Ducks-Blues game postponed for medical emergency involving Jay Bouwmeester

[Satire]

You really really need to stop. I have no idea what your background is, but even if you have medical experience you have not seen the patient nor have you been given any information or test results. You saw what we saw.... a man collapse on a bench.

Stop playing internet doctor. Seriously. Stop it.

You do have no idea what my background is and that's okay. An internet doctor implies someone uneducated tries to weigh in on a situation- suffice to say I can assure you that's not the case. That doesn't mean I am right at all either though. I'm merely giving my opinion on the situation. We won't know until we're giving more information either way. What sucks is there is a real human being here at the end of this all.

There's been information out shortly after his collapse that he required the AED and had a cardiac arrest. That alone is a ton of information and likely limits what most likely happened to a handful of possibilities. Hs and Ts.

But I digress. I am sorry that my opinion written on a message board offended you this much.

 

[KingBran]

Looks like it was just an ear infection to me. You can see the exact moment the infection took his equilibrium. Tragic the doc's at ice level misdiagnosed and gave him paddles.

 

[Number8]

So, from these pages, we have possible:
Heart attack
Irregular heartbeat
Ventricular tachycardia
Ventricular fibrillation
Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy
Dehydration
Anxiety
Trauma

Did I miss anything from the docs at HFMed?

Oh there will be more. Lots of Doogie Houser MD HFérs are working hard. Turning over stones.

I've been criticized for calling out our remote doctors for speculating on this unfortunate situation. At first I was concerned for the player and the person and thought this sort of speculation to be less than helpful or respectful, but now I now seen the light as to the important of mobilizing the medical, if remote, experts on HF. And as a result, I myself have come up with a hot theory. A hot zone theory if you will.

Right now my computer is in the middle of an intensive Google project. Probably too sophisticated and technical for most, but I have opened up the Web site Google on my computer machine and I have entered the phrase: "does Jay Bouwmeester own a Chinese Pangolin?". My machine is Googling right now, as we speak. However, if my medical senses and heightened awareness of recent global health issues is right, I may be on to something. I'll let you know stat. Which is med speak for very quickly.

Rest assured, I'll be sure to pass on my findings to the medical experts on the Blues team. I'm sure they can use some HF help.

 

[Chardo]

Coronavirus is some serious sh**

 

[Number8]

You do have no idea what my background is and that's okay. An internet doctor implies someone uneducated tries to weigh in on a situation- suffice to say I can assure you that's not the case. That doesn't mean I am right at all either though. I'm merely giving my opinion on the situation. We won't know until we're giving more information either way. What sucks is there is a real human being here at the end of this all.

There's been information out shortly after his collapse that he required the AED and had a cardiac arrest. That alone is a ton of information and likely limits what most likely happened to a handful of possibilities. Hs and Ts.

But I digress. I am sorry that my opinion written on a message board offended you this much.

Thank you for underscoring EXACTLY my point. A real human being who is in at least some distress. Since none of us have anything close to the information necessary to make an effective diagnosis -- the effort is just speculation. Speculation about a human being about whom's condition we know next to nothing And, speculation of that sort is something that inevitably leads to at least the possibility of a series of "I read......" falsehoods.

I think it's disrespectful and unhelpful.

 

[ohcomeonref]

Oh there will be more. Lots of Doogie Houser MD HFérs are working hard. Turning over stones.

I've been criticized for calling out our remote doctors for speculating on this unfortunate situation. At first I was concerned for the player and the person and thought this sort of speculation to be less than helpful or respectful, but now I now seen the light as to the important of mobilizing the medical, if remote, experts on HF. And as a result, I myself have come up with a hot theory. A hot zone theory if you will.

Right now my computer is in the middle of an intensive Google project. Probably too sophisticated and technical for most, but I have opened up the Web site Google on my computer machine and I have entered the phrase: "does Jay Bouwmeester own a Chinese Pangolin?". My machine is Googling right now, as we speak. However, if my medical senses and heightened awareness of recent global health issues is right, I may be on to something. I'll let you know stat. Which is med speak for very quickly.

Rest assured, I'll be sure to pass on my findings to the medical experts on the Blues team. I'm sure they can use some HF help.

