Friedman: Duchene & Landy available - Avs want D, won't sell cheap

[Sweetpotato]

Just yet? They've missed the playoffs seven years in a row and are averaging 11,000 fans per game. What are they waiting for?

Duchene would be their 1st-line center. Hanifin is currently their 3rd-pairing defenceman.

Is the possibility of maybe slightly losing a trade three years down the road a good enough reason to hold back a franchise worth hundreds of millions playing in an arena costing hundreds of millions from, you know, being a better team?

My franchise for a Hanifin!

i have to agree with this. If this went down itd be similar to Johansen for Jones, helps both teams and both players are still young.

 

[GoldiFox]

Can someone in the know tell me how the depth chart/ranking of defensive players and prospects look for Carolina? I know a little about some of them but couldn't tell you who is the most highly touted. I'm looking for a combination of current play, talent, and upside.

Noah Hanifin
Jaccob Slavin
Justin Faulk
Brett Pesce
Haydn Fleury
Jake Bean
Roland McKeown

is the order I would put them in, is that fairly accurate?

Right now:
Slavin/Faulk
Pesce
Hanifin
Fleury/Bean/McKeown

Pure Upside:
Hanifin
Slavin/Faulk
Bean
Pesce/Fluery
McKeown

How I think they shake out:
Slavin
Hanifin
Faulk
Fleury
Pesce
Bean
McKeown

I think the Canes would happily pay Fleury + 1st + another decent prospect or pick for Duchene or Landeskog. I doubt Francis trades Hanifin, but the Canes certainly wouldn't be adding in that deal.

 

[MinJaBen]

Can someone in the know tell me how the depth chart/ranking of defensive players and prospects look for Carolina? I know a little about some of them but couldn't tell you who is the most highly touted. I'm looking for a combination of current play, talent, and upside.

Noah Hanifin
Jaccob Slavin
Justin Faulk
Brett Pesce
Haydn Fleury
Jake Bean
Roland McKeown

is the order I would put them in, is that fairly accurate?

As a Canes Fan, I'd say that is wrong. My opinion of their play is:

Slavin
Pesce
Faulk
Hanifin
McKeown
Bean/Fleury

My opinion of their upside:

Slavin
Hanifin
Bean
Faulk
Pesce
McKeown
Fleury

My overall rank, basically an inverse of "would I trade them" if asking:

Slavin
Pesce
Hanifin
Faulk
Bean
McKeown
Fleury

 

[Patagonia]

i have to agree with this. If this went down itd be similar to Johansen for Jones, helps both teams and both players are still young.

Hanifin (preferred) or Sergachev mahybe + slight add would be excellent options for Duchene. Each team needs a strong offensive forward and making this even trade benefits each team.

Make this happen, the fit is perfect

 

[GoldiFox]

i have to agree with this. If this went down itd be similar to Johansen for Jones, helps both teams and both players are still young.

If Duchene was an RFA at the end of his deal and wasn't 6 years older than Hanifin then it would be similar. Those two attributes are pretty glaringly different.

Montreal is a much better fit in that regard. They are competing right now and could absorb the blow of Duchene walking in 2 years. For the Canes it would be a huge gamble and Ron Francis is about as polar opposite as one can be from a big gambler. They'd be much better off targeting a Draisatl type who is similar age with similar guaranteed years in a Hanifin deal.

 

[Evgeny Oliker]

but

All true but if Carolina is smart they would trade for Duchene and then try to sign him to a longer term deal soon after. He would be their #1 center and considering his numbers this season are not great, they could get him for a reasonable price...

 

[Ararana]

Just yet? They've missed the playoffs seven years in a row and are averaging 11,000 fans per game. What are they waiting for?

Duchene would be their 1st-line center. Hanifin is currently their 3rd-pairing defenceman.

Is the possibility of maybe slightly losing a trade three years down the road a good enough reason to hold back a franchise worth hundreds of millions playing in an arena costing hundreds of millions from, you know, being a better team?

My franchise for a Hanifin!

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you. It's Carolina fans we need to convince

 

[1909]

Ottawa could be a good partner for the AVS.

They got Bobby Ryan, Brassard, Ceci, even Chabot or White

for

Landeskog, Duchesne, Gélinas or Beauchemin.

 

[Avs44]

Ottawa could be a good partner for the AVS.

They got Bobby Ryan, Brassard, Ceci, even Chabot or White

for

Landeskog, Duchesne, Gélinas or Beauchemin.

What?

 

[projexns]

If Duchene was an RFA at the end of his deal and wasn't 6 years older than Hanifin then it would be similar. Those two attributes are pretty glaringly different.

Montreal is a much better fit in that regard. They are competing right now and could absorb the blow of Duchene walking in 2 years. For the Canes it would be a huge gamble and Ron Francis is about as polar opposite as one can be from a big gambler. They'd be much better off targeting a Draisatl type who is similar age with similar guaranteed years in a Hanifin deal.

