Ducks extended GMBM for another 2 years (until 2021-22)

[Dryish]

Fair enough. I thought you were talking about "trade chips" from the angle of trying to become a cup contender in the next year and a half.

I think from that angle we have even fewer actual trade chips, though?

To be cup final competitive, we'd probably need at least one (and that's hoping that Rakell rekindles his magic) or two 20-30ish scoring forward(s) added without losing too much defensively. To get that we'd realistically need to trade roster players in addition to picks/prospects because we can't fit anyone skilled enough under the cap without maneuvering.

And sure, while we could maybe hypothetically sacrifice some of the prospects for the hope of a good run — say we shop Steel for instance — who do we ship away that is enough to bring back someone good? HF overrates how much GMs are willing to trade for prospects, even touted ones. You don't really get a really good 1st/2nd line player for a package of an acclaimed prospect and a Cogliano. So we're probably back down to Silf. And probably Montour, Manson and Henrique, none of which we could really part with while keeping a cup contending roster together.

... so it all falls flat, really. As far as I can see anyway.

 

[Dryish]

Not true at all. He could return a 1st or at the very least a 2nd.

Oh yeah, certainly, but honestly we're talking about needing top 6 pick good players here. Silf won't return that. And unless we become some kind of a Detroit reborn with a roster of decently good players all developing to be really good together we won't go to win a cup or two with just a decent roster. Not when Winnipegs and Tampas and Torontos of the world exist.

 

[Paul4587]

Also how does Bob envision us getting any actual help on the scoring side that would bring us closer to being competitive? We have a pretty hefty logjam of soon-to-be decent wingers, limited cap space, very few trade chips, and the ever-present Kesler and Perry contracts.

What can you reasonably expect to do with this situation that would make us actually competitive even if Carlyle isn't hitting the breaks on any attempt?

We’ve got loads of depth up front but outside of Getzlaf we have zero elite talent. If Murray wants to fix that then he’s going to have to move one of Lindholm/Fowler/Manson. Which I can’t see being a good idea unless he’s capable of pulling off a Larsson for Hall type heist.

 

[Opak]

One thing I'm incredibly worried about after thinking about this for a while and having read his statements as they were reported: BM is getting dangerously close to severely handicapping our future.

I said ages ago, before the season even started, that the only two ways I could see the next couple of years going were either to try hoping that Perry/Kesler can still recover and produce and go for a hail Mary cup run with the current core right now or accept that the current core isn't a Stanley Cup winning team anymore and start retooling fast so that we can have a potentially cup winning team in five-ish years or so. It seems like we've kind of begrudgingly arrived at the second option, but Bob still seems to insist on trying for the playoffs. Which... isn't really too smart in our situation as far as I can see?

We need a new 1C from somewhere, and, unless our scouts seriously think one of our C prospects can fill that spot competitively, surely the best way to land on one is to try and draft as high as we can. But we don't really have any pieces we could reliably move for a high draft pick. Silf won't bring that, and we won't sacrifice Fowler for that either, so our only choice is to... suck up sucking for a year or two.

And yet we're just not going to do that at all? Instead we're looking for immediate scoring help to get us to a semi-competitive level (which I'm not sure Murray believes we can reliably achieve anyway, judging by his ultimatum-like comments towards the coaching staff).

Why, Murray? Explain this to us, please. Are we still banking on Getzlaf, Perry and Kesler despite your admissions that we're just not a competitor or what is going on here.

First part - IMO this is kind of a contradicting statement, considering that Bob just went on tape saying that he doesn't think this team is a Cup contender. We might be in a playoff position right now, sure, but the only thing I see Bob insisting is the transformation of how this team should play (along with a better showing from our coaching staff). In fact, in one of the Helene Elliott tweets, Bob himself admitted that he has to give the team time to figure out "some things".

From what he's saying right now, I don't get the vibe that he's particularly desperate to have instant success. His intention is to build a modern-style top tier team, sure, but I think he's willing to be patient about that. He said that scoring is an issue, but is it something that Bob is going to resolve this season (IMO that's a maybe at best)? And as the ownership just gave him a vote of confidence via extension, the pressure is somewhat off of Bob's shoulders. I imagine the Samuelis also understand what's up.

Second part - We don't just need a new 1C, we need to re-build the entire center depth. Future 1C, 2C and 3C are all needed, I just hope that at least two of the kids (Steel, Lundeström, Morand, Groulx, Gates, ...) turn into good NHL roster players. Our luck would be unreal if one of them becomes our next 1C, I agree, but it definitely isn't outside the realm of possibility.

