Value of: Duchene vs RNH

[Halla]

Duchene >> RNH

He had a miserable season on an awful team
his ceiling is still 65-70pt #1C though whereas RNH is probably 55pt #2C

 

[Kcb12345]

Potential?
1. He's older than RNH
2. He's 26 years old, turning 27 halfway through the year. He is now he is at this point, don't sell "potential" for a player his age.

Duchene on a better team has a lot more potential, yes. RNH seems to have hit his ceiling and definitely not lived up to expectations while Duchene is the more explosive player and still has the potential for huge seasons. I think RNH would be lucky to crack 50+ points for the rest of his career. Yes a 2nd/3rd line center, Duchene is a 1st line center. Clear-cut difference between the two in terms of value.

 

[Connor]

Duchene played almost 40 more minutes on the PP last season than RNH.

I just did the math, if RNH with RNH's scoring rates played the exact same minutes as Duchene last season, RNH would have had 45 points where Duchene had 41.

 

[48g90a138pts]

The value is about the same or RNH is a bit more. For now anyways.

First RNH is cost controlled for two more seasons longer, which I feel is very important. Unless Duchene regresses even more his next contract is going to be the same if not more. The argument that Duchene's terrible year was because he played on a crappy team doesn't hold much water, RNH had been in the same spot and still performed and didn't go asking for a trade. RNH is definitely less of a drama queen and a more professional personality.

You can't argue that RNH is over paid compared to Duchene. As last season goes both got paid the same and both put up near identical stats. So if RNH is overpaid, so is Duchene. Which makes that point null and irrelevant.

Duchene' s 70 point season is 4 years removed. Since then they've been pretty close to equal points wise. Last year Duchene was 1st line centre and 1st line PP. RNH was 2nd line centre and 2nd line PP. Switch RNH to first line and first line PP and he easily out performs Duchene.

 

[Double Dion]

Duchene has more value I think. But I don't hate RNH like some do. I hated Eberle, he was lazy and a guy you lose with. RNH could still develop I think. He was just rushed like all the Oilers players were from that tank job. Hall was the only one of them ready for the NHL.

 

[Riptide]

The value is about the same or RNH is a bit more. For now anyways.

First RNH is cost controlled for two more seasons longer, which I feel is very important. Unless Duchene regresses even more his next contract is going to be the same if not more. The argument that Duchene's terrible year was because he played on a crappy team doesn't hold much water, RNH had been in the same spot and still performed and didn't go asking for a trade. RNH is definitely less of a drama queen and a more professional personality.

You can't argue that RNH is over paid compared to Duchene. As last season goes both got paid the same and both put up near identical stats. So if RNH is overpaid, so is Duchene. Which makes that point null and irrelevant.

First off, I agree completely about the term of RNH's deal. MD's contract is why he hasn't been traded. Carolina or several other teams likely would have been much more willing to part with (or at least close to) what Sakic is looking for had MD had 4 yrs left on his deal vs the 2 he has. Some teams can take the risk that they could resign him... most however (at least those with the assets) likely cannot. Them giving up close to JS's asking price and having him walk would be brutal to their long and mid term well being. RNH however will not have that issue. If he's moved next summer, he'll have 3 years on his deal. Not a ton, but potentially enough for a GM to decide that ponying up whatever his cost is is worth it for the next few seasons.

The Oilers are my favorite Canadian team... but this is BS. RNH hasn't had time to get pissy and demand a trade. He played 4 seasons in Edmonton while everyone knew they were rebuilding - however after that they drafted McDavid. And regardless of what you think of him as a player, it's pretty clear that he's the next Crosby in the league... meaning that Edmonton's chances at really turning things around drastically improved by the time RNH's 5th yr started. Duchene meanwhile was in his 8th season and only went to the playoffs twice (both 1st rd exits), was 26 yrs old and his team is just starting (or in the middle of - take your pick), a rebuild, with no end in sight (at least in the time span of MD's contract). I'm not going to defend him not caring... but it's pretty easy to see that these two players are in very different situations.

Meaning that while there's lots you can say about either player... praising RNH and dumping on MD for not "caring" and how one "sucked it up" while the other didn't, is BS.

