Prospect Info: Ducks Prospect Info 2019-2020

[bsu]

Zegras going back to the Boston U team they will have NEXT season would be pointless, they will be a joke.

 

[AngelDuck]

You don’t pass up the opportunity to sign a player like Zegras, even if you think it’s be better to get one more year of college in

 

[Hockey Duckie]

You don’t pass up the opportunity to sign a player like Zegras, even if you think it’s be better to get one more year of college in

This doesn't make sense. If the org thinks it's better to get one more year of college, then that should be the best route. There's more aspects of the game that Zegras needs to improve upon, including his improving his mass.

IMO, Zegras is a tweener at this junction. He's slightly better than good at the NCAA, but probably not built enough at the pro stage. Terry, Comtois, and Steel all looked great before going pro. They're all better than AHL level, but not enough to sustain good productive play at the NHL level. So we're simply going to waste a year or two of Zegras' ELC just because he's better at passing that most NCAA players? What else does Zegras bring? What are his current weaknesses that need improving. When your offense fails, then what else do you bring?

Now, there is a possible dilemma that could spurt up. If the Ducks decide to keep Zegras in the NCAA for another year, then will Zegras play out four years in college just to go FA and pick his own team? There's that factor.

I just don't like players telling mgmt what they need to do without earning it at the NHL level. But that's just me. Also, we're not one player away from being consistent playoff contenders. We're trying to throttle down the youth movement b/c it didn't work out this season.

 

[ADHB]

Zegras is leaving school. Whether that’s best for him doesn’t matter. It’s his decision. The team can try to counsel him, but you can’t force him to go to college. The Ducks can’t “decide to keep” him there. It’s not the same as it would be for a junior player, where the Ducks would be in full control of where that player is assigned. If he leaves, the Ducks have to sign him. That’s all there is to it.

Hopefully he ends up spending most of the season in San Diego to get accustomed to the pro pace and the speed/size of the competition.

 

[Rasp]

Wouldn't Zegras develop better in the AHL? He would be playing our structure with our staff alongside his future NHL teammates.

Surely we have the facilities and staff required to help him bulk up too?

 

[Kalv]

Wouldn't Zegras develop better in the AHL? He would be playing our structure with our staff alongside his future NHL teammates.

Surely we have the facilities and staff required to help him bulk up too?

College have a nice schedule for building up strenght and bulk up. You can do it a bit in the A but none of that in the NHL.


Not worried at all Z goes all 4 years in college lol. I think I`ll be fine with Z in SD because the BU looks to be absolutely horrible next year, I just hope we don`t keep him up when it`s painfully obvious he could need a stint in the AHL, if it comes to that. A.k.a - Terry, Steel and Jones situation

 

[Hockey Duckie]

College have a nice schedule for building up strenght and bulk up. You can do it a bit in the A but none of that in the NHL.


Not worried at all Z goes all 4 years in college lol. I think I`ll be fine with Z in SD because the BU looks to be absolutely horrible next year, I just hope we don`t keep him up when it`s painfully obvious he could need a stint in the AHL, if it comes to that. A.k.a - Terry, Steel and Jones situation

You know what can prevent that situation of what's painfully obvious? Leave in college so you aren't tempted.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Zegras is leaving school. Whether that’s best for him doesn’t matter. It’s his decision. The team can try to counsel him, but you can’t force him to go to college. The Ducks can’t “decide to keep” him there. It’s not the same as it would be for a junior player, where the Ducks would be in full control of where that player is assigned. If he leaves, the Ducks have to sign him. That’s all there is to it.

Hopefully he ends up spending most of the season in San Diego to get accustomed to the pro pace and the speed/size of the competition.

Anaheim has no control of where a player is assigned for any junior player. There's CBA between the NHL and junior leagues that say the NHL cannot stash under 20 year old talents in the AHL. If Zegras was part of the junior leagues and wanted to leave it as a 19-year old, then he'd have to stay at the NHL or go to Europe.

Zegras can leave college, but that doesn't necessarily mean he needs to sign with the Ducks. The Ducks don't have to offer Zegras a contract at this point. So if Zegras leaves the NCAA as a 19-year old and the Ducks don't sign him, then Zegras would have to go to Europe to play.

Anaheim owns Zegras' rights. Although the Ducks cannot decide to keep Zegras in college, they can decide not to offer him an NHL contract. That would leave Zegras with only one option if the Ducks don't want to sign him, which is to go to Europe.

Although, the Ducks probably would sign Zegras b/c he's still 19-years old, his ELC can slide until he surpasses the NHL 9-games threshold. The problem here is can the Ducks org have enough will power not to exceed the 9-game NHL threshold? Anaheim blew that away with C Lundestrom as an 18-year old due to mass injuries. The temptation will always be there.