We still have some time though. For now, let's hope that a Johansen-esque opportunity presents itself, or that we somehow get a miracle lottery win. I would also not discredit Silfverberg's trade value -- he might not return a 21-year-old blue chip C prospect in a trade, but his playoff reputation and affordable cap hit makes him tremendosly valuable at the TDL. At that price, if we retain and/or absorb an expiring contract, he will be available to even the most cap strapped of contenders, meaning that something good could definitely shake loose.

 

[70sSanO]

I’m fine with this as long as he keeps going after youth. That will tell whether he really wants to develop a modern team or not.

To be honest, Murray has been saddled with some bad contracts, of his own doing, and it is good that he realizes we don’t even have a window much less one that is still open.

This needs to be Carlyles last year and he needs to really do his homework on who the new coach will be.

Murray is pretty ruthless negotiating some contracts, and hopefully he can mitigate the Kesler, Eaves and Perry issues, if Prrry comes back as a healthier non-producer.

John

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

BM says we need scoring and our offense isn’t good enough. Carlyle says he’s not worried about the offense and that we need to win through defense. Sounds like they have very different views on the team.

A few people have said something to this extent and I'm confused because it's the exact same view. You dont say you want to win through defense and win games 2-1 if your offense is good enough. It's just viewed through their own lens, Murray as the guy who adds players and Carlyle the one who manages what he has.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Decent news, but I would like it better if Randy wasn’t here.

I’m surprised some posters are worrying about our future. Hypothetically, I’m sure if we went into full rebuild mode, we could garner some firsts, seconds and thirds from the likes of Fowler, Montour, Henrique, Kase, etc.

I would rather hoard draft picks and pick in every position that do a one-for-one plus extras.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

BM says we need scoring and our offense isn’t good enough. Carlyle says he’s not worried about the offense and that we need to win through defense. Sounds like they have very different views on the team.

Anaheim doesn't defend well and doesnt generate enough quality offense. Both are right

The problem is this is a team with very bad underlying numbers carried by the goalies giving the illusion that they can win this year when in reality it's another early playoff exit in waiting

 

[sunsetsuperhuman]

We’ve got loads of depth up front but outside of Getzlaf we have zero elite talent. If Murray wants to fix that then he’s going to have to move one of Lindholm/Fowler/Manson. Which I can’t see being a good idea unless he’s capable of pulling off a Larsson for Hall type heist.

Hall has been benched recently iirc, I wonder if he'd be available? Ducks and Devils seem to like trading together. He'd be a good get, depending on the price of course.

 

[pbgoalie]

BM has overall done a good job imo. We’ve been a perennial top tier team, have done an amazing job drafting considering our draft positions, and I feel like not too long ago all we had were defensemen in the pipeline.

Now we have a pretty solid group of young forwards, potentially a few very good ones in Steel and Terry, and a good support group of young players. We’ve lost Theo, Vats, and Pettersson and still have an enviable group of young defense prospects.

I’m not convinced BM can finish. And he seems to be too reactive to seeing what good teams do and chasing that rather than building off a long term plan.

We have gone from big a mean, to big slow and stupid, and now to some transition of quicker with some slow and easy to play against....

I’m ok with it, but I’m not convinced it makes us a force to contend with.
BM is a perfect in between er Lots of good but enough concerns to make one wonder

 

[Lupul1990]

Considering that Bob will be almost 68 by the end of his contract, I think it's possible that he will move up in 2022 or maybe even in 2021 after the expansion draft. Or maybe he will be pushed up. In which case, does anyone think that we might already have his successor in our organization? Who could it be? Nonis? McNab? Or will we be looking outside the organization? The last time that we changed a GM when Burke left, it was a promotion within an organization as Murray had been with the team for 3 years and had previous GM experience. That screams Nonis to me as a potential successor to Murray.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

I'm not sure it makes much sense.

When BM re-signed last time he said that they built the team up to that point and deserve the chance to see it through, which was accurate and made sense. However, team needs a re-tool, it's best to try that under a new leadership.

 

[GermanRocket7]

Considering that Bob will be almost 68 by the end of his contract, I think it's possible that he will move up in 2022 or maybe even in 2021 after the expansion draft. Or maybe he will be pushed up. In which case, does anyone think that we might already have his successor in our organization? Who could it be? Nonis? McNab? Or will we be looking outside the organization? The last time that we changed a GM when Burke left, it was a promotion within an organization as Murray had been with the team for 3 years and had previous GM experience. That screams Nonis to me as a potential successor to Murray.

