at our cap we don't have an obvious salary to send back that wouldn't hurt our lineup. So probably not.

 

[imjustzach]

I'm pretty sure it isn't, and Murray's course with the team as a GM is probably nearing it's end. Unless Gibson goes full Jiggy 03 in next PO.

Right now status quo seems like a best option.

A couple genuine questions: Are the scouting team and GM linked? By that I mean, if the GM goes, does the scouting team go with him or are their jobs independent of each other. Also how much of drafting is up to the GM vs his scouting team?

Just curious because while I don't have an issue with GMBM's body of work as a whole, I could understand if he was let go for accountability purposes. That being said, our drafting the past few years has been incredible imo and I would hate to lose whoever is responsible for it.

 

[Duck Off]

Why do people act like players don't deserve their contracts? It was offered to him, of course he deserves it.

That's a very odd way of looking at things IMO. That logic would suggest any player who signs any deal is "worth it". That seems a little too...literal to me. That logic would suggest that if someone signed Bieksa to 7 million this offseason, then he'd be "worth it". I don't agree with that logic at all.

Rowney has done nothing to suggest he's worth what he signed. Maybe he shows something he's never shown before, but as of today, he's done nothing to warrant that contract. If a guy can't consistently stay in the NHL, they aren't worth a multi year deal at 1+ per season. They just aren't.