Context:
Jack Hughes, 1st overall in 2019 draft. 5'10 and 170 lbs.

• Games = 61 NHL games
• Scoring: 7 g + 14 a = 21 pts
• Plus/minus = -26

Trevor Zegras, 9th overall in 2019 draft. 6'0 and 174 lbs.

If we're all in agreement that Hughes is a better prospect than Zegras and Hughes struggled at the NHL level, then what makes us believe Zegras won't struggle either, where Zegras is more lithe than Hughes. College is the best place for Zegras to gain mass and strength, which can help him battle the rigors of NHL level play. We have Troy Terry, who's also an offensive phenom, but he's still a pushover and struggling to be consistent with offense at the NHL level, but can dominate with one leg at the AHL level (and still not drive play).

Just because we're in a desperate situation doesn't mean we have to be desperate in our actions that can setback the long term planning. We already did that with C Lundestrom as well as 2019 youth push. I'm exhausted from desperate actions. We already have C BO Groulx coming to the AHL next season to platoon with C Lundestrom. We can afford to keep Zegras in the NCAA and not be tempted to throw him into the NHL so early to where we trip his ELC. Also, we don't have enough established finishers on our roster to take advantage of Zegras' skill at this moment. Let our nest egg continue to develop physically as well as become a more well-rounded player in a very structured environment of the college schedule... and possibly some humility b/c his aggressiveness is crossing the border into hubris.

 

[ADHB]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue. All I was saying was the Ducks cannot “assign” Zegras to his college team. It’s entirely his choice to stay or not.

And I’m well aware an NHL team cannot put a Canadian junior player in the AHL. The point was in those situations, the NHL club has full control of whether the player is in the NHL or not, and they can assign that player back to his junior team. They have no say when it comes to Zegras re: college.

You keep saying things that imply the Ducks can “choose” to keep Zegras in school. No, they can’t.

 

[AngelDuck]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue. All I was saying was the Ducks cannot “assign” Zegras to his college team. It’s entirely his choice to stay or not.

And I’m well aware an NHL team cannot put a Canadian junior player in the AHL. The point was in those situations, the NHL club has full control of whether the player is in the NHL or not, and they can assign that player back to his junior team. They have no say when it comes to Zegras re: college.

You keep saying things that imply the Ducks can “choose” to keep Zegras in school. No, they can’t.

He cannot grasp that no matter how you explain it to him. It's like trying to herd cats, honestly

 

[Sojourn]

Wouldn't Zegras develop better in the AHL? He would be playing our structure with our staff alongside his future NHL teammates.

Surely we have the facilities and staff required to help him bulk up too?

Debatable. They are both good development environments. For bulking up, I actually think college is probably a better bet. The reason is a lower number of games. There is more opportunity for practice and conditioning when you’re playing fewer games. On the other hand, the AHL has a higher level of hockey and it will push you harder to get better, and against professional players.

I don’t really think one league is better than the other, any more than playing in the Major Juniors is better. I think it depends on the player, where they are in their development, and whatever program they are in at the time.

It’s kind of moot. If he decides to go professional that’s his decision, and the team is going to support him and give him the resources to be successful. They’ll sign him, probably hook him up with someone who will help put together a professional training program for him, and see how he looks in rookie and then training camp. It’s up to Zegras to be ready.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue. All I was saying was the Ducks cannot “assign” Zegras to his college team. It’s entirely his choice to stay or not.

And I’m well aware an NHL team cannot put a Canadian junior player in the AHL. The point was in those situations, the NHL club has full control of whether the player is in the NHL or not, and they can assign that player back to his junior team. They have no say when it comes to Zegras re: college.

You keep saying things that imply the Ducks can “choose” to keep Zegras in school. No, they can’t.

What? You truly cannot comprehend that I'm stating the Ducks can "choose not to offer Zegras an NHL contract". FACT. This is a second time I'm stating this choice.

Anaheim owns Zegras' rights. Although the Ducks cannot decide to keep Zegras in college, they can decide not to offer him an NHL contract.

Where in that quote did I state that the Ducks can choose to keep Zegras in school? Do you English, bruh? Do both you and AngelDuck subscribe to the same educational track to continue to tarnish what I said when it's quite apparent in my quote that I never said that you think I said. Seriously. LoL English is your friend. Words are your friends. Narratives are not equal to facts.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Debatable. They are both good development environments. For bulking up, I actually think college is probably a better bet. The reason is a lower number of games. There is more opportunity for practice and conditioning when you’re playing fewer games. On the other hand, the AHL has a higher level of hockey and it will push you harder to get better, and against professional players.