Bold 3, sure you can. I like RNH and think he's vastly underrated on here. But unless he magically turns things around, what he is, is a creative offensive middle of the road #2C. Not a bad thing, but something that people struggle to justify spending 6m on (although most would probably be quite happy spending 5m). Duchene on the other hand is a very good #2C, who's an ace in the circle. You can ***** about his contract all you want... but you're *****ing about the term (and specifically how that relates to his trade value), not the AAV.

 

[TorstenFrings]

Duchene is the better player... but RNH has the 4 years of term, thus giving the new team certainty beyond MDs 2 yrs. I think that you're right, when these guys are traded, the values will be fairly similar.

The term could be a positive for some of the potential acquiring teams, mainly CAR. At 6m per it is also an outright negative for EDM though. I don't think on balance it ups the price.

 

[rent free]

Duchess has more value aiec

 

[LieutenantDangle]

The value is about the same or RNH is a bit more. For now anyways.

First RNH is cost controlled for two more seasons longer, which I feel is very important. Unless Duchene regresses even more his next contract is going to be the same if not more. The argument that Duchene's terrible year was because he played on a crappy team doesn't hold much water, RNH had been in the same spot and still performed and didn't go asking for a trade. RNH is definitely less of a drama queen and a more professional personality.

You can't argue that RNH is over paid compared to Duchene. As last season goes both got paid the same and both put up near identical stats. So if RNH is overpaid, so is Duchene. Which makes that point null and irrelevant.

Duchene' s 70 point season is 4 years removed. Since then they've been pretty close to equal points wise. Last year Duchene was 1st line centre and 1st line PP. RNH was 2nd line centre and 2nd line PP. Switch RNH to first line and first line PP and he easily out performs Duchene.

straw man is strong in you, young padawan

 

[Stickpucker]

Duchess has more value aiec

Agreed Duchinko is worth more evens with Russian factor.

 

[LaP]

Right now Duchene. Fall 2018 it will be RNH.

 

[Homesick]

RNH seems like a passive type of player to me. Not nearly as quick as Duchene. And both guys have been playing on **** teams for awhile. 13-14 Avs and last year's Oilers being the outliers.

Duchene at his best was one of Canada's impact players. Only players I saw who matched or exceeded him in the World Cup were Tavares and the Sid line. I don't think RNH has that level in him.

Duchene 6GP 4Pts
RNH 3GP 3Pts

DOMINANT!

Can't understand why Duchene gets a pass for a **** season but a younger RNH is garbage.

 

[Flyerfan52]

In a vacumn after last season the trade value looks it should be the same as both are paid $6 miilion for roughly = stats.
The difference is for RNH it's roughly his norm while for Duchene it's his low point. So in Duchene you get the equal who stands the better chance to exceed TNH than vice versa.
The extra 2 years of Nuge some are using as a plus could actually work as a minus since paying a 2nd line center $6 million x 4 versus paying what you hope is a 1C but falls to #2 allows for re-signing him @ 2C $s that much sooner.

Neither Chia nor Sakic (especially him) will get their asking price but a 2 year gamble on paying a 1/2C those $s for 2 years > paying a 2/3 the same x 4.

 

[chet1926]

Duchene 6GP 4Pts
RNH 3GP 3Pts

DOMINANT!

Can't understand why Duchene gets a pass for a **** season but a younger RNH is garbage.

RNH isn't trash, his value just isn't close to Duchene's value.

RNH's career year is basically equivalent to Duchene's rookie season. Not to mention the fact that Duchene is a better faceoff man and probably the better two way player (this is pretty close IMO).

Even in Duchene's worst year in his entire career, playing for the worst team in 20 years, Duchene still clipped RNH in pts/game. Not to mention RNH played on a team that was a game away from the conference finals.

Duchene doesn't get a pass for a **** season it happened there is no denying it. He does on the other hand get the benefit of the doubt as he has proven over multiple seasons that he is a different player than he showed last season.

RNH is a middle of the road 2C, he has value equivalent to that. Duchene is a lower end 1C, and should have value equivalent to that. There is nothing more to this particular debate.

