Proposal: Duchene to Pittsburgh

[Shady Machine]

I guess you want to ignore the fact that Sakic has publicly stated that he's not looking to make a trade just to make a trade, and that the trade has to make the team better in the long run. Just because a team offers something better than Maatta+ doesn't mean that it would definitely get the job done

It depends on the timeframe of the long run. It's clear to literally everyone that Duchene isn't re-signing in Colorado after being in trade rumors since the deadline.

It's been reported that he wants a young top 4 D. Frankly there aren't many young top 4D available and Maatta is likely one of the better ones. I know many Avs fans don't seem to be a fan of Maatta and I understand why, but this is a quality offer.

Top 4 D + Potential starting goalie + Potential 3C + late 1st

That's the right basis of an offer. We can discuss the additional pieces and the quality of them, but unless you can point out all of the young D available that are better than Maatta, I don't know how else to proceed.

The most logical to me is Hanifin for Duchene, but I could see Francis being concerned about Duchene walking in 2 years if they aren't a contending team by then.

I really don't know what's going to happen, but I can't think of a scenario where a GM held out forever and ended up getting the deal he really wanted. Usually other GM's get frustrated or walk away and demand decline rather than increases. Over time the GM "settles" for a good deal, but one that's less than he demanded.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

It depends on the timeframe of the long run. It's clear to literally everyone that Duchene isn't re-signing in Colorado after being in trade rumors since the deadline.

It's been reported that he wants a young top 4 D. Frankly there aren't many young top 4D available and Maatta is likely one of the better ones. I know many Avs fans don't seem to be a fan of Maatta and I understand why, but this is a quality offer.

Top 4 D + Potential starting goalie + Potential 3C + late 1st

That's the right basis of an offer. We can discuss the additional pieces and the quality of them, but unless you can point out all of the young D available that are better than Maatta, I don't know how else to proceed.

The most logical to me is Hanifin for Duchene, but I could see Francis being concerned about Duchene walking in 2 years if they aren't a contending team by then.

I really don't know what's going to happen, but I can't think of a scenario where a GM held out forever and ended up getting the deal he really wanted. Usually other GM's get frustrated or walk away and demand decline rather than increases. Over time the GM "settles" for a good deal, but one that's less than he demanded.

Apparently I'm not part of "literally everyone", because I understand that a lot could happen in the next 12-18 months that could convince Duchene to stay. Sure, it's possible that he won't sign an extension, but it's far from a foregone conclusion yet.

I'd also point out that Sakic also publicly stated that he's not the one starting the rumors about trading Duchene, which indicates it's not that Sakic is trying to trade Duchene, it's that other teams are trying to acquire Duchene. If other teams don't like the asking price for the guy they want, why should Sakic settle for what they are willing to pay, when he's apparently not really trying to trade Duchene?

Or should we ignore what Sakic has publicly said and keep going with the media's narrative that Sakic is actively trying to trade Duchene?

 

[The Old Master]

Apparently I'm not part of "literally everyone", because I understand that a lot could happen in the next 12-18 months that could convince Duchene to stay. Sure, it's possible that he won't sign an extension, but it's far from a foregone conclusion yet.

I'd also point out that Sakic also publicly stated that he's not the one starting the rumors about trading Duchene, which indicates it's not that Sakic is trying to trade Duchene, it's that other teams are trying to acquire Duchene. If other teams don't like the asking price for the guy they want, why should Sakic settle for what they are willing to pay, when he's apparently not really trying to trade Duchene?

Or should we ignore what Sakic has publicly said and keep going with the media's narrative that Sakic is actively trying to trade Duchene?

never trust a gm......never trust the media.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

never trust a gm......never trust the media.

I don't really trust anyone, except my wife.

Sure, Sakic could be lying, but what's the upside for him to publicly state that he's not starting the rumors about trading Duchene and isn't trying to make trades just to make trades, if it's not true? It's pretty obvious that Sakic isn't trying to play to the media, because he really doesn't care what they say. And, he's the EVP of Hockey Operations, so he's essentially the only guy who can fire GM Joe Sakic, so his job isn't really on the line.

I know the upside for the media to keep pushing the narrative during an otherwise slow period for hockey news. Gotta keep those clicks coming in, otherwise your paycheck takes a hit, right?

So, between one side, with no apparent reason to lie, and the other side, with a financial incentive to stretch the truth to keep people interested, which one is more believable?

 

[McMetal]

I don't really trust anyone, except my wife.

Sure, Sakic could be lying, but what's the upside for him to publicly state that he's not starting the rumors about trading Duchene and isn't trying to make trades just to make trades, if it's not true? It's pretty obvious that Sakic isn't trying to play to the media, because he really doesn't care what they say. And, he's the EVP of Hockey Operations, so he's essentially the only guy who can fire GM Joe Sakic, so his job isn't really on the line.

I know the upside for the media to keep pushing the narrative during an otherwise slow period for hockey news. Gotta keep those clicks coming in, otherwise your paycheck takes a hit, right?

So, between one side, with no apparent reason to lie, and the other side, with a financial incentive to stretch the truth to keep people interested, which one is more believable?

Don't forget taking the vague statements Duchene has made about how he has no control over whether he gets traded or not and he understands that it's a business, phrases so cliche that it's a wonder anybody interviews players under trade speculation when you can just cut and paste what the last guy said, then use those to "prove" that Duchene hates Sakic so much he mails him his morning **** every day.

 

[Riptide]

Apparently I'm not part of "literally everyone", because I understand that a lot could happen in the next 12-18 months that could convince Duchene to stay. Sure, it's possible that he won't sign an extension, but it's far from a foregone conclusion yet.

