LeBrun: Dubois may be looking for change of scenery

[2020 Cup Champions]

Top of my head (edit; twas hard so I googled)
13 - Horton, Clarkson, Hainsey, Iginla
14 - Statsny, Vanek, Cammalleri, Hillier, Stralman, Niskinen
15 - Belesky, Green, Franson, Frolik, bunch of complimentary dmen
16 - Stamkos, Okposo, Backed, Lucic, Ladd, Eriksson, Neilson, Boedker, Staal
17 - Shattenkirk, Radulov, Hanzal, Alzner, Thorton
18 - Tavares, JVR, Statsny, Green, Neal, Thorton, Perron, Bozak
19 - well, you know. I won't touch that year for your sake

Lots of quality players there, only one really even considered Columbus. I get it, I cheer for Montreal. Short of hockey history, it's in the same boat as Columbus. I also love the city of Calgary. End of the day, players have opinions on favourite cities and those 3 aren't typically on it.

If you fill out '19 and include Nyquist, that's 2 out of the last 35-40 biggest names. There's 31 teams in the league. Columbus somehow looks better than average with your sample. Obviously it does not in reality have a better pull than average.

IIRC Stamkos signed the day before free agency began, and if I'm right that means you can take your top or maybe 2nd biggest UFA out of that list.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Dubois will end up in Quebec. If not now, down the road

Probably when he's 38 and sucks

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Dubois will end up in Quebec. If not now, down the road

Yeah possibly when cow's and pigs fly. Perhaps the last year of his career.

 

[ThailandGuy]

PLD is not leaving Columbus.

 

[Vitto79]

Well NYR needs a C next year so I’m sure rumors will pop up. 1st, Strome, Kravtsov enough ?

 

[cslebn]

The Jackets have had issues securing their best forwards long-term--Johansen, Carter, Panarin, etc. Now there's talk that Dubois may want a change of scenery. With all that, I could only imagine the drama after the season when Laine wants elite money.

You included Carter, that's cute.

 

[Roadhouse]

You included Carter, that's cute.

He forgot Anderson though. Not given the chance to bet on himself for a long term contract, take the 3 years and sit your ass down... no?

 

[majormajor]

Which is dumb as all get out and a self-fulfilling problem. No player wants to go to a team that is playing with one hand self-tied behind their back most off-seasons. Competitive teams may be built through the draft but they are consummated through free agency.

That’s actually pretty emblematic of Columbus’ major problem as an organization, IMO. They don’t ever seem to play to win. Even when they sucked, they rarely even tanked with purpose. The whole organization just seems content to spin it’s wheels.

I don't buy this at all. See above, Horton and Nyquist constitute two of the top 40 or so forwards that have changed hands via UFA in the last decade. Most clubs have zero or one of that group. Jarmo has made some of the most stunning trades in the league, too. You might remember when the team supposedly went "all-in" in 2019. "Emblematic of Columbus' major problem as an organization" is just off base. The team is pretty good, would be even better if it was a destination city, nowhere can you fault Jarmo for not trying.

Well NYR needs a C next year so I’m sure rumors will pop up. 1st, Strome, Kravtsov enough ?

I don't think that fetches you Max Domi, and doesn't sniff you a #1C.

- Kravtsov is intriguing but the Jackets have three KHL forwards that are younger than him and that have been outscoring him since his hot start.
- Strome is probably not worth his contract if you don't have a Panarin to pair him with.
- The 1st is probably in that middle 10-20 picks.

I'd say this is a good package that might get you an average or slightly below average 2C.

 

[Byrral]

You included Carter, that's cute.

This thread makes my eyes bleed and the ignorance of some posters trying to substantiate their personal opinions with their powerful internet keystrokes (insults) should be thrown out with the trash.

 

[majormajor]

He forgot Anderson though. Not given the chance to bet on himself for a long term contract, take the 3 years and sit your ass down... no?

That one is on Jarmo, if the numbers Bob reported back in 2017 are accurate.

When your young scorer comes off ELC and wants to take minimum salary for a year so he can prove his worth, you let him do it, and don't say "three years or you don't play". That's how you poison the well.

 

[Byrral]

PLD has been in Columbus for a few years. He has shown himself to be a down to earth and humble young man. I would find it very hard to believe that over a few months of contract negotiations that he has suddenly turned into a selfish, malcontent, me type of person that wants out.

We will see if I'm wrong.

 

[Just Linda]

PLD has been in Columbus for a few years. He has shown himself to be a down to earth and humble young man. I would find it very hard to believe that over a few months of contract negotiations that he has suddenly turned into a selfish, malcontent, me type of person that wants out.

We will see if I'm wrong.

A player wanting out doesn't make them selfish. Take Trouba for example. Him saying 'my fiance is in medical school, I would like to not spend the majority of multiple years away from my family and future spouse, please trade me to be closer to her' isn't selfish at all. Same with PLD, if he realized that he would prefer to live elsewhere, that's not selfishness, that's a player being human.

