TSN: Dubas on TSN2 Aug 3rd.: “We’re gonna give Rasmus and Timothy every chance to make the team”

Joey Hoser

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Jan 8, 2008
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:facepalm: so they're perfect hockey players?

No, what the f***? You said they have to fix their games, and I asked you how their games are broken. I guess you can't answer the question.

like Lillegren doesn't get shoved around too easily in his own zone? (he sure spent a lot of time getting knocked over if thats the case)
Sandin doesn't have issues against AHL teams that are populated with potential NHL'ers?(his 3rd round of the playoffs didn't expose some issues at this point?)

These are vague anecdotes that I don't really agree with.
Do you watch them at all? nobody said they sucked I just said they aren't ready for the NHL yet take a breath :soap: :surrender

Take a breath? You seem a lot more upset than I am. I just asked you to clarify your position and you got extremely defensive.
 

JT AM da real deal

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Oct 4, 2018
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Both kids have a great shot to be Leafs in the future. But they are not ready yet. Watch all games of playoff round 3 over again. I have done it and that is after watching the games live. Count number of times Sandin's passes were intercepted count them up it was over 5+ times each game of giveaways. Count number of times Lily on his butt in each game it was over 5+ times in each game behind our net. It is factual.

Forget about the Hutch game which was lost completely due Keefe putting him in net cold and Hutch giving up 2 house league goals. and he is our backup tender. a guy who sh*t da bed in his one playoff chance as our backup with Marlies. that was disgraceful.
 

ULF_55

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Both kids have a great shot to be Leafs in the future. But they are not ready yet. Watch all games of playoff round 3 over again. I have done it and that is after watching the games live. Count number of times Sandin's passes were intercepted count them up it was over 5+ times each game of giveaways. Count number of times Lily on his butt in each game it was over 5+ times in each game behind our net. It is factual.

Forget about the Hutch game which was lost completely due Keefe putting him in net cold and Hutch giving up 2 house league goals. and he is our backup tender. a guy who sh*t da bed in his one playoff chance as our backup with Marlies. that was disgraceful.

Except, time doesn't stand still.

Whoever is on the 3rd. pairing are getting sheltered minutes, not key responsibilities.
 

Gallagbi

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Jul 5, 2005
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fair enough...from watching all the Marlies games I could...in my limited opinion one more year wouldn't hurt the two of them
How much would it help them vs. NHL time? How much would it hurt the Leafs to play other options over them? Those are the questions, not whether they'll be hurt by staying down .
 

TheGoldenJet

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I agree. Sandin looked like he was ready based on late season play and then crazy great 1st and 2nd round playoff play. Then we all saw in 3rd round wow he can't make same outlets when playing against a team with NHL level speed and gap control systems. I guess some people will look at it and say well there are 2 or 3 teams in AHL where he can continue to develop against but against most AHL teams he is wasting his time. But overall he is better off over developing in AHL then struggling in the NHL.
Lily got better as season progressed and his defensive game has improved. My issue with his game is even though he looks more muscular now he is still too easily moved off the puck in his own end and on his butt. I don't even care that he adds nothing in the attacking end. He is not dominating at the AHL level so like Sandin he needs to play more hockey and he needs more game time developing his offensive game as he has the skating and speed to do it. The tools are there. and quite frankly Keefe needs to be told to give him the opportunity. Sandin does not need to get it all.

Good post, I agree 100%.
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

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Jun 17, 2010
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They will be rookies until they play. So call them up in 7-8 years when the team is not a contender?

C'mon. This makes zero sense logically on any level.

No i didn't say that, if you read my previous posts you'd know that.

What I said was this year the team is clearly going all in to win the cup, based on what they have up front and what that did on the back end they are all in this year this isn't the time to put Sandin and/or Lilly in the lineup.

That is next year when 2 of Ceci Barrie and Muzzin are likely gone, then you put Sandin and/or Lilly in the lineup because there will be room.

For now I'd go with veteran talent
 

ULF_55

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No i didn't say that, if you read my previous posts you'd know that.

What I said was this year the team is clearly going all in to win the cup, based on what they have up front and what that did on the back end they are all in this year this isn't the time to put Sandin and/or Lilly in the lineup.

That is next year when 2 of Ceci Barrie and Muzzin are likely gone, then you put Sandin and/or Lilly in the lineup because there will be room.

For now I'd go with veteran talent

Age is irrelevant to the discussion as they're all legal age, and can legally play in the NHL.

If Hollowell and Sandin are the 5th. and 6th. best defenders in camp, that's who I want playing on the 3rd. pairing.

