Rumor: DUCHENE THREAD: Garrioch: Sens "aggressively" pursuing Duchene

[The Abusement Park]

Phaneuf, Chabot, and a pick for Duchene would be fine by me.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Phaneuf, Chabot, and a pick for Duchene would be fine by me.

Colorado is not getting Chabot.

And Ottawa can't afford to trade Ceci or Phaneuf, doing so would tear their defense apart, it doesn't make any sense for them.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Phaneuf is signed for 4 more years instead of 2 more years, wasn't as risky because he wasn't linked to Karlsson like Methot was, and has more offensive game.

Again, it was more a question of "I don't understand why Avs are putting EJ on a pedestal and calling Phaneuf a cap dump".

Well for starters we don't have to give anything up for EJ.

 

[Mighty Makar]

I mean, I'd take Phaneuf if that meant getting Chabot.

Agreed, but I don’t think Chabot will be traded. We can dream, though.

 

[JoemAvs]

Huh?

I never suggested a trade. I just asked why Avs were turning up their noses at Phaneuf. Take a pill.

Cause he is a declining player on a horrible contract.

The exact combination that killed the Avs over the last few seasons.

Brad Stuart, Beauchemin, Iginla....

We really don't want to add Phaneuf to that list unless we get a hefty compensation for taking on that albatross...


Pretty sure no team in the league would pick up Phaneuf off of waivers right now.
That is all you should know about his value.

Add the Avs recent checkered history with exactly the type of player Phaneuf right now and we really, really, really don't want him...

 

[IranCondraAffair]

As a Sens fan, not following your argument. Why would a rebuilding team want Phaneuf?

I guarantee you Joe Sakic will not agree to a deal involving Phaneuf unless it includes Chabot - which it won't.

A rebuilding team did trade for Phaneuf, Ottawa. It worked out very well.

Again, I'm not suggesting a trade, I just don't logically see why a team with so many issues keeps thinking the only help would be a teenage defense-man.

It isn't even really about phaneuf, it is more about the attitude.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Phaneuf, Chabot, and a pick for Duchene would be fine by me.

I think its safe to say Chabot is off the table. The uncertainty (pretty certain though) of Karlsson resigning makes him even more untouchable

 

[50 in 07]

Phaneuf, Chabot, and a pick for Duchene would be fine by me.

I don't see how Ottawa can afford to trade both Phaneuf and Chabot after just losing Methot. The LD depth would be decimated.

Creating a bigger hole than you'd be filling.

 

[IranCondraAffair]

Cause he is a declining player on a horrible contract.

The exact combination that killed the Avs over the last few seasons.

Brad Stuart, Beauchemin, Iginla....

We really don't want to add Phaneuf to that list unless we get a hefty compensation for taking on that albatross...


Pretty sure no team in the league would pick up Phaneuf off of waivers right now.
That is all you should know about his value.

Add the Avs recent checkered history with exactly the type of player Phaneuf right now and we really, really, really don't want him...

See, this is more what I'm getting at. I'm not suggesting Phaneuf has value in some Duchene trade.

I'm asking why, assuming he was on waivers or something. The Avs seem to think he wouldn't help.

Beauchemin, Iginla, and Stuart all signed with the Avs when they were 35+ as I recall. And Beauchemin and Iginala were good for their first years.

That's like arguing you should sign Phaneuf for 5M AFTER his current contract. I'm talking about arguing if he'd improve the Avs for the next 1-3 years.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I don't see how Ottawa can afford to trade both Phaneuf and Chabot after just losing Methot. The LD depth would be decimated.

Creating a bigger hole than you'd be filling.

Exactly. If the Sens hadn't lost Methot they could have entertained moving Phaneuf, maybe even Ceci, but as of right now it would be a terrible move to trade either.

 

[AvsGuy]

That's like arguing you should sign Phaneuf for 5M AFTER his current contract. I'm talking about arguing if he'd improve the Avs for the next 1-3 years.

I'm sure he would, just not to the tune of $7 million annually.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

A rebuilding team did trade for Phaneuf, Ottawa. It worked out very well.

Again, I'm not suggesting a trade, I just don't logically see why a team with so many issues keeps thinking the only help would be a teenage defense-man.

It isn't even really about phaneuf, it is more about the attitude.

The whole reason to rebuild is to have success in the future. Phaneuf is unlikely to be very helpful to the Avs beyond the next 4 years, and he might actually hurt the rebuild if the team gets worse draft picks because of his contributions. It makes a lot more sense to go after a longer term solution, even if it means the team gets worse in the short term.

 

[Kalv]

I think the Avs have the next year to see what other offers are made. Risto is a very nice piece, but he's a RHD, and we already have lots of RHD. Maybe Risto would displace Barrie, maybe he'd even take the 1D role from EJ. But, you don't make a big trade to moderately upgrade something, when you have a massive need elsewhere. The only reason to make a big trade, right now, is to fill the gaping hole at LHD. If that's not an option today, that's fine, we'll play with what we've got, and see what options might pop up in the next year or so. This isn't a 0 risk option, obviously, but there isn't any reason to panic yet.