Duchene is available. Draisaitl isn't.

This fetish for young players is unnecessary. Not every player has to be under 23 years of age with pimples. Carolina has plenty of young players.

Duchene is about to turn 26. He is a 1st-line center. He is signed for three more playoff runs. If he likes it in Carolina and the Carolina front-office likes him, he will stay longer. In NHL terms, this is the silver platter with a golden goose on it.

I don’t get the inferiority complex. I don’t get this passive acceptance of perpetual losing.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with you. It's Carolina fans we need to convince

I know

Ronnie Francis and Rod Brind’Amour are winners. They know that the best and longest-serving players on that team haven’t sniffed a playoff game since they’ve worn the Hurricane jersey. They are on the cusp of getting rid of the losing culture. I can’t wait, the players in the room and season-ticket holders deserve it.

 

[MinJaBen]

Duchene is available. Draisaitl isn't.

This fetish for young players is unnecessary. Not every player has to be under 23 years of age with pimples. Carolina has plenty of young players.

Duchene is about to turn 26. He is a 1st-line center. He is signed for three more playoff runs. If he likes it in Carolina and the Carolina front-office likes him, he will stay longer. In NHL terms, this is the silver platter with a golden goose on it.

I don’t get the inferiority complex. I don’t get this passive acceptance of perpetual losing.



I know

Ronnie Francis and Rod Brind’Amour are winners. They know that the best and longest-serving players on that team haven’t sniffed a playoff game since they’ve worn the Hurricane jersey. They are on the cusp of getting rid of the losing culture. I can’t wait, the players in the room and season-ticket holders deserve it.

I'm glad you feel this way....so let's talk Faulk for Duchene.

 

[Jarey Curry]

Just yet? They've missed the playoffs seven years in a row and are averaging 11,000 fans per game. What are they waiting for?

Duchene would be their 1st-line center. Hanifin is currently their 3rd-pairing defenceman.

Is the possibility of maybe slightly losing a trade three years down the road a good enough reason to hold back a franchise worth hundreds of millions playing in an arena costing hundreds of millions from, you know, being a better team?

My franchise for a Hanifin!

Well said, you gotta call Sakic and Carolina's gm and tell them this

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I don’t get the inferiority complex. I don’t get this passive acceptance of perpetual losing.

.

Carolina is already breaking that culture, and is in the cusp of a playoff spot, without Duchenne. It's the first time in years they have a team that plays 100% effort, a team that is in every game.

According to The Plan, this is the final rebuilding year before the window for contention opens (on track mostly because Hockey Jesus turned into a #1 defenseman, they lucked out on Aho in the 2nd and because whoever is running the Blackhawks can t manage the cap for ****), so RF may be content to let it ride, see what happens when you add Gauthier, Roy and Wallmark next year to the forwards and try for a trade next year.

This is all said without saying that Duchene makes the hurricanes better, and that these opportunities don't come by often. Just trying to insert what is believed to be Ron Francis' perspective.

 

[Iracundia]

I'm glad you feel this way....so let's talk Faulk for Duchene.

Convert Faulk into a LHD and get back to us.

 

[projexns]

I'm glad you feel this way....so let's talk Faulk for Duchene.

I'm not a Colorado fan but for numerous reasons I wouldn't target Faulk if I were them. They already have Barrie.

 

[Foppberg]

Yeah I wouldn't trade Duchene for Faulk, either Slavin or Hanifin. But the consensus seems to be "hell no" on Canes fans side, so.

 

[Patagonia]

I'm glad you feel this way....so let's talk Faulk for Duchene.

Keep Faulk, AVs need long-term help. Faulk has 2 years remaining on his contract and will leave before the AVs turnaround is complete. Canes have missed the last 7 years of playoff contention; with constant losing it hurt the fanbase where they're easily the worst in the NHL with 66% capacity of 11K per game. Duchene can help make the team competitive, otherwise, keep losing and eventually the already small fans will stop[ attending games.

 

[projexns]

Carolina is already breaking that culture, and is in the cusp of a playoff spot, without Duchenne. It's the first time in years they have a team that plays 100% effort, a team that is in every game.

According to The Plan, this is the final rebuilding year before the window for contention opens (on track mostly because Hockey Jesus turned into a #1 defenseman, they lucked out on Aho in the 2nd and because whoever is running the Blackhawks can t manage the cap for ****), so RF may be content to let it ride, see what happens when you add Gauthier, Roy and Wallmark next year to the forwards and try for a trade next year.

This is all said without saying that Duchene makes the hurricanes better, and that these opportunities don't come by often. Just trying to insert what is believed to be Ron Francis' perspective.

Regarding the bolded part, I believe that Francis has been patient as the early part of his reign required it. Now that the team has gotten better, he has decisions to make. This is where I think the "winner" in Ron Francis will makes it's presence felt from the GM's chair.

You bringing up Stan Bowman raises a good point. How do we arrange our priorities, and when two principles collide, should the lesser principle not yield to the higher principle?