At this point I wouldn't be holding my breath. That team isn't going to be a contender any time soon and the odds of MD spending the remaining of his prime years on a team that's going nowhere fast is likely slim.

 

[NOTENOUGHJTCGOALS]

Remember Aves fans live in a world where Eric Johnson is a #1 dman and Zadorov is a top pairing defender...

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

At this point I wouldn't be holding my breath. That team isn't going to be a contender any time soon and the odds of MD spending the remaining of his prime years on a team that's going nowhere fast is likely slim.

At this point, I wouldn't say anything definitive about the future of the team. There are 12 players who played at least 27 games for the Avs last year who are no longer on the team. The team's best G, best D and best LHD will hopefully be healthy after missing 25+ games each last season. There are a bunch of youngsters who look like they'll get a real shot to make the team, to go along with a bunch of youngsters who joined the team last year. If everyone can stay healthy, and some of the new guys and youngsters step up and contribute, who knows what could happen.

 

[Spilot23]

Remember Aves fans live in a world where Eric Johnson is a #1 dman and Zadorov is a top pairing defender...

This guy must be the biggest Avs hater I've seen in this board Yeah Johnson is a top pairing for our team, I don't think he would be top pairing on other teams.. I value Zadorov as a potential top pairing at best but I think he will be a good #3-4 def.. some Avs might value him higher that doesn't mean the entire fanbase is.. but haven't seen any Avs fan saying that

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

This guy must be the biggest Avs hater I've seen in this board Yeah Johnson is a top pairing for our team, I don't think he would be top pairing on other teams.. I value Zadorov as a potential top pairing at best but I think he will be a good #3-4 def.. some Avs might value him higher that doesn't mean the entire fanbase is.. but haven't seen any Avs fan saying that

I can't believe NEB still manages to get people to this day to believe he's even remotely being serious.

I have a hard enough time distinguishing the legitimate posts on our own boards.

 

[Bumpus]

Sakic wouldn't be making a good trade using Maatta as the centerpiece for Duchene. Pittsburgh really doesn't have the assets to get a deal like this done. They don't have a young #1D to use. Maatta isn't bad, but he's not good. Doumlin would be better to use. His play is better than that of Maattas.

Kessel would be the better suitor although Pittsburgh isn't likely to ship him. Only reason I say this is because of salary restraints. Plus Kessel doesn't fit what Sakic wants.

Maybe along the lines of

Sheary/Guentzel + Doumlin + ?

Duchene

Sakic doesn't like the one year wonder type players. He had an interview with TSN (would've posted it if I could've found it again) and said that a player had to play well for 2 years for him to have his undoubted trust. Guentzel may not fit that picture. Sheary may be the better bet.

 

[Bumpus]

Apparently I'm not part of "literally everyone", because I understand that a lot could happen in the next 12-18 months that could convince Duchene to stay. Sure, it's possible that he won't sign an extension, but it's far from a foregone conclusion yet.

I'd also point out that Sakic also publicly stated that he's not the one starting the rumors about trading Duchene, which indicates it's not that Sakic is trying to trade Duchene, it's that other teams are trying to acquire Duchene. If other teams don't like the asking price for the guy they want, why should Sakic settle for what they are willing to pay, when he's apparently not really trying to trade Duchene?

Or should we ignore what Sakic has publicly said and keep going with the media's narrative that Sakic is actively trying to trade Duchene?

 

[triggrman]

Can someone give me an example of another player that fell off stat wise without an injury that returned to form shortly after? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but 20 point drop isn't easily explained by "he was on a bad team".

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Can someone give me an example of another player that fell off stat wise without an injury that returned to form shortly after? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but 20 point drop isn't easily explained by "he was on a bad team".

Eric Staal last season. Need more?

 

[DavidBL]

Eric Staal last season. Need more?

Staal also had to change teams. While its good for trade negotiations it does t necessarily help Col case for keeping him.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Can someone give me an example of another player that fell off stat wise without an injury that returned to form shortly after? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but 20 point drop isn't easily explained by "he was on a bad team".

Ovechkin went from scoring 109 points (50g, 59a) to 85 points (32g, 53a) to 65 points (38g, 27a) over a three year period. People around here were questioning whether he'd ever be the same again. He returned to form by winning 4 straight Richard trophies. His worst season (65 pts) was the season that Backstrom missed significant time with injuries, indicating that his teammates have some impact on his performance.

Alex Tanguay went from being around 60+ points to only scoring 37 points in Tampa Bay. The next year, back in Calgary, he scored 69 and was on pace for 63 (49 in 64 games) the following season.

Martin St Louis scored 94 pts the year before the 2003-04 lockout, but only 61 the year after the lockout. The next year he scored 102. He also had two straight 90+ point seasons, followed by a 74 pt season, followed by winning the Ross in the lockout shortened season.

Brad Richards scored 91 in Tampa, followed by a 70 pt season, then he got traded and scored at a 69 point pace, and then had an injury plagued year, then was back to scoring 91 pts, which he followed up with 77 in 72 games (87.7 pt pace).

Corey Perry had a 98 point season when he won the Richard, followed by a 60 point season, a 67 point pace during the lockout shortened year, and then he was back to being a PPG guy the next year.

Getzlaf scored 76 in 67 games the year Perry won the Richard. The next year he scored 57 in 82. The two years after that, he was a PPG guy again.

That's 6 pretty recent examples.

 

[CheMxDawG]

Eric Staal last season. Need more?

He injured his knee during the summer 3 years before his Minnesota stint.