I don’t really think one league is better than the other, any more than playing in the Major Juniors is better. I think it depends on the player, where they are in their development, and whatever program they are in at the time.

It’s kind of moot. If he decides to go professional that’s his decision, and the team is going to support him and give him the resources to be successful. They’ll sign him, probably hook him up with someone who will help put together a professional training program for him, and see how he looks in rookie and then training camp. It’s up to Zegras to be ready.

I look at Jack Hughes as a determinant to not offer Zegras an NHL contract. Zegras has a lot of offensive skills, but there are flaws in his game. Yet it's that lithe frame that makes me cringe. What's great about the NCAA and playing on the weekends is recovery time. That's just as important to building mass when you hit the gym. Because the schedule is consistent, you can maximize that mass growth. Now, if Zegras hasn't been trying to gain mass and simply relying on his skill against his peers, then he might be in for a rude awakening a la Jack Hughes. But Hughes isn't the only 2019 prospect to hit the NHL ice. Kakko and Dach also didn't set ablaze the NHL.

I don't trust the Ducks to practice restraint if Zegras in the NHL. Lundestrom is the latest example of that lack of restraint as he played 15 NHL games as he started the NHL as an 18-year old. I think we really messed up Lundestrom's progression as he should have never crossed the 10-game threshold and still be playing across the pond, honing his offensive craft that still needs developing. The Ducks were desperate back then. With Zegras' offensive talent a lure, we could be rushing yet another youth to the NHL ranks. All our youths basically were meh this past season (Steel, Terry, Jones, Comtois, Lundestrom, Larsson, and Guhle).

Also, remember during the off-season that GM Murray said he would have competition for the kids to be at the NHL level. Welp, that wasn't the case as Bob went full youth... you never go full youth!

The scope I have is a bit bigger and that's part of the factor that I don't want Zegras going pro this year - I don't trust mgmt. Zegras has talent, but if you agree that Jack Hughes is more talented than Zegras and Hughes struggled at the NHL level, then why tempt yourself to bring Zegras to the pros when he's not completely dominating everywhere on the ice. I keep hearing, "BU doesn't have anything next year and Zegras should go pro." Don't you want to see Zegras lead players that aren't as talented to see how well he can survive with he doesn't have top end closers? Because that's what we're lacking now.

 

[ADHB]

If the org thinks it's better to get one more year of college, then that should be the best route.

If the Ducks decide to keep Zegras in the NCAA for another year

You know what can prevent that situation of what's painfully obvious? Leave in college so you aren't tempted.

We can afford to keep Zegras in the NCAA and not be tempted to throw him into the NHL so early to where we trip his ELC.

I give up.

 

[bsu]

Why would you want Zegras to develop on that BU team they are going to have next season....people that want that probably also think Steel is developing well with Jones and Sherwood.

They are going to have no skill no finishers get him out of there asap.

 

[KickHisAssZegrass]

IMO, Ideally he spends next season in SD with specialized training and a strong off ice plan that builds on what we can assume is an off season of strength and some mass building. I think playing a couple games a week, even if a bit outmatched physically would be fine for a special talent like him... I think about 50 games should be his max

 

[Exit Dose]

It's way too early to start saying that Lundestrom's development has been impeded. The only thing that we can say will absolutely do that is the pandemic, but that's across the board for prospects and players.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

It's way too early to start saying that Lundestrom's development has been impeded. The only thing that we can say will absolutely do that is the pandemic, but that's across the board for prospects and players.

Interesting.

I'm bored. I'll take up this chore that Lundestrom's development has been impeded. Although I don't think it's impeded, but it's not a maximized progression.

Year	Team	League	Games	G	A	P	PPG	Plus/Minus
2016	Lulea HF J20	SuperElit	10	3	4	7	0.7	3
	Lulea HF	SHL	45	3	3	6	0.133333	-5
	Swe U18(all)	Inter-jr	19	3	8	11	0.578947	-2
Playoffs	Lulea HF J20		3	1	2	3	1	1
	Lulea HF		1	0	0	0	0	0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

We see that at a lower league, Isac produces on offense (SuperElit and Swe U18). Boot him up a league and he struggled. He's still a 16-year old at this point going against men in the SHL, the production might be predictable to come by.

Year	Team	League	Games	G	A	P	PPG	Plus/Minus
2017	Lulea HF	SHL	42	6	9	15	0.357143	7
	Swe U20(all)	Inter-jr	14	3	3	6	0.428571	6
	Sweden	International	4	0	0	0	0	0
Playoffs	Lulea HF J20		6	0	5	5	0.833333	4
	Lulea HF		3	0	0	0	0	-3

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

A second year into the SHL and Isac's offense has risen some. Remember, he's a 17-year old at this point. Still timid to shoot, but a +7 indicates he defense might be good since he isn't scoring often. When bumped up from U18 to U20 on international-jr play, Isac's scoring took a little hit, again, facing more talented competition. But when he played down in the SuperElit J20 team in the playoffs, his scoring once again took off.