Why are you so upset that people are speculating? It's very strange.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Armstrong will be giving an update this afternoon.

 

[kladorf2005]

Hoping Jay makes a full recovery.

People ITT need to stop arguing. If someone wants to offer an opinion you don't agree with, ignore them. Use your ignore button.

Again, the hockey world is united with JBo right now. We're all rooting for you

 

[Analyst365]

Not to be that person ... but anyone else find the the level of shock and the cancelling of the game a bit much? There are trained medical professionals right there.

When this happens in the mall they don't even close the stores.

 

[Satire]

While possible that it could be Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy, JBo is a career ironman, has been reported into countless physical exams over his career. Obviously he has had EKGs and probably an echo done in the past just by being an athlete and if "irregular heartbeat" was reported in his career before, likely a conduction problem instead of a structural problem like HOCM. Would probably have had symptoms of fatigue with exertion long before this event if it was HOCM. EKG changes more consistent with HOCM would have been reported during his annual physicals. Also HOCM generally presents earlier in an athlete's career than 36.

Just my two cents, I'd go with conduction abnormality over HOCM. Still, we won't know until the results come out.

Fair point - I didn't realize he had a history of irregular heartbeat in the past. We really won't know until the tests are done I guess. Side note: I've seen some pretty weird stuff with HOCM/HCM in the past with how it presents, particularly on an ECG. A lot of the Q wave changes often don't seem to be immediately present or can be masked prior to a serious event. An echo should have definitely caught it if he has that issue if he had one though. Interestingly enough there is a pretty strong association between Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome and HCM as well. Sometimes the delta waves actually can mask some of the HCM ECG changes.

Anyways, apparently discussing these things is frowned upon in this thread. I shall see my exit from here so I don't anger anyone else. Thanks for the discussion and the additional information.

Regardless of what happened to him, my thoughts go out to him and his family. No one that young should have to deal with that. I'm glad it happened where medical staff was present and could act quick on it.

 

[KingBran]

Not to be that person ... but anyone else find the the level of shock and the cancelling of the game a bit much? There are trained medical professionals right there.

When this happens in the mall they don't even close the stores.

Yeah lets keep playing a game when our friend who looks like he just died got paddles and stretchered off.

When this happens in a mall not everyone in the mall was there to watch the person perform with a group of other individuals. Do you really not see the difference?

 

[Primary Assist]

Not to be that person ...

You're that person

 

[Number8]

Fair point - I didn't realize he had a history of irregular heartbeat in the past. We really won't know until the tests are done I guess. Side note: I've seen some pretty weird stuff with HOCM/HCM in the past with how it presents, particularly on an ECG. A lot of the Q wave changes often don't seem to be immediately present or can be masked prior to a serious event. An echo should have definitely caught it if he has that issue if he had one though. Interestingly enough there is a pretty strong association between Wolff-Parkinson-White syndrome and HCM as well. Sometimes the delta waves actually can mask some of the HCM ECG changes.

Anyways, apparently discussing these things is frowned upon in this thread. I shall see my exit from here so I don't anger anyone else. Thanks for the discussion and the additional information.

Regardless of what happened to him, my thoughts go out to him and his family. No one that young should have to deal with that. I'm glad it happened where medical staff was present and could act quick on it.

And here we have it.... why speculating about something as serious as this appears to be can be dangerous.

Where have you learned that Jay Bouwmeester has been previously diagnosed with an irregular heartbeat? I don't believe he has.

If I'm wrong, I will be happy to say so. I hope you will be similarly humble, if not. And, if that is indeed the case, will submit that there is at least some merit to criticisms of the risks of diagnosing and discussing someone's medical condition without first hand facts.

 

[Satire]

With all due respect, you know essentially nothing about what happened or the person it happened to. Nothing. You have no medical history, you have no familial history, you have no blood work, you have no imaging, you have no enzyme levels, you have no toxicology, no vitals, nothing. You have a video of a guy collapsing and an assumption about EXACTLY what EMT's may or may not have been doing to the person who collapsed. Not even audio.

And yet the "person I was criticizing" was wondering how JBo deteriorated into one of those rhythms in the first place. A rhythm you or he have no idea he was or is in.