 

[klozge]

There are lots of things to say against Duchene but he's still a good bit better and more valuable than RNH.

 

[bucks_oil]

Yeah it makes perfect sense when the 24 year old has never had more than 56 points and the 26 year old has multiple 60+ point seasons and a 70 point in 71 game season

0.67 points per game vs 0.73 points per game.

That's the difference between 55 and 60 points on the season.

These guys statistically are not that different. And one is 3 years younger and under contract longer and used in a more defensive role (which perhaps explains offensive production) vs playing in an offensive role and "giving up" on a terrible squad.

It amazes me that the Colorado guys are being defended as immune to the bottom feeding Avs. When our guys (Hall, Ebs, RNH) were leading our team to the bottom they were soundly criticized... but nobody EVER whispered they had quit (which we are hearing out of Col). How does a player who may have "quit" on his org retain any value?

 

[McSuper]

Duchene is better in some ways and RNH is better at other things .

Duchene is faster , much better at FO and has has put up the better season of the 2 players . points wise

RNH is force to play a checking role with Edmonton so his offence has suffer . Also RNH is better defensively .

I think RNH will be traded from Edmonton next season I do think we would get a better return today . Even if he focuses on his offence like T Mac told him in his exit interviews and has a good season I feel teams will lowball Edmonton because they will know they need to move him . I also don't think you pay Draisaitl 8.5 a year to be McDavids wing man . He now needs to drive his own line giving Edmonton options .

Back to Duchene vs RNH . I think these players are close but fans will look at the higher point production of Duchene and not at how RNH was used . Going by value today RNH + A late first , high 2nd should get you the same value as Duchene alone . Of course this could vary from team to team and some may prefer RNH for his defensive player

 

[bucks_oil]

RNH isn't trash, his value just isn't close to Duchene's value.

RNH's career year is basically equivalent to Duchene's rookie season. Not to mention the fact that Duchene is a better faceoff man and probably the better two way player (this is pretty close IMO).

Even in Duchene's worst year in his entire career, playing for the worst team in 20 years, Duchene still clipped RNH in pts/game. Not to mention RNH played on a team that was a game away from the conference finals.

Duchene doesn't get a pass for a **** season it happened there is no denying it. He does on the other hand get the benefit of the doubt as he has proven over multiple seasons that he is a different player than he showed last season.

RNH is a middle of the road 2C, he has value equivalent to that. Duchene is a lower end 1C, and should have value equivalent to that. There is nothing more to this particular debate.

Come on now...

RNH best season is 0.84 ppg (his rookie). That is NOT equivalent to Duchene's rookie season (0.68ppg)... unless you'd like to mention it took RNH 20 fewer games to get to his 50ish points vs Duchene.

These guys scored at as fractionally close to identical rates this year as you can get. 0.01 difference in points per game amounts to 0.82 points over an entire season. That's right... 1 point if we are generous. And it has been well documented that RNH was playing in a shut down role this year... and did well in it.

The career record, and it is substantial enough to draw conclusions says:
1) RNH is a 55 point C... bottom end 1C or top end #2C. (including 3 finishes in the top 30 for C)
2) It depends on which Duchene shows up... the one that cares is a mid-tier 1C. The one that doesn't is a mid-tier #2C.

If Duchene were as good as you think he is, the difference in CAREER PPG would not be 0.06, or 5 points on a season.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Come on now...

RNH best season is 0.84 ppg (his rookie). That is NOT equivalent to Duchene's rookie season (0.68ppg)... unless you'd like to mention it took RNH 20 fewer games to get to his 50ish points vs Duchene.

These guys scored at as fractionally close to identical rates this year as you can get. 0.01 difference in points per game amounts to 0.82 points over an entire season. That's right... 1 point if we are generous. And it has been well documented that RNH was playing in a shut down role this year... and did well in it.

The career record, and it is substantial enough to draw conclusions says:
1) RNH is a 55 point C... bottom end 1C or top end #2C. (including 3 finishes in the top 30 for C)
2) It depends on which Duchene shows up... the one that cares is a mid-tier 1C. The one that doesn't is a mid-tier #2C.

If Duchene were as good as you think he is, the difference in CAREER PPG would not be 0.06, or 5 points on a season.