I guess that`s reasonable.

From Ducks perspective the best LHD option we could give you is Larsson. Well, he began last season in the opening night roster (he actually beat Theodore and Montour), but went back to Sweden eventually to continue develop there as some injured veterans returned to Ducks. Larsson is not as flashy name because he played in Europe but he is a very good A level prospect and for sure would be able to play for Avs already. Nick Ritchie I assume could also be in play. Not sure if that would intrigue Sakic or not, but that is what we realistically can offer to you

 

[Linds]

I guess that`s reasonable.

From Ducks perspective the best LHD option we could give you is Larsson. Well, he began last season in the opening night roster (he actually beat Theodore and Montour), but went back to Sweden eventually to continue develop there as some injured veterans returned to Ducks. Larsson is not as flashy name because he played in Europe but he is a very good A level prospect and for sure would be able to play for Avs already. Nick Ritchie I assume could also be in play. Not sure if that would intrigue Sakic or not, but that is what we realistically can offer to you

That offer easily gets beat by NSH CLB and CAR

 

[Papa Francouz]

I guess that`s reasonable.

From Ducks perspective the best LHD option we could give you is Larsson. Well, he began last season in the opening night roster (he actually beat Theodore and Montour), but went back to Sweden eventually to continue develop there as some injured veterans returned to Ducks. Larsson is not as flashy name because he played in Europe but he is a very good A level prospect and for sure would be able to play for Avs already. Nick Ritchie I assume could also be in play. Not sure if that would intrigue Sakic or not, but that is what we realistically can offer to you

As an Avs fan, I would be very interested in Larsson. It's the additional pieces coming back with him that I think would hold up a deal between the two sides. Sakic would probably ask for a 1st+Steel/Jones to come back with Larsson, and I imagine that would be too much in the eyes of Ducks management.

 

[VoynovsParoleOfficer]

The whole reason to rebuild is to have success in the future. Phaneuf is unlikely to be very helpful to the Avs beyond the next 4 years, and he might actually hurt the rebuild if the team gets worse draft picks because of his contributions. It makes a lot more sense to go after a longer term solution, even if it means the team gets worse in the short term.

this is a bunch of malarkey, what is this the NFL? if you are a GM in hockey who is going into the season being ranked possibly below an expansion team you don't not improve your roster in fear of becoming too mediocre and not getting lotto picks....if you have teenagers you want to let develop instead of bringing them into the fold thats one thing but dont tell me they are not looking for small roster upgrades out of fear of drafting 6 overall instead of 1-3. Thats my #1 HF boards pet peeve. Just because you are not a cup contendor does not mean you dont try and improve your roster. Thats not saying you trade youth to get vets to make the team decent, but you'll see people on here knocking free agent signings because the player isnt a star and dosnt make the team a contendor smh. Give your players something to play for, give your fans something to cheer for and give your team a chance to be respectable.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

As an Avs fan, I would be very interested in Larsson. It's the additional pieces coming back with him that I think would hold up a deal between the two sides. Sakic would probably ask for a 1st+Steel/Jones to come back with Larsson, and I imagine that would be too much in the eyes of Ducks management.

Highly unlikely we move our top forward prospect, top defense prospect and 1st round in 2018.

I think

Larsson + 1st + Troy Terry/Nattinen is closer to what wed offer, steel/jones + Larsson and 1st is way too much from anaheims perspective. If they wanted steel or jones, Larsson would have to be off the table.

Not that it matters but I assume the avs have a decent book on terry seeing as he is from Denver, and plays at Denver university.

 

[JoemAvs]

this is a bunch of malarkey, what is this the NFL? if you are a GM in hockey who is going into the season being ranked possibly below an expansion team you don't not improve your roster in fear of becoming too mediocre and not getting lotto picks....if you have teenagers you want to let develop instead of bringing them into the fold thats one thing but dont tell me they are not looking for small roster upgrades out of fear of drafting 6 overall instead of 1-3. Thats my #1 HF boards pet peeve. Just because you are not a cup contendor does not mean you dont try and improve your roster. Thats not saying you trade youth to get vets to make the team decent, but you'll see people on here knocking free agent signings because the player isnt a star and dosnt make the team a contendor smh. Give your players something to play for, give your fans something to cheer for and give your team a chance to be respectable.

Well you are taking flyers on guys like Yakupov or Franson maybe to improve your team.

That makes sense.

Taking on a guy like Phaneuf who is owed 7M for 4 more years?

That makes 0 sense.

The main value of Phaneuf on the ice will come in the first 2 years in that deal.

Do the Avs look like a serious playoff contender in the next 2 years with Phaneuf?

They sure don't look like it to me right now.