So absolutely you are wrong even if he doesn't want out. Your comment absolutely dehumanized NHL players.

 

[Byrral]

A player wanting out doesn't make them selfish. Take Trouba for example. Him saying 'my fiance is in medical school, I would like to not spend the majority of multiple years away from my family and future spouse, please trade me to be closer to her' isn't selfish at all. Same with PLD, if he realized that he would prefer to live elsewhere, that's not selfishness, that's a player being human.

So absolutely you are wrong even if he doesn't want out. Your comment absolutely dehumanized NHL players.

This is a bunch of hypothetical trash.

I don't see PLD as that type of person. He may want out but he wouldn't go out burning bridges like this to get his way. And neither would his agent that has to deal with other NHL GMs.

 

[Just Linda]

This is a bunch of hypothetical trash.

I don't see PLD as that type of person. He may want out but he wouldn't go out burning bridges like this to get his way. And neither would his agent that has to deal with other NHL GMs.

Burning bridges? The report is that he's playing nice to help his team out as they facilitate a trade for him. He took a contract (for less than I feel he's worth too) so that he can either play or make it easier to move him. In what world has he done anything wrong?

 

[LokiDog]

PLD has been in Columbus for a few years. He has shown himself to be a down to earth and humble young man. I would find it very hard to believe that over a few months of contract negotiations that he has suddenly turned into a selfish, malcontent, me type of person that wants out.

We will see if I'm wrong.

I read something that suggested that during the contract negotiations he spoke with other teams and even though he didn’t sign an offer sheet, he realized he wanted to play somewhere else. Supposedly Columbus pushed for a long term deal and PLD pushed for short term. It said something about signing a deal that gave Columbus adequate time to move him in the right deal and not be screwed over, but not trap him there forever.

 

[Byrral]

I read something that suggested that during the contract negotiations he spoke with other teams and even though he didn’t sign an offer sheet, he realized he wanted to play somewhere else. Supposedly Columbus pushed for a long term deal and PLD pushed for short term. It said something about signing a deal that gave Columbus adequate time to move him in the right deal and not be screwed over, but not trap him there forever.

This is all good. Nothing wrong with it. Part of negotiations and his rights as an RFA. But he has no other rights under the CBA to demand anything else other than that. He doesn't get to make that choice whether he likes it or not.

I stand by my previous post.

 

[McSuper]

One for one
Laine for PLD

Why would CBJ do that ? PLD is the more complete player and a team wins with that type of player . Laine is will follow in Kovalchuk path .

 

[Just Linda]

This is all good. Nothing wrong with it. Part of negotiations and his rights as an RFA. But he has no other rights under the CBA to demand anything else other than that. He doesn't get to make that choice whether he likes it or not.

I stand by my previous post.

You shouldn't, it's a really bad take.

If he plays out his entire ELC in one city, that's 7 years. You would be pretty unreasonable to call a player selfish for not wanting to spend 7 years (or in this case 4 more years) in one city that they don't want to be in.

He has the right to ask for a trade and work with the team to make it work. Heck, he has the right not to sign with Columbus and force their hand but he went above and beyond that. He has the right to publically blast Jarmo, talk bad about the city, really tarnish the relationship, but he didn't and took the higher ground. He has rights, he chose to take a short contract instead. He hasn't acted selfish at all.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Which is dumb as all get out and a self-fulfilling problem. No player wants to go to a team that is playing with one hand self-tied behind their back most off-seasons. Competitive teams may be built through the draft but they are consummated through free agency.

That’s actually pretty emblematic of Columbus’ major problem as an organization, IMO. They don’t ever seem to play to win. Even when they sucked, they rarely even tanked with purpose. The whole organization just seems content to spin it’s wheels.

I don't know about that. Trading a first (and an additional conditional first) and two good prospects for Duchene, keeping Panarin and Bobrovsky, trading second round picks for Dzingel, and a fourth for McQuaid doesn't seem to be "spinning its wheels" to me. They also negotiated with Marner last year for an offer sheet.

And the bolded just isn't true. Who was Tampa's big Free Agent signing was Pat Maroon. The Blues' was David Perron. For the Caps it was probably Niskanen. None of these guys were the top Free Agents in their respective years. Solid players, but nothing you spend top dollar for.

I absolutely have.

You sound very insecure.

I'm sure your two nights stay at the Westin really gave you a fair judgement.

It's not insecurity to call out bullshit.

Since when did Cleveland become Columbus? Should I post tweets/pressers of players praising Cleveland or?

 

[LokiDog]

This is all good. Nothing wrong with it. Part of negotiations and his rights as an RFA. But he has no other rights under the CBA to demand anything else other than that. He doesn't get to make that choice whether he likes it or not.

I stand by my previous post.