Hopefully no one is playing because they're older.
 

deletethis

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With regards to making a team from your preseason performance, I have a thought about it. No rookie really should make a team based solely on his preseason performance. The rookie has to already be on the team's radar first. What should happen is the team has already earmarked the rookie as a starter before training camp then it's up to the rookie to live up to that expectation in the preseason. If the rookie falters, it should be a sign that it's time to fall back on Plan B at least to start the season. That's where it appears both Sandin and Liljegren are this fall. Both can make the team, and start, if they handle the challenge in the preseason.
 
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Nithoniniel

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With regards to making a team from your preseason performance, I have a thought about it. No rookie really should make a team based solely on his preseason performance. The rookie has to already be on the team's radar first. What should happen is the team has already earmarked the rookie as a starter before training camp then it's up to the rookie to live up to that expectation in the preseason. If the rookie falters, it should be a sign that it's time to fall back on Plan B at least to start the season. That's where it appears both Sandin and Liljegren are this fall. Both can make the team, and start, if they handle the challenge in the preseason.
Good point. I've always said that you earn your place with your performance last season. Preseason is valuable because it can show if there's been significant development over the summer, and as a gauge for how last season's development looks at the NHL level. So someone like Liljegren might have earned a spot with his second half last season, unless preseason shows that he's struggling to bring that game to the NHL.
 

zeke

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Mar 14, 2005
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With regards to making a team from your preseason performance, I have a thought about it. No rookie really should make a team based solely on his preseason performance. The rookie has to already be on the team's radar first. What should happen is the team has already earmarked the rookie as a starter before training camp then it's up to the rookie to live up to that expectation in the preseason. If the rookie falters, it should be a sign that it's time to fall back on Plan B at least to start the season. That's where it appears both Sandin and Liljegren are this fall. Both can make the team, and start, if they handle the challenge in the preseason.

Well, if we based things on preseason, both Sandin and Liljegren would have made the team out of camp last year.
 

ULF_55

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Good point. I've always said that you earn your place with your performance last season. Preseason is valuable because it can show if there's been significant development over the summer, and as a gauge for how last season's development looks at the NHL level. So someone like Liljegren might have earned a spot with his second half last season, unless preseason shows that he's struggling to bring that game to the NHL.

Geez, was Kaberle ever underrated.

Yes, as I said time does not stand still and 4 months can be a huge difference when you're 20 and perhaps when you're 39.

Changes can happen between the ears as well, when you get out of the swamp for a bit you can see where the gators are.
 

JayfromNB1219

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No, what the ****? You said they have to fix their games, and I asked you how their games are broken. I guess you can't answer the question.



These are vague anecdotes that I don't really agree with.


Take a breath? You seem a lot more upset than I am. I just asked you to clarify your position and you got extremely defensive.

Nothing defensive at all lol, just tired of people skimming what I am saying and not catching the drift then coming back at me with BS lol
Lillegren needs to play a full season healthy (or at least 3/4 of one) if he can't stand the rigors of the AHL schedule think about how easily he will break down in the NHL where the guys are literally trying to remove his head form his shoulders.
Sandin is ready for the NHL offensively in a sheltered role of course, but his defensive zone play is not at the level it needs to be to be a full time NHL defenseman...now there is always a chance both guys have made HUGE gains in the off season, but if they are still very similar to who they were at the end of last season then they could both do with one more year of fine tuning
 

LEAFANFORLIFE23

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Age is irrelevant to the discussion as they're all legal age, and can legally play in the NHL.

If Hollowell and Sandin are the 5th. and 6th. best defenders in camp, that's who I want playing on the 3rd. pairing.

Hopefully no one is playing because they're older.

If you want 2 rookies on the bottom pair you are asking for trouble I'd rather have players with experthat know what they are doing out there.

I fully expect a couple of veteran guys to get PTO's to camp you can't have Rielly, Barrie, Muzzin Ceci as your top 4 and then have not just 1 but 2 100%completely raw rookies on the bottom pair that is asking for trouble
 
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ULF_55

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If you want 2 rookies on the bottom pair you are asking for trouble I'd rather have players with experthat know what they are doing out there.

I fully expect a couple of veteran guys to get PTO's to camp you can't have Rielly, Barrie, Muzzin Ceci as your top 4 and then have not just 1 but 2 100%completely raw rookies on the bottom pair that is asking for trouble

You can have all the experienced inept defenders you want, I'll go with the better players.
 

Joey Hoser

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Nothing defensive at all lol, just tired of people skimming what I am saying and not catching the drift then coming back at me with BS lol

Like this?

":facepalm: so they're perfect hockey players?"

Lillegren needs to play a full season healthy (or at least 3/4 of one) if he can't stand the rigors of the AHL schedule think about how easily he will break down

If he can't stand the rigors then another year in the AHL isn't going to do anything to change that. And why does he need a full healthy season? What if he tweaks an ankle, misses a couple weeks, and then is fine? Why does that mean he can't play in the NHL?

in the NHL where the guys are literally trying to remove his head form his shoulders.