So why take on that ugly contract? To block spots for younger options and make your draft pick worse?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

this is a bunch of malarkey, what is this the NFL? if you are a GM in hockey who is going into the season being ranked possibly below an expansion team you don't not improve your roster in fear of becoming too mediocre and not getting lotto picks....if you have teenagers you want to let develop instead of bringing them into the fold thats one thing but dont tell me they are not looking for small roster upgrades out of fear of drafting 6 overall instead of 1-3. Thats my #1 HF boards pet peeve. Just because you are not a cup contendor does not mean you dont try and improve your roster. Thats not saying you trade youth to get vets to make the team decent, but you'll see people on here knocking free agent signings because the player isnt a star and dosnt make the team a contendor smh. Give your players something to play for, give your fans something to cheer for and give your team a chance to be respectable.

I agree that GMs should always be trying to improve their teams with small roster upgrades. But that doesn't mean you abandon the high level, long term plan, just to go after any short term upgrade that comes your way. The long term plan in Colorado is to get younger, and build through the draft. Phaneuf doesn't help achieve that plan in the slightest.

 

[VoynovsParoleOfficer]

Well you are taking flyers on guys like Yakupov or Franson maybe to improve your team.

That makes sense.

Taking on a guy like Phaneuf who is owed 7M for 4 more years?

That makes 0 sense.

The main value of Phaneuf on the ice will come in the first 2 years in that deal.

Do the Avs look like a serious playoff contender in the next 2 years with Phaneuf?

They sure don't look like it to me right now.

So why take on that ugly contract? To block spots for younger options and make your draft pick worse?

you have 10 mil in cap space with several 3 million dollar useless players off the books in 2 years and varly 6M off the books in 2 years and for now Duchene leaving would cancel out Phaneuf. You arent blocking spots for younger options though what LHD do the avs have in their prospect pool that project to be 20 min a game all purpose players in the next 2 years? Phaneuf brings consistency/leadership/stability, which makes the team system better, which makes everyone play on the same page and gives their top end talent a chance to make things happen. It sucks that fans would rather see 56 points and a chance at the lotto rather than watch their team hunt down a wild card spot. its not even about Phaneuf, look im not saying i like Phaneuf but hes better than mark Barberio and if you can get sick prospects and an additional pick for taking him on then i hate the idea that Phaneuf makes the team slightly better and by doing that makes the team worse thats just silly......i feel like it goes without saying that Phaneuf would add negative value to the trade from OTT side but they would compensate by adding a piece to the trade

 

[BB88]

Yakupov was a skilled player that had absolutely no confidence after being destroyed by the Oilers. Schultz is just a dumb as rocks player who is just bad at hockey.

See what I did there? Let's be real here, if Schultz was that highly thought of at the time the Penguins wouldn't have gotten him for a bag of pucks.

What are the chances that Yakupov breaks out in Colorado?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

What are the chances that Yakupov breaks out in Colorado?

Right now, I'd put them somewhere around "not completely impossible". That's as optimistic as I can get right now. Ask again after we've seen a regular season game or 10.

 

[JoemAvs]

you have 10 mil in cap space with several 3 million dollar useless players off the books in 2 years and varly 6M off the books in 2 years and for now Duchene leaving would cancel out Phaneuf. You arent blocking spots for younger options though what LHD do the avs have in their prospect pool that project to be 20 min a game all purpose players in the next 2 years? Phaneuf brings consistency/leadership/stability, which makes the team system better, which makes everyone play on the same page and gives their top end talent a chance to make things happen. It sucks that fans would rather see 56 points and a chance at the lotto rather than watch their team hunt down a wild card spot. its not even about Phaneuf, look im not saying i like Phaneuf but hes better than mark Barberio and if you can get sick prospects and an additional pick for taking him on then i hate the idea that Phaneuf makes the team slightly better and by doing that makes the team worse thats just silly......i feel like it goes without saying that Phaneuf would add negative value to the trade from OTT side but they would compensate by adding a piece to the trade

Avs have kept hunting for the playoffs with inept teams carried on the back of their goaltenders way too many times over the last decade.

It is not pleasant and ultimately does not help you much in comparison to the payoff of a high-lottery pick.

It makes no sense to go all out for the 20th place if your roster is as bad as the Avs roster which unless Varly bounces back to Vezina form has no chance at the playoffs. And in hindsight that fluke year set us back 3 years+. So not keen on that happening again either...
Play your youth, hope they develop the way you want them to be and hope that the 2018 1st can be that piece that can help turn the franchise around.

And its not like Phaneuf is gone after this season. If he had one year left ? Worth considering.

4 freaking years? No way.

The Avs are hopefully out of the bottom for good in 3-4 years and we then really don't want to have the corpse of Phaneuf messing up our capsituation...

 

[UnleashRasmus]

I would assume this is Botterill doing his due dilligence. With the cap structure involved, it would take moving out one of Evander Kane, Matt Moulson, or Zach Bogosian to make this happen. Not to mention, I just don't see it being that great a fit. He's a fantastic talent coming off a down season. So unless it's at a less than steep cost, I doubt Buffalo would be involved at the finishing line.

 

[authentic]

I think he would be a great fit in Ottawa. I wonder what they would have to give up though.