I have a hard time seeing Nonis, or even McNab, as potential GMs in any NHL franchise. Nonis seems to be pretty off, as his tenure with Vancouver showed. He traded for Lolongo, which shows that he is probably more of a wheeler-dealer than BM, but it effectively didn't help him righten the ship in Vancouver whatsoever, as they missed the Playoffs more often than they reached them under his tenure. Furthermore, Nonis never was a real pro player, which seems to be somewhat of a prerequisite for the job. If you look at the most successful GMs in the past few decades, most of them have had rather long-ish NHL careers beforehand.
McNab also doesn't strike me as a potential GM candidate. He never played professionally, nor did he ever ammass to anything as a GM of the Cincinnati Mighty Ducks. He's just fine as a pro scout or as a senior advisor, and his record of being within the organization since its inaugurance in 1993 underlines his personal skills, but I don't see him ever wanting to be in the spotlight.

The only person I see as a fit would be, and don't jump on me for saying that, Scott Niedermayer. He's a Hall-of-Famer, very smart for a former professional athlete, knows the business, now has been with the Ducks' organization for 13 years and already serves as a special advisor to GMBM. To me, it looks as if he's supposed to become the successor to BM once the latter decides to call it quits. The most important question here is: does Scotty want to work as a GM? If the answer to this question is "yes", then I'd say it's pretty plausible to expect him to become our next GM in 2021/2022.

 

[Opak]

I'm not sure it makes much sense.

When BM re-signed last time he said that they built the team up to that point and deserve the chance to see it through, which was accurate and made sense. However, team needs a re-tool, it's best to try that under a new leadership.

Like I said earlier, I believe the 2021 Seattle expansion plays a large role in the decision to extend Bob for a couple of years. The last ED proved to be no joke, makes sense to keep Bob around for another one, as he's been there and done that.

I have a hard time seeing Nonis, or even McNab, as potential GMs in any NHL franchise. Nonis seems to be pretty off, as his tenure with Vancouver showed. He traded for Lolongo, which shows that he is probably more of a wheeler-dealer than BM, but it effectively didn't help him righten the ship in Vancouver whatsoever, as they missed the Playoffs more often than they reached them under his tenure. Furthermore, Nonis never was a real pro player, which seems to be somewhat of a prerequisite for the job. If you look at the most successful GMs in the past few decades, most of them have had rather long-ish NHL careers beforehand.
McNab also doesn't strike me as a potential GM candidate. He never played professionally, nor did he ever ammass to anything as a GM of the Cincinnati Mighty Ducks. He's just fine as a pro scout or as a senior advisor, and his record of being within the organization since its inaugurance in 1993 underlines his personal skills, but I don't see him ever wanting to be in the spotlight.

The only person I see as a fit would be, and don't jump on me for saying that, Scott Niedermayer. He's a Hall-of-Famer, very smart for a former professional athlete, knows the business, now has been with the Ducks' organization for 13 years and already serves as a special advisor to GMBM. To me, it looks as if he's supposed to become the successor to BM once the latter decides to call it quits. The most important question here is: does Scotty want to work as a GM? If the answer to this question is "yes", then I'd say it's pretty plausible to expect him to become our next GM in 2021/2022.

I still believe that Madden will be our next GM.

 

[Frosted Tips]

Speaking of former Ducks players with potential as a GM, Selanne has repeatedly voiced his interest in management after his retirement. In no way am I suggesting him to be Murray's successor, but just throwing it out there. Maybe he'll be taken in at some point to learn, but at the moment it still looks like Selanne is enjoying his retirement as is.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Speaking of former Ducks players with potential as a GM, Selanne has repeatedly voiced his interest in management after his retirement. In no way am I suggesting him to be Murray's successor, but just throwing it out there. Maybe he'll be taken in at some point to learn, but at the moment it still looks like Selanne is enjoying his retirement as is.

As long as its not like how Michael Jordan is with the Charlotte Hornets in the NBA Michael Jordan may be greatest player, but he's the worst owner Michael Jordan may be a HOFer but he's a terrible talent evaluator. Or when Wayne Gretzky was coach of the Phoenix Coyotes.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

Like I said earlier, I believe the 2021 Seattle expansion plays a large role in the decision to extend Bob for a couple of years. The last ED proved to be no joke, makes sense to keep Bob around for another one, as he's been there and done that.




I still believe that Madden will be our next GM.

I hope so, part of promoting him to GM is it also stops rival teams from poaching Madden into being their GM. They can't let a rival team get a guy who can turn around their franchise with quality drafts.

 

[Gliff]

Being a former player does not mean they will be good managers. Look at previous examples and you will see that the only ones who have been successful are the ones that truly made it their second career and spend like a decade in an assistant/scout role. They are not good because they were players, they are good because they god mentored from really good management guys. And even then, a lot of them suck.

Madden is an amazing amateur scout but none of us know how good he is at everything else.

