Confirmed with Link: Duchene to OTT in three-team trade

Status
Not open for further replies.

FolignoQuantumLeap

Don't Hold The Door
Mar 16, 2009
31,084
7,399
Ottawa
Duchene continues to impress.

Still waiting for @FolignoQuantumLeap thoughts on his performance after he called me out post trade which I responded .

Hopefully he has the courtesy to do the same rather than continue to avoid this topic .
I'm super encouraged by his performance in the past month +. He'll never amount to what we gave up for him, but I don't put that on his shoulders, that's on Dorion.

Big thing is he has great chemistry with arguably our most talented winger in Hoffman. Just keep those guys together and they'll produce. I also loved White on their wing and want to see more of that. Hoffman as the main trigger man, Duchene as the set up guy and straw that stirs the drink with White's ability to do the yeoman's work is a thing of beauty and a 'New NHL' mentality. I'd pay money watch that with Karlsson supplying the transition game.

My hope is we get Duchene locked into a 6-7 year deal around 8M. I think that'll be fair market value for Duchene who right now looks like a #1C. I'm still not willing to go as far as you and declare him a top 20 or 30 guy in the league until he proves a bit more when the games actually matter. However, you have to build around something. Stone, Duchene and Karlsson are my guys I'd be building around here. He did nothing when we needed him, that's unfortunate. Won't completely write him off for it and won't totally anoint him for beasting in the meaningless games. I want the Sens to build around team speed, Duchene has it. If he wants to be here, I want him here.
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
15,988
9,555
you see the various comments about Montreal lacking a centre? they've never given up what they needed to give up to acquire one and points notwithstanding this year that team is in real trouble.

We have a C that we can build around coupled with a D that we can build around. We didn't have that with Turris or with Zibanejad.

I don't think Duchene is an elite 1C but he's certainly looked like a 1C in his time here. If we get him and EK signed in July we have 2 building blocks that will last for 5 or 6 years. That puts us in good shape. Everything below that in the lineup is far easier to acquire or draft.

We already have 2 other top 4 D and 3 top 6 wingers and some decent prospects on the way

we just need to solve the goaltending issue
 

Zorf

Apparently I'm entitled?
Jan 4, 2008
4,946
1,566
Wouldn't read into it too much on Friday they sat a number of regulars too. A little early to be resting guys but seems like they are trying to give guys some ice to keep them fresh.

Josi, Smith, Hartnell and Weber all sat out on Friday.
Nope. Read into it a lot! We clearly won the trade. Yay!

High fives for Dorion!!!1!!!!11!!
 

Zorf

Apparently I'm entitled?
Jan 4, 2008
4,946
1,566
I'm super encouraged by his performance in the past month +. He'll never amount to what we gave up for him, but I don't put that on his shoulders, that's on Dorion.

Big thing is he has great chemistry with arguably our most talented winger in Hoffman. Just keep those guys together and they'll produce. I also loved White on their wing and want to see more of that. Hoffman as the main trigger man, Duchene as the set up guy and straw that stirs the drink with White's ability to do the yeoman's work is a thing of beauty and a 'New NHL' mentality. I'd pay money watch that with Karlsson supplying the transition game.

My hope is we get Duchene locked into a 6-7 year deal around 8M. I think that'll be fair market value for Duchene who right now looks like a #1C. I'm still not willing to go as far as you and declare him a top 20 or 30 guy in the league until he proves a bit more when the games actually matter. However, you have to build around something. Stone, Duchene and Karlsson are my guys I'd be building around here. He did nothing when we needed him, that's unfortunate. Won't completely write him off for it and won't totally anoint him for beasting in the meaningless games. I want the Sens to build around team speed, Duchene has it. If he wants to be here, I want him here.


I agree. The Sens aren't a team that needs to blow it up and rebuild. They already have strong foundation pieces in the guys you mentioned (EK, Stone, Hoff, Duchene) and budding key pieces in Chabot and White (maybe Brown?), and then some very capable depth guys like JGP, Dzingel, Ryan (when healthy), and Smith.

The glaring areas of weakness are the blueline after EK and Chabot and the goalies. I'm not sure how to fix the goalies at this point in time, but I think the defence just needs a saavy UFA signing or a trade to bring in the right guy. No more of these old guys who bring "cup experience." We're not winning the cup next year. Bring in someone that fits into the direction that Dorion seems to want to go towards, and that's speed and skill.