Right, I’m just saying, it seems to support the notion that he’s a mature kid and not a me first brat who is going to sit out or make the situation ugly. It sounds like he basically said, look, ultimately I’d prefer to move on but I know how things work and I know that I’m CBJ property so I’m happy to come to work and pull my weight, but I don’t want to sign something long term. Two years gives you a lot of time to weigh potential deals and do what you feel is best for the club and keeps my options open down the road. It sounds like he understood his rights and isn’t going to be a cancer or drag ass until a deal gets done but he let his desires be known while trying to make it work for both parties. If he wanted to be selfish he could have held out, or asked for the sun and moon in negotiations. He took a deal that gives his GM a long time to get the best possible return and which makes him really easy to move.

 

[3074326]

What does this have to do with anything?

I'll give you a hint: that was a rhetorical question. Completely irrelevant video you've posted there.

 

[LokiDog]

I get the argument that Ohio isn’t a premiere destination for most athletes, but this is kind of like posting a video of someone who played for Houston and using it to say players won’t want to sign in Dallas. Completely irrelevant. I’ve been to most parts of Ohio. As with every place in the world, there are always nice neighborhoods to be found and areas within 30-60 minutes of Columbus are definitely the nicest that I’ve encountered. Columbus as a college town (OSU) is definitely far preferable to Cleveland as well.

 

[Viqsi]

Just to make a point, since some folks are probably distracted by thinking of Panarin/Bob and salivating over getting a guy for near-free...

IF PLD is traded, don't expect it at a discount. Or for it to be for spare parts.

Yes, I know, "fans never get what they want" et cetera et cetera. It's a handy rule of thumb for many cases. And yet...

• When The Former #7 forced his way out, folks swore we weren't going to get anything of value. We got a top-pairing defenseman (JJ in his prime) and a 1st.
• When Nash opted to move on and it was announced we were looking for multiple assets, so many folks insisted we weren't going to get anything near what would be needed for our rebuild. We got two #2Cs and another 1st and that set the team on the path to finally being competitive.
• When Johansen got grumpy, we insisted over and over we'd only trade him for a top-quality defenseman, and the consensus reaction was scorn and dismissal of us poor deluded homer fans. We got Seth Jones.
• When it was Saad's turn, we didn't hear about it in advance, but few would have guessed that the return would have included Artemi Panarin.
• Just a couple months ago, there was constant talk about Josh Anderson and how damn near everyone was convinced they could get him for peanuts because of his recent injury concerns "lowering his value", while we kept insisting on a #2C and getting mocked for it. We got Max Domi.

This is a trend that people don't appreciate - while we may lose top players from time to time, Columbus Wins Those Trades. We got nothing for Panarin and Bob, sure, but that's because we never had any intention of trading them - we were deliberately going all in. The closest we've gotten in the last eight years or so to losing a trade outright was the Gaborik experiment, which cost us Derick Brassard.

Given this trend, if you're looking at poaching PLD, you'd better be thinking "win-win deal". Or be prepared for your team to come out the worse for it. Because that's consistently been the case for nearly a decade.

 

[Byrral]

Burning bridges? The report is that he's playing nice to help his team out as they facilitate a trade for him. He took a contract (for less than I feel he's worth too) so that he can either play or make it easier to move him. In what world has he done anything wrong?

Sorry things get confusing/misunderstood/comes across differently than I wanted....with multiple responses throughout the thread. My point was that PLD doesn't have any options outside of what can be negotiated via the CBA as an RFA. So what he can't do is hold the CBJ hostage by asking/demanding a trade to a place "he'd rather play." And this is where this thread had turned. Suddenly he's unhappy and wants out. This is not a proven fact....just a few rumored tweets from a couple of sources.

So what I was trying to say is that PLD doesn't appear (from everything I've seen following this team) to be that type of a person. I can't see him walking into the CBJ with his agent and asking/demanding to be moved. This is not something players/agents normally do unless bridges have been burnt. I don't see anything to believe that this could have actually happened. Could it have happened that way? Sure. But I just don't see it.

 

[axlrose87]

I haven't seen any offers in this thread (excepting Dubois+ for Matthews, which I doubt most Leaf fans would entertain) that would be better than just keeping Dubois for a couple years and waiting for a better move / hope for a change of heart.

If anyone thinks that Columbus would be better off with Laine than Dubois, then they don't know a thing about the Jackets roster or John Tortorella, and probably not much about the players involved.



The only thing we know for certain is that Dubois has chafed at having to play the ultra defensive system, he wants the kind of leeway topline forwards usually get. Torts is very, very demanding.

It could be that management lowballed him, we've seen that before, but there is not enough information this time.

No issues with the locker room. He's got friends all over the team.

The city isn't especially appealing for players without families but it's not usually a turn off either.



I would take Laine over Monahan. Laine is the better scorer and neither player is a play-driver. Dubois is a play-driver though, and you just can't make your team better trading a play-driving center for a one-way winger.



Brandon Saad was disgruntled and Jarmo got Artemi Panarin for him.

Ryan Johansen was disgruntled and Jarmo got Seth Jones for him.

Your last point (where you quoted me) is an excellent point. Columbus clearly has a thoughtful and effective gm. It just sucks that he always has to deal away their stars. It is not going to hit home runs on all of them.
What he gets for Dubois will be very interesting.