This is why I like what we have.
Madden as the amateur guy.
McNab racking up killer RFA deals.
Bob at the top.

 

[Terry Yake]

madden should absolutely be the next GM

hard pass on nonis and no disrespect to mcnab but madden has proven that he's as good of a talent evaluator as it gets

 

[Paul4587]

I think there’s a massive difference between being a good talent evaluator as an amateur scout compared with at the professional level. Not to mention all the other responsibilities GMs have. So I’m not sold on Madden at all.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Almost 12 seasons as a "contender" with Murray, no cups, not a single trips to the finals, questionable moves, questionable signings.
I think you guys can do better than this, that is.... if you want go forward as a franchise.
- not enough balls to change things, rather wants things to remain as they are/were -

12 season stagnation when the league has changed so much.

 

[70sSanO]

As a GM, Bob has been better than most with the exception of his pre-conceived notions of a veteran player regardless of the current reality of that player. And he can be like someone who just can’t pass up a bargain at Goodwill.

He seems to have learned from his Getzlaf, Perry, and Kesler contracts and is more cautious going forward. It would have been interesting to see how he would have handled the Nylander situation.

John

 

[Getzmonster]

Almost 12 seasons as a "contender" with Murray, no cups, not a single trips to the finals, questionable moves, questionable signings.
I think you guys can do better than this, that is.... if you want go forward as a franchise.
- not enough balls to change things, rather wants things to remain as they are/were -

12 season stagnation when the league has changed so much.

I would argue the opposite. Stagnation is not what comes to mind when I think of Murray, one of, if not the most active GM's in the league during his tenure. The problem is that he hasn't really settled on an identity and stuck with it, building on the team's strengths. He's somewhat been a step behind trying to emulate the other teams like LA and Chicago, and now last season's Sharks (or Preds, or whatever new "fast young" teams are succeeding in this version of the league). There are only so many ways to reinvent the wheel when your entire tenure has mirrored the careers of Getzlaf and Perry, the two superstar players that drive the franchise bus. They are big, slow, cycle players when it comes down to it, and that's the real identity of this team. Big, mean, mix of skill. I don't even know wtf they are now, or what they're good at. I think it's back to becoming young, skilled, and scoring by committee similar to when Brucie Boy first arrived and we had Getz/Saku/Bonino/Perreault down the middle and rolling four lines. He's reshuffled the supporting cast almost incessantly, and the team has consistently been strong, but I agree they are always that one piece away from having the edge they need to go all the way. Bad luck with injuries can't be overlooked, though, there have been a couple teams that would have made the Finals if not for that (yes, all teams get injuries, but the Ducks are on another level with that crap).

 

[mightyquack]

Almost 12 seasons as a "contender" with Murray, no cups, not a single trips to the finals, questionable moves, questionable signings.
I think you guys can do better than this, that is.... if you want go forward as a franchise.
- not enough balls to change things, rather wants things to remain as they are/were -

12 season stagnation when the league has changed so much.

As much as I'm open to moving on from BM, Anaheim is in a far, far, far better position now then they were when BM took over. This team is in a position to actually be a good team for a long time - they have all the pieces apart from a top young center (but even then they still have promisng centers - just not 1c quality), while when BM took over it looked far more likely Anaheim was heading for the toilet once our veterans retired as the team had next to nothing when it come to prospects. 12 seasons of stagnation is just a laughably bad take.

Also 12 seasons as a contender? This team has been a contender for maybe 3 seasons max (2014/15. 2015/16, 2016/17), they sure as shit weren't in a position to be a contender before that.

 

[Sean Garrity]

On BM being "content" with only making the playoffs, I think that that is probably his main job as the GM of this franchise. I'm not sure that he could convince the Samueli's to go full rebuild with our fickle and non-traditional market in beautiful Southern California. If you looked the situation with the big 3 contracts, a time like now was inevitable. I actually would've preferred he went more "all-in" a couple of years ago and dealt some more assets. At this point, we've stockpiled quality defensive prospects that are ready for their shot, and the quality forward prospects are probably 1-2 years away.

They have an elite goaltender, a modern defense, and he's trying to inject youth, speed, and skill on the wing, but as someone else mentioned when your best players don't play that type of game that becomes extra challenging. My biggest concern is Carlyle, but not him specifically per se. If you want to completely change your style and system, why not hire a coach that already has experience running whatever style and system you're looking for as opposed to banking on an old dog to learn new tricks? I'm not going to pretend to know the intricacies of NHL systems, so my thought process might be completely off base though. I just know that to me it looks like the players and the coach are trying to figure it out on the fly.

Overall, I think this was the right move.