The difference between the two is how they've scored their points. Duchene has led the Avs in scoring 4 times. He has 5 20+ goal seasons, including his 30 goal season. He also has 2 40+ assist seasons.

Looking at RNH, he's never led the team in scoring, has only scored 20 goals once, and has never had 40 assists in a season.

So, if you want to blame RNH's low totals on the fact that he's only managed to stay healthy enough to play in 71 games per 82 game season, go for it. I'll take the guy who plays in more games, scores more points, and helps his team more.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

The difference between the two is how they've scored their points. Duchene has led the Avs in scoring 4 times. He has 5 20+ goal seasons, including his 30 goal season. He also has 2 40+ assist seasons.

Looking at RNH, he's never led the team in scoring, has only scored 20 goals once, and has never had 40 assists in a season.

So, if you want to blame RNH's low totals on the fact that he's only managed to stay healthy enough to play in 71 games per 82 game season, go for it. I'll take the guy who plays in more games, scores more points, and helps his team more.

Is there any truth to the rumblings that Duchene might not report to training camp if he doesn't get traded?

This would be a stake in the heart for the Avs IMO. For all this 'helps his team' stuff, he absolutely outright quit on his team last year and everyone saw it. Refusing to report would be a dagger.

^^^ my buddy is a massive Avs fan and said he saw this somewhere. I have no idea if there's any truth to it.

 

[Flyerfan52]

0.67 points per game vs 0.73 points per game.

That's the difference between 55 and 60 points on the season.

These guys statistically are not that different. And one is 3 years younger and under contract longer and used in a more defensive role (which perhaps explains offensive production) vs playing in an offensive role and "giving up" on a terrible squad.

It amazes me that the Colorado guys are being defended as immune to the bottom feeding Avs. When our guys (Hall, Ebs, RNH) were leading our team to the bottom they were soundly criticized... but nobody EVER whispered they had quit (which we are hearing out of Col). How does a player who may have "quit" on his org retain any value?

55-60 points over a season can translate to more wins. Now a minimal difference in wins decides which team makes the playoffs & which watches them on TV.
As to "whispers" about Oilers players that were a big help in the run to the bottom fans noticed that when officially eliminated (Feb. or March) the players on Edmonton took heart as they knew they'd be facing backup goalies on teams putting in minimal effort to beat the Oilers. Suddenly alive those players would score in meaningless games to try to prove they were indeed worth something.

 

[HabsDood]

I've always liked RNH.. I'd love him on the Habs..


I'll wait till 3-4 more years before judging though.. Duchene seems soso actually, a good soso.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Is there any truth to the rumblings that Duchene might not report to training camp if he doesn't get traded?

This would be a stake in the heart for the Avs IMO. For all this 'helps his team' stuff, he absolutely outright quit on his team last year and everyone saw it. Refusing to report would be a dagger.

^^^ my buddy is a massive Avs fan and said he saw this somewhere. I have no idea if there's any truth to it.

I don't talk to Duchene, so I have no idea what he's thinking. But, I highly doubt a guy with 2 years left on his contract, who has not made any public demands to be traded, and grew up a fan of the Avs, is going to refuse to report to camp. It's not impossible, but it's pretty unlikely.

EDIT: Also, you are correct that he quit on the team in January, and it was obvious. What you're ignoring is that 90% of the rest of the team quit in November. He didn't quit on a team that was trying to win, he quit on a bunch of guys that had resigned themselves to losing. He still quit, but he was probably the 15th guy to give up trying to push through the suck, not the first.

 

[34]

Duchene is worth 10 RNH. RNH is a scrub.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Is there any truth to the rumblings that Duchene might not report to training camp if he doesn't get traded?

This would be a stake in the heart for the Avs IMO. For all this 'helps his team' stuff, he absolutely outright quit on his team last year and everyone saw it. Refusing to report would be a dagger.

^^^ my buddy is a massive Avs fan and said he saw this somewhere. I have no idea if there's any truth to it.

Dreger speculated that it could happen. As an Avs fan I hope not, that would hurt his value a whole lot more than where it's at right now. And where his value is right now is not exactly very high in my opinion.