We can surmise that his defense is too good at the lower levels, but his offense is still catching up. He's not a goal scorer by any means, but that playmaking ability is slowly developing at higher league levels. These were all written or said about him before the draft. He's the most ready NHL prospect due to his defense, but he's not playing on North American ice.

Drafted in 2018
Year	Team	League	Games	G	A	P	PPG	Plus/Minus
2018	Anaheim	NHL	15	0	2	2	0.133333	-1
	San Diego	AHL	12	0	6	6	0.5	-6
	Lulea HF	SHL	17	2	7	9	0.529412	5
	Swe U20(all)	Inter-jr	10	2	3	5	0.5	2
	Sweden	International	4	2	1	3	0.75	5
Playoffs	Lulea HF		10	2	6	8	0.8	3
	San Diego		7	1	2	3	0.428571	-2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Isac was Mr. Everywhere man in 2018. He was in the SHL before the draft, in Anaheim to start the NHL as an 18-year old, sent down to the AHL after 15 games, play in some international games, went across the pond back to the SHL, and then came back to North America to finish out his season in the AHL playoffs.

In the NHL, Isac meagerly generated offense, but was trusted on defense under Randy Carlyle. As expected, the offensive production did improve when he was sent down to the AHL, a lower league. When on loan back across the pond, it took some time for Lundestrom to become reacquainted again with his SHL team. You can see his offense begin to tick up on the regular season and improve into the playoffs along with better Plus/Minus ratings. On his way back to North America after his season was over with the SHL, Isac's offense struggled again.

His progression on NA ice wasn't impeded, but rather took a huge step backwards by being promoted to the NHL too soon. And once he crossed that 10-game threshold, Anaheim started his ELC as an 18-year old. The Ducks couldn't slide his contract any longer, to which Isac couldn't be stashed in the SHL for a couple of seasons.

Year	Team	League	Games	G	A	P	PPG	Plus/Minus
2019	Anaheim	NHL	15	0	4	4	0.266667	-2
	San Diego	AHL	43	6	15	21	0.488372	-6

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Isac's offense in the NHL went from near non-existent to a pittance. His AHL game also dropped a bit from his 2018 season.

Impede means to stop. Isac's development didn't just stop, but it also regressed once he was forced to start at the NHL as an 18-year old. Instead of being up for 9 games to get a feel for the NHL, the organization crossed that 10-game threshold. Sure, the Ducks could have have continued to loan Isac to his SHL club in 2019-20, but they didn't.

You cannot be content with a 0.133 offensive production in his rookie year in the AHL. Is going from 0.1333 to 0.2666 a great development improvement, at the cost of his defensive play regressing?

Anaheim jumped the gun on Isac and part of that factor was the mass injury hits at the center position. Isac's defensive prowess kept him up longer than any other prospect on the team save Comtois. And the only reason Comtois didn't play past 10 NHL games was because he got injured. Comtois was a 19-year old in 2018 and the Ducks did start his ELC on that 10th game, but did not make him eligible for the Seattle Expansion Draft.

Steel, Jones, Terry, Larsson, and Guhle are two years older than Lundestrom. Comtois is a year older than Lundestrom. Isac should have stayed across the pond for two years to develop over there and come over here as a more finished product rather than still struggled in year 2. Coming into the 2020-21 season, Lundestrom will start the hockey season as a 20-year old.

Now, for all the people who clamor that Zegras shouldn't stay in BU because there would be no talent there next season, then why couldn't that converse logic apply to Lundestrom? He was in a far better situation in the SHL than he was here in North America.

 

[Sojourn]

Small thing: Impede means to hinder. Not just stop. If you slow someone down, you’re still impeding their progress. You’re delaying them from arriving at their destination. That’s impeding them.

 

[duxfan1101]

EDIT: Looks like it wasn't even Tracey who made the play

 

[Kalv]

I think Tracey was the receiver of that pass, no? #14

 

[duxfan1101]

I think Tracey was the receiver of that pass, no? #14

Yes, he was the one who faked the lacrosse shot behind the net, too.

 

[Kalv]

Yes, he was the one who faked the lacrosse shot behind the net, too.

To me it looked like Tracey was the 3d one, who barely touched tge puck

 

[duxfan1101]

To me it looked like Tracey was the 3d one, who barely touched tge puck

Wow, good eye. I think you're right. Oh well

 

[JabbaJabba]

Lukas Dostal got awarded the best goalie of the season. Not a surprise but a great way to (likely) end his career in Finnish elite league.