I'm all for locking up Duchene long term. Whether or not you want to argue where he ranks as a 1c, he's still a legit 1C, and those guys don't grow on trees. Ask Marc Bergevin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pzeeman

DJB

Registered User
Jan 6, 2009
16,180
10,488
twitter.com
I'm super encouraged by his performance in the past month +. He'll never amount to what we gave up for him, but I don't put that on his shoulders, that's on Dorion.

Big thing is he has great chemistry with arguably our most talented winger in Hoffman. Just keep those guys together and they'll produce. I also loved White on their wing and want to see more of that. Hoffman as the main trigger man, Duchene as the set up guy and straw that stirs the drink with White's ability to do the yeoman's work is a thing of beauty and a 'New NHL' mentality. I'd pay money watch that with Karlsson supplying the transition game.

My hope is we get Duchene locked into a 6-7 year deal around 8M. I think that'll be fair market value for Duchene who right now looks like a #1C. I'm still not willing to go as far as you and declare him a top 20 or 30 guy in the league until he proves a bit more when the games actually matter. However, you have to build around something. Stone, Duchene and Karlsson are my guys I'd be building around here. He did nothing when we needed him, that's unfortunate. Won't completely write him off for it and won't totally anoint him for beasting in the meaningless games. I want the Sens to build around team speed, Duchene has it. If he wants to be here, I want him here.

I appreciate the response .
 

The Lewler

GOAT BUDGET AINEC
Jul 2, 2013
4,675
2,815
Eastern Ontario Badlands
Unless the Sens win the lottery, giving up the 2018 pick seems to be the right move.

Ottawa Senators Rebuild Means Giving Up 2018 Pick


I agree with the idea that if they end up with a 9th-10th overall pick through climbing the standings and bad luck, they should consider it, but the idea they should give up a high 1st this year, with the hopes to try their luck with a lottery pick next year seems dubious to me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sens of Anarchy

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,229
10,452
Yukon
Just imagine the Dorion mud slinging if he gives up a top ten pick this year and Andy and the team bounce back next year. He's got a tough decision to make because those saying its the right thing to do now will be there with pitch forks if it goes sideways.
 

Sensinitis

Registered User
Aug 5, 2012
15,934
5,526
Re-sign Duchene, Karlsson and Stone.

Draft a (likely) top 5 talent this year to add to the nice crop of young guys we have: Brown, White, Chlapik, Batherson, Formenton, Jaros, Gustavsson, etc.

Rebound next season by being a bubble team (maybe more, who knows) carried by Karlsson, Duchene, Stone, Hoffman, Pageau, Chabot and riding youngsters that are hungry for spots and want to be regulars in the NHL. Again Chabot applies here, but also guys like Formenton, Brown, White, Chlapik, Jaros, etc.

To do that you have to free up a few more spots though. Smith and Burrows can please go most notably. Getting rid of just those two frees up some space for EK’s extension (especially Smith who has 3 years left).

I can’t understand any other way of proceeding. I really can’t. Unless you’re getting a deal and a half for EK which I highly doubt, but even then you risk giving a pretty good pick to the Avs. If we’re really taking a step back for two steps forward, that means that next season we’re a bubble team at least.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Deku

danielpalfredsson

youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
Aug 14, 2013
16,575
9,269
Just imagine the Dorion mud slinging if he gives up a top ten pick this year and Andy and the team bounce back next year. He's got a tough decision to make because those saying its the right thing to do now will be there with pitch forks if it goes sideways.

It's a no win situation if you want to look at it like that.

The way I see it, is that if we are rebuilding I think we're extremely likely to fall into the 6-12 type ball park draft wise anyways. So we're getting a similar pick regardless. But the odds of us winning the lottery and picking top 3 in 2019 I think are greater than the odds of us making the playoffs, so weighing the risks we should give up the pick if it is in the 6-10 range.

There are risks in both directions. I still think the least risky move is to give up the pick if it is in the 6-10 range. The only exception would be is if we have someone that the Senators are incredibly high on fall to 6 on draft day since the Senators can wait until the 5th player is selected to choose whether or not they keep their pick
 

megalomania

Registered User
Sep 29, 2010
1,190
60
Switzerland
There are risks in both directions. I still think the least risky move is to give up the pick if it is in the 6-10 range. The only exception would be is if we have someone that the Senators are incredibly high on fall to 6 on draft day since the Senators can wait until the 5th player is selected to choose whether or not they keep their pick