Glad the medicine thing is so easy. God forbid any of you have a heart event. Make sure you keep a video handy though, you can just send a gif to your doctor and they'll diagnose and fix you up virtually.


Yes this is a message board. And yes, you can guess. But why? So someone can be the first to "make the "call". I diagnosed it right, I diagnosed it right.....This place........

I'm sorry but the information he is providing is very relevant. He can know a lot simply by knowing they used a defibrillator. There are only a small amount of rhythms that respond to defibrillation vs a more complex monitor that can do synchronized cardioversion.

You're the one that doesn't know what you're talking about dude. Back off and stop questioning what educated people are telling you because YOU don't understand the situation or the response to it.

 

[Number8]

I'm sorry but the information he is providing is very relevant. He can know a lot simply by knowing they used a defibrillator. There are only a small amount of rhythms that respond to defibrillation vs a more complex monitor that can do synchronized cardioversion.

You're the one that doesn't know what you're talking about dude. Back off and stop questioning what educated people are telling you because YOU don't understand the situation or the response to it.

Waiting for your documentation of prior reporting of irregular heartbeat for Bouwmeester. For the record, I don't think you have it.

But you're educated and all and willing to tell me things, so I'm patiently but enthusiastically waiting for you to deliver the goods. I'm sure you won't let me down.

 

[Paradise Circus]

Why are you so upset that people are speculating? It's very strange.

x2

 

[Satire]

And here we have it.... why speculating about something as serious as this appears to be can be dangerous.

Where have you learned that Jay Bouwmeester has been previously diagnosed with an irregular heartbeat? I don't believe he has.

If I'm wrong, I will be happy to say so. I hope you will be similarly humble, if not. And, if that is indeed the case, will submit that there is at least some merit to criticisms of the risks of diagnosing and discussing someone's medical condition without first hand facts.

I'm assuming he found it mentioned in the numerous articles put out after the incident like this one:

Ducks game postponed after Blues' Jay Bouwmeester suffers cardiac episode

I look forward to your "happy" response.

[Edit] This article DOES not state there was a previously diagnosed irregular heartbeat noted. The spacing in paragraphs can make it seem so on a quick review. My mistake. I did not claim he had this issue initially and was trying to find support for the original poster who claimed this in a brief skim through and obviously failed. Feel free to read other replies for follow up on this conversation thread. I have left the initial response up as it was my mistake and the future replies won't make sense without the context here.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Thank you for underscoring EXACTLY my point. A real human being who is in at least some distress. Since none of us have anything close to the information necessary to make an effective diagnosis -- the effort is just speculation. Speculation about a human being about whom's condition we know next to nothing And, speculation of that sort is something that inevitably leads to at least the possibility of a series of "I read......" falsehoods.

I think it's disrespectful and unhelpful.

Then leave? Nobody is forcing you to partake in this discussion. This is a message board where people speculate all the time. Not sure what your big hang up is.

 

[kladorf2005]

I'm assuming he found it mentioned in the numerous articles put out after the incident like this one:

Ducks game postponed after Blues' Jay Bouwmeester suffers cardiac episode

I look forward to your "happy" response.

That's referencing Rich Peverley.

The incident was reminiscent of a situation in 2014 involving Rich Peverley of the Dallas Stars.
He collapsed on his team’s bench and had to be revived after he went into cardiac arrest. He had previously been diagnosed with an irregular heartbeat.

JBo has no reported history of an irregular heartbeat

 

[Number8]

I'm assuming he found it mentioned in the numerous articles put out after the incident like this one:

Ducks game postponed after Blues' Jay Bouwmeester suffers cardiac episode

I look forward to your "happy" response.

I can "happily" report that your reading comprehension is poor, at best. Go read the article again -- completely this time. They are talking about Rich Peverley....

Come back when you're ready to admit you a wrong and made a baseless claim.

"The incident was reminiscent of a situation in 2014 involving Rich Peverley of the Dallas Stars.
He collapsed on his team’s bench and had to be revived after he went into cardiac arrest. He had previously been diagnosed with an irregular heartbeat."

I'll now await your "humble" response. Dude.

 

[sh724]

I'm assuming he found it mentioned in the numerous articles put out after the incident like this one:

Ducks game postponed after Blues' Jay Bouwmeester suffers cardiac episode

I look forward to your "happy" response.

