dracom
Registered User
wait is Bob actually in scouting in Europe during this mess? don't hire scouts to do that for you? christ this franchise is becoming a joke
GDT: Ducks @ Flyers - 10 AM PT, 7 PM CET
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Anaheim4ever
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2017
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Madden scouting some NA talent maybe.
Imagine the drama this whole situation with the Ducks would be like if this was the Maple Leafs or Habs.
I'd rather Bob was in Europe doing scouting than sitting put in Anaheim watching the travesty unfold before his eyes. There's no helping this team this season, people need to accept this. Carlyle, canned or not, has damaged the team so much that it's going to be a rocky transition out of the mess he's created within the player's minds and on-ice habits. This season is not competitive even if you make the playoffs through some miracle, and no move Bob could make right now would change that.
Ergo, go for the future. That's the best we can do right now.
Ergo, go for the future. That's the best we can do right now.
dracom
Registered User
You're in denial if you think Montour or Manson are going to get a top 10 pick. Why would any team in the bottom 10, all if which are teams rebuilding with the one exception of Florida who should be better, trade their potential lottery pick for a 24 year old D who's highest point total is 9 goals and 32 points? Or a 27 year old defensemen with a point total of 7 goals and 37 points? Look at how often top 10 lottery picks are traded and you'll see they are not traded for guys like Montour or Manson especially when they have the worst seasons of their careers.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
Who would give a top 10 pick for those guys? Would you? I don’t think that’s a reasonable expectation for either of them.
- Jul 25, 2012
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idk that BM does that much "scouting"... pretty sure its madden and the boys. Id guess hes more looking at potential free agents that he can sign rather than draft.
dracom
Registered User
Why? Would any team give up a top 10 pick for a guy with one more year of control at 24 who hasn't shown incredible offensive play? Why would a team give up a top 10 pick for a 27 year old D who doesn't have a lot of offensive upside? They are good players under the right system, but teams don't give up potential lottery picks for them. I challenge you to find a team that has moved a top 10 lottery pick for someone like Manson or Montour (especially in their worst seasons in their careers).
To put it in perspective, would you trade our pick for someone like Jared Spurgeon or Nate Schmidt? Both have similar production as Manson and similar age, but I wouldn't move our 1st for that.
1) Montour is an RFA after that year, so saying one year of control is not true.
2) Manson, while having a bad year like all of them, is a proven top four dman. You want to use offensive upside to lower the value of a dman who just showed his offensive upside last season?
3) Both players are more than what they are this year. They all are. They shouldn't be scouted without context.
4) want to know why you cant find deals like this going down? Because teams don't want to trade mid 20's top four dmen for top 10 picks. Why would they? I can just as easily say you hardly ever see elite centers traded for top 10 picks because....nobody wants to trade those either.
Edmonton, Colorado, Florida, and New Jersey are not rebuilding. All of them need top four dmen more than another prospect.
ShadowDuck
Captain Anaheim
Who cares if Bob is overseas? He knows what's happening, they have the internet wherever he is.
dracom
Registered User
Fair points. Edmonton has no cap space, I don't think they are going to want to take on Montour's new contract in a year or Manson's current deal; they should value those cheap contracts just as much as we do. The other three has cap space, but a few have some big contracts to re-sign within the next couple of years. Not sure they would want to take on Montour's potential new deal or Manson's current deal which would end when he's 30 (3 years in exchange for a top 10 guy with years of team control?, i don't know about that). I know guys like Manson and Montour are good top 4 defensmen, but I don't see a team valuing a top 4 D the same as a top 10 pick. The potential impact a player in the top 10 could cause for the team for their cheap contract is huge for any team. Manson has more value than Montour since he's proven more and is a bit of rarity, but I think his age affects his value when it comes to teams trading their top 10 lottery pick for them.
I brought up their current seasons since I would imagine GMs do use current season performance in trade negotiations. Wouldn't be during your job if you weren't trying to get the lowest offer possible.
It's both, teams don't trade mids 20 top 4 D for picks, and teams don't trade top 10 picks. I think it's unfair to compare a top 4 D to an elite center in this scenario...what's easier to come by? a 40 point top 4 D or an elite center?
25th anniversary homestand and our cup winning coach. No way Murray has the balls to fire Home before that
Yes I’m hoping that’s seen as a challenge haha
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I spent the morning at the zoo, watching monkeys shit on the ground from 20 feet in the air. And yet, I know I made the right choice.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
I fundamentally disagree that teams want a 3/4 D for a top 10 pick. You want a top line/top pairing D at that level. And while Manson and Montour have both played with Lindholm, I don’t see either as legitimate #2’s.
Paul4587
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2006
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I swear this team went from bad to completely horrific overnight the second Cogs was dealt. I think seeing someone that works his ass off the way he does being dealt broke this teams spirit completely.
Here’s a fun stat: +\- for our dmen that hve averaged 15+ minutes per game since New Year’s Day (I know it’s a horrible stat but it’s pretty telling in this case):
Fowler 14 GP -17
Manson 15 GP -14
Montour 15 GP -9
Lindholm 15GP -6
Del Zotto 6GP -6
Holzer 2GP even
Our D is completely broken mentally. You can see it in their body language every time they are on the ice for a goal against.
Here’s a fun stat: +\- for our dmen that hve averaged 15+ minutes per game since New Year’s Day (I know it’s a horrible stat but it’s pretty telling in this case):
Fowler 14 GP -17
Manson 15 GP -14
Montour 15 GP -9
Lindholm 15GP -6
Del Zotto 6GP -6
Holzer 2GP even
Our D is completely broken mentally. You can see it in their body language every time they are on the ice for a goal against.
Depending on where you pick you've got a 50% shot at that happening. Not only that, but several of those teams aren't in a position to wait for the development.
Those of us that watched the game saw roughly the same thing.
Did the sports writers follow him overseas to ask him questions after this latest loss?
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
Even though I agree that +/- is generally overrated, I think it has some worthwhile meaning when comparing players on the same team who all play in front of the same goalies and for the same coach/system. That takes a huge chunk of variability out of the stat.
snarktacular
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2005
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They have phones and computers in Anaheim. Why does he need to go to Europe? He can see video of the prospects/FAs. The only possible benefit would be to talk to prospective high-tier UFAs. Let the real scouts go to Europe.
Lyons71
Registered User
There are notable benefits for scouting in person, and since we don't really know anything about they day-to-day function of upper management there is a non-zero chance Murray is a good amateur scout himself and adds to the staff's value as a whole.
Dr Johnny Fever
Eggplant and Teal
I will go out on a limb and say that Bob, with the tank slowly gaining momentum, wants to personally see all of the potential top talent available in the draft. For all the heat he is getting for his "stealth" tank, he wants to be real comfortable with the results of the pick they get.
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