Ultimately there has to be a final decision on the plan going forward by the draft. If you keep the pick (assuming Sens end up outside the top 5 picks) you absolutely have to re-sign Karlsson and re-tool around him with the goal of being back to the playoff fringe next year. Considering the amount of unmoveable contracts/money the Sens currently have that is a very tall order without spending more than 68 million (assuming Stone at 7+ and Ceci at 4+ and the obvious need for adding quality to the current blueline). On the other hand, giving up the 2018 pick is the definite sign of the start of a longer rebuild - trade Karlsson for futures, probably don't re-sign Duchene, try to assemble a young team that will hopefully be ready to make some noise in the playoffs by 2021 or so. There are both monetary and strategical reasons for both options; it all comes down to what Dorion/Melnyk decides and whether Karlsson is actually willing to stay.
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
65,007
49,540
On giving up a 6-10 pick. If this was 2016 and we are in the same position... We can look back and see how those 6-10 picks look now, even though they would have similar risk , projecting forward
16CalgaryMatthew TkachukLLondon Knights [OHL]1413760971662017-18
17ArizonaClayton KellerCU.S. National Development Team [USHL]68173148222017-18
18BuffaloAlexander NylanderRMississauga Steelheads [OHL]401102016-17
19MontrealMikhail SergachevDWindsor Spitfires [OHL]6982331322017-18
110ColoradoTyson JostCPenticton Vees [BCHL]5581018122017-18
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
I would not want to pass on anybody here other than Nylander... and at that time Nylander looked like as much of a sure thing as any of these guys outside maybe Tkachuk. I doubt they pass if Nylander is there at that time.
In 2015 passing after 5 would mean passing on 7. Provorov, 8. Werenski, 10. Rantanen..
2014 we'd pass on 8. Nylander and 9. Ehlers ... would you want one of them over pick 4 Bennett
I think we have to wait and see... If Wahlstrom is there at 6 do we pass? If Dobson is there do we pass? We would pass with the expection our pick next year is going to yield a better player... For many Bouchard is looking pretty good as well.. Who here knows how good Farabee will become? I don't think its an automatic pass if we end up with 6 or 7 ... and after that we have to see who's on the board and how much they have been scouted and how they are ranked on the Sens board. And there is no guarantee pick 3 or 4 is actually going to be a better player than pick 7 or 8, especially factoring in another draft year.
 
Last edited:

BondraTime

Registered User
Nov 20, 2005
28,479
23,061
East Coast
I am clinging that this year is an aberration, plus I don't even know what next year's draft looks like. I know this year the top 7 or 8 look like sure fire NHLers, even impact players sooner than later.
Next years draft is very, very strong.

I don't think we give up a pick this year. If we do, we will know where we stand with regards to next season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: danielpalfredsson

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,781
4,476
Next years draft is very, very strong.

I don't think we give up a pick this year. If we do, we will know where we stand with regards to next season.

Hmm, great. If Karlsson is back, and I think he is, this team will not be this bad again. We have seen the impact of a healthy Karlsson the last 3 games. He is as true an MVP as there can be.
 

Zorf

Apparently I'm entitled?
Jan 4, 2008
4,946
1,566
I think the team needs to keep this pick, even if it's in the 7-10 range because it will also be a vote of confidence from management to the players. They keep this pick, acknowledge that this season was a write off, but in doing so, they let the players know that this also means they believe in the team and that there will be significant improvement next year.

It's a little bit weak, but what the heck, I'll take any little boost of confidence that I can get. I'm sure the players feel the same.


Plus, there's also the potential argument that management can make to ownership with, "Look, we're giving up the 2019 pick. In order to mitigate the risks associated with this, we are requesting additional funds for the internal cap to facilitate a trade or be a key player on the UFA market."

Boom. How can the Euge say no to that?

...

...


..

he'll say no. But it's worth a shot!
 

Zorf

Apparently I'm entitled?
Jan 4, 2008
4,946
1,566
Hmm, great. If Karlsson is back, and I think he is, this team will not be this bad again. We have seen the impact of a healthy Karlsson the last 3 games. He is as true an MVP as there can be.

Healthy Karlsson...check
Anderson not on his bi-annual crappy year....check
No more Oduya....check
No more Burrows....hopefully!


That's a recipe for success right there!
 
  • Like
Reactions: coladin

coladin

Registered User
Sep 18, 2009
11,781
4,476
Healthy Karlsson...check
Anderson not on his bi-annual crappy year....check
No more Oduya....check
No more Burrows....hopefully!


That's a recipe for success right there!

Heck of a start, that's for sure
 

EdAVSfan

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Aug 28, 2009
7,325
4,321
Seeing Lebrun posting several times about the topic, I was curious to get a sense from all of you guys about where the breaking point is on moving/not moving the pick.

6+? 7+?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->