The highest principle is winning. Stan Bowman does this very well.

Less importantly, sometimes that winning causes salary cap issues. They get dealt with, and we might even "lose" a trade in order to keep the higher principle of "winning" intact.

Edmonton may have "lost" the Hall-Larsson trade, but they are a better team because of it, they dealt from a position of long-term strength to address a position of long-term weakness to address the higher principle of winning hockey games rather than winning a trade.

These are the decisions that Francis now has to tackle as the team is no longer a playoff afterthought, but rather in the thick of it with a competitive team.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Keep Faulk, AVs need long-term help. Faulk has 2 years remaining on his contract and will leave before the AVs turnaround is complete.

Faulk has 3 years after this season.

 

[GoldiFox]

Keep Faulk, AVs need long-term help. Faulk has 2 years remaining on his contract and will leave before the AVs turnaround is complete. Canes have missed the last 7 years of playoff contention; with constant losing it hurt the fanbase where they're easily the worst in the NHL with 66% capacity of 11K per game. Duchene can help make the team competitive, otherwise, keep losing and eventually the already small fans will stop[ attending games.

So term matters (3 years after this not 2) when we're talking about Faulk but apparently it doesn't when it comes to Duchene? Everything Francis has done up to this point points towards long-term team building.

If the Canes do trade for Duchene I'll trust that the Canes have talked with him about sticking around. The Canes aren't trading their future away for a couple years of a Wildcard spot just because attendance has been bad. As it stands I would much rather have Landeskog and his guaranteed term.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

So term matters (3 years after this not 2) when we're talking about Faulk but apparently it doesn't when it comes to Duchene? Everything Francis has done up to this point points towards long-term team building.

If the Canes do trade for Duchene I'll trust that the Canes have talked with him about sticking around. The Canes aren't trading their future away for a couple years of a Wildcard spot just because attendance has been bad. As it stands I would much rather have Landeskog and his guaranteed term.

Avs have enough RHD, and Barrie is similar enough to Faulk that he is not a pressing need. LHD is more the need for Avs, and 1st line C is the need for Canes. No?

 

[Freudian]

So term matters (3 years after this not 2) when we're talking about Faulk but apparently it doesn't when it comes to Duchene? Everything Francis has done up to this point points towards long-term team building.

If the Canes do trade for Duchene I'll trust that the Canes have talked with him about sticking around. The Canes aren't trading their future away for a couple years of a Wildcard spot just because attendance has been bad.

If Avs are starting to trade the likes of Landeskog or Duchene, it means they are building around MacKinnon, Rantanen, Jost and the player they draft in this year. Players aged 18-21.

Surely you can see why a Hanifin would be a much better fit than Faulk with this in mind. Faulk would be an UFA by the time Avs are ready to do something and he might or he might not be willing to re-sign.

I think Faulk has good value around the league but there is a reason McKenzie and others have been talking about NHL ready defenders with high upside as the main piece coming back if a Duchene is traded. That's really what Avs need. Someone to grow with the very young core.

 

[GoldiFox]

Avs have enough RHD, and Barrie is similar enough to Faulk that he is not a pressing need. LHD is more the need for Avs, and 1st line C is the need for Canes. No?

Victor Rask has been a solid 1C this year. He's outscoring Duchene. No doubt that Duchene is the better player, but it's not a massive upgrade. All of the Canes top-3 Cs (Rask, J. Staal, and Teravainen) have been playing well.

 

[GoldiFox]

If Avs are starting to trade the likes of Landeskog or Duchene, it means they are building around MacKinnon, Rantanen, Jost and the player they draft in this year. Players aged 18-21.

Surely you can see why a Hanifin would be a much better fit than Faulk with this in mind. Faulk would be an UFA by the time Avs are ready to do something and he might or he might not be willing to re-sign.

I think Faulk has good value around the league but there is a reason McKenzie and others have been talking about NHL ready defenders with high upside as the main piece coming back if a Duchene is traded. That's really what Avs need. Someone to grow with the very young core.

I agree... But the same logic applies to the Canes. By the time the Canes are ready to realistically compete Duchene will be a UFA.

 

[projexns]

So term matters (3 years after this not 2) when we're talking about Faulk but apparently it doesn't when it comes to Duchene? Everything Francis has done up to this point points towards long-term team building.

If the Canes do trade for Duchene I'll trust that the Canes have talked with him about sticking around. The Canes aren't trading their future away for a couple years of a Wildcard spot just because attendance has been bad. As it stands I would much rather have Landeskog and his guaranteed term.

This is an example of taking competing principles and having the lesser principle yield to the higher principle.

a.) Duchene is the better player signed for three more playoff runs
b.) Landeskog is the lesser player signed for five more playoff runs

I know that you prefer the certainty of five years, but the higher principle of better talent for three years (with the good possibility of contract extension beyond that) should win out here.

You've improved your chances of winning TODAY while keeping all kinds of possibilities and open doors intact for the future.