You should probably reread the article...

"The incident was reminiscent of a situation in 2014 involving Rich Peverley of the Dallas Stars.
He collapsed on his team’s bench and had to be revived after he went into cardiac arrest. He had previously been diagnosed with an irregular heartbeat."

Says nothing about Jbo having an irregular heart beat

 

[Number8]

That's referencing Rich Peverley.



JBo has no reported history of an irregular heartbeat

Hope Dr. Satire has his medical malpractice insurance paid up. Some sloppy work this morning.

 

[swiftwin]

In my book, writing out long diatribes about different medical conditions and the relative impact on a given persons life and career is a dick move considering the player just collapsed on the bench, they stretchered him off, and then abruptly cancelled the game. That doesn't happen every day and having some internet jockey use it as a means of trying to show his diverse knowledge of cardiac disease (despite likely never seeing JBo in person and certainly not since the incident) is off base.

That's just my opinion though. And as you say, this is a message board where probably more than 90% of what we do is opinion. So I'm on solid ground.

If he was a commentator on TV, then yeah, sure, maybe it's a dick move.

But it's a message board. J-Bo isn't reading this site. It's interesting and comforting to hear the perspective from people more knowledgeable on the subject than I am. This event was highly unusual, even by hockey cardiac event standards. Most of the time it's a younger player with some undiagnosed abnormality, not a 36yr old iron man. I bet lots of people are asking themselves "could this happen to me?".

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Plenty of people with medical experience here, and it’s the JBo dropped thread and is thank god seemingly ok thread so it’s completely ok to talk about it. There’s a video that shows them doing compressions and it’s being said he was shocked so a lot of what’s being said isn’t as speculative as you think. There’s only so many arrhythmia’s that get electricity, and he being a young athlete can potentially narrow down the initial cause. If an AED shocked him it was ventricular tachycardia (vtach) or ventricular fibrillation (vfib) as those are the two arrhythmia AED’s shock. They both mean the heart still has electrical activity but it is disorganized so the heart is quivering instead of pumping and resetting it through electricity is the hopeful correction. These are both lethal if not immediately corrected.

If it was a paramedic or a doctor looking at a rhythm on a monitor and deciding to give electricity through a couple of different ways it could’ve been either of the above, or atrial fibrillation (afib) with rapid ventricular response (fast afib) or Supra ventricular tachycardia (SVT) which can both potentially be treated with meds and procedures. These seem unlikely given presumably skilled folks decided he needed CPR, which is rare with these rhythms. Atrial Flutter is also a shockable rhythm that an AED would not shock. It’s strongly likely to be one if the first two. What the person you’re criticizing is saying is wondering how JBo deteriorated to one of these rhythms in the first place.

Where does it say he was shocked? I can’t find reliable information. I watched all the footage, as I was watching the Blues’ feed, but about all I can confidently say is that he collapsed suddenly and that they put up a curtain and were working on him at the bench.

Pang said they had an AED “close by”, but it wasn’t clear if he meant they’d used it or just got it out. I’ve seen references to folks in the arena saying they used an AED but can’t find those accounts first hand. It’s possible the staff applied the paddles and assessed his rhythm, but didn’t deliver a shock. For an observer across the arena, it would be hard to know exactly what was done.

I think they resumed the game in Dallas when Peverley was resuscitated on the bench. I hadn’t thought about it as much at the time, but it would have been so inappropriate to do that last night. I think the situations are similar enough that I take this as the NHL acknowledging that got it wrong last time.

 

[Number8]

Anyway, I'm done debating diagnosing patients based on a video clip. I think, given the fact that Bouwmeester suffered a serious incident, that it's dangerous and disrespectful.

Dr. Satire has an apology to make -- in the course of his online diagnosing that some seem to think he is ok doing, he made an erroneous statement that JB has previously been diagnosed with an irregular heartbeat. I do not believe that is the case, and it underscores why this sort of speculation without facts can lead to misstatements and rumors.

We'll see if he corrects the record. I'm 50/50 on whether he has the gravitas to do it. We'll see.

Regardless, I hope Jay Bouwmeester has a very very speedy recovery. THAT is what is important.