It's not the 80's anymore. Nobody headhunts anymore and suspensions are handed out like crazy for doing so. Even if that wasn't the case, I'm still not buying that he's some frail little weakling who can't take it.

Sandin is ready for the NHL offensively in a sheltered role of course, but his defensive zone play is not at the level it needs to be to be a full time NHL defenseman...now there is always a chance both guys have made HUGE gains in the off season, but if they are still very similar to who they were at the end of last season then they could both do with one more year of fine tuning

This really isn't in line with the rest of your posts. You've been saying that they have to go back because they aren't ready because of X and Y, and then your last paragraph says they might be ready. Which is it?
 
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JayfromNB1219

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Mar 27, 2019
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Like this?

":facepalm: so they're perfect hockey players?"



If he can't stand the rigors then another year in the AHL isn't going to do anything to change that. And why does he need a full healthy season? What if he tweaks an ankle, misses a couple weeks, and then is fine? Why does that mean he can't play in the NHL?



It's not the 80's anymore. Nobody headhunts anymore and suspensions are handed out like crazy for doing so. Even if that wasn't the case, I'm still not buying that he's some frail little weakling who can't take it.



This really isn't in line with the rest of your posts. You've been saying that they have to go back because they aren't ready because of X and Y, and then your last paragraph says they might be ready. Which is it?

1) yes that was a response to you nothing defensive but with your comment it was a logical response
2)obviously if he only misses a couple weeks thats no big deal...good god man some common sense goes a long way
3)if they haven't made significant strides in their play then yes I think they should start in the AHL what was so difficult to understand?

I feel like you're just trolling me at this point, intentionally taking a piece here and there in order to make a comment without taking the entire statement into account...that's your prerogative my dude it's all good
 

Joey Hoser

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1) yes that was a response to you nothing defensive but with your comment it was a logical response

No it wasn't. I asked you what was wrong with their games and what they had to work on, and you responded with that BS. It's also exactly the thing you complained about when you said:

"just tired of people skimming what I am saying and not catching the drift then coming back at me with BS".

And you make no sense. You say they aren't ready and have to go back and are arguing with everyone over this, and then you say they may make the team, which is all that anyone else is saying.
 

JayfromNB1219

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Mar 27, 2019
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New Brunswick
No it wasn't. I asked you what was wrong with their games and what they had to work on, and you responded with that BS. It's also exactly the thing you complained about when you said:

"just tired of people skimming what I am saying and not catching the drift then coming back at me with BS".

And you make no sense. You say they aren't ready and have to go back and are arguing with everyone over this, and then you say they may make the team, which is all that anyone else is saying.

Ok final comment on this one for me lol
I think they SHOULD start in the AHL unless there HAS BEEN significant IMPROVEMENT in the off season
IF there has been SIGNIFICANT improvement then yes they should make the Maple Leafs (I have already told you where I think the issues are)
Sandin: Defensive zone coverage and zone exits
Lillegren-Getting stronger on his feet in the defensive zone
IF Lillegren can stay HEALTHY (we aren't talking minor injuries here) and he continues to improve then yes he should be in the NHL (half a year maybe depending on the play of the 3rd pairing on the Leafs)
Sandin should spend one more year in the AHL being used similarly to how Lillegren was used this year (focus on D zone and turning him into a 2 way defender)

on a side not funny you are the only guy who hasn't understood what I was saying...but again it's all good man I hope I cleared it up a little for you as I wasn't trying to be confusing
 
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TDotMassive

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Jul 13, 2018
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Ya we should probably give them a shot. I mean we have multiple 1sts in play this and last year.

Jake lost 1st not trading
Jake Muzzin paid 1st + loss if not signed
Barrie is a lost 1st+ if not signed
Marleau spent 1st to rid

Ideally I would want Lilj/Sandin to make the team, Muzzin traded for 1st, Barrie signed and Gardiner on a short term signed.

That maximizes our expenses and asset values.
Dude are you mad... so, right before we make a run at our first potential cup in a half century, you would ideally trade Muzzin... arguably our most reliable D and only real physical presence on the blue line? In what universe does that make any sense? In case you haven't got the text, we are in win-now mode! WIN-NOW!
 

kb

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Aug 28, 2009
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Liljegren is better than any of the fodder brought in. Let him play and make his mistakes in October. He'll either adjust, or they can play the fodder.
 

gravyface

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Jun 22, 2010
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My guess is that one of Sandin or Liljegren gets 9 games out of camp, but will be sent down after. They may make an appearance again in the spring depending on how the Marlies do.
 

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