Dubas needs to own up to some of these issues

[The CyNick]

So the guy who they didnt keep on was making major decisions and the young kid was left running the farm team. And which cornerstone pieces? Obvious picks like Matthew's and Marner? Those were slam dunk selections.

Matthews seemed like a slam dunk, but as I pointed out, it wasn't a unanimous selection by hockey people. Feel free to argue the point with Bob McKenzie, unless you think he's full of it.

Marner was in no way a slam dunk. Many teams had him low in the top ten. I wouldn't even say he was the consensus pick here. Most people at the time we creaming themselves over Strome and trying to trade up. Except me of course who knew he would be a bust based on where he was drafted. A ton of others wanted a D. So yes, you're very good at discrediting a good decision that looks obvious in hindsight, but unless Lou had a Delorian in his garage, I don't think the call was that easy to make. He trusted Hunter and Hunter hit a homerun.

 

[Mr Hockey]

He definitely made some positive moves (most of which happened during his first 10ish months of getting the job). But a lot of his decisions during the next two years left a lot to be desired.

Hers the full list of decisions
The Complete Reign of Lou Lamoriello[/QUOTE

I can already question Dubas and its only been half a season.

• back goalie situation
• Levio trade
• Nylander negotiation
• Matthews contract
• Muzzin trade
• draft picks
• handing ELC for no reason

 

[BertCorbeau]

He had the final call on drafting Pal.

I don't think I've ever said I give him zero credit for Tavares, just that it's very close to zero. But as a mod, I'm sure you are above baiting and false claims to fit your narrative...

The GM was certainly low on the list of decision points for the player. See his social media post of his Leafs (not Dubas) bedsheets as a kid for proof. Also see his wife, his family, his respect for the coach and the young core of stars as further evidence. None of which had anything to do with our young GM.

You're going to accuse me of baiting when you're trying to spin "very close to zero" is drastically different than "zero" in the context of this argument?

Ok then champ.

Matthews seemed like a slam dunk, but as I pointed out, it wasn't a unanimous selection by hockey people. Feel free to argue the point with Bob McKenzie, unless you think he's full of it.

Marner was in no way a slam dunk. Many teams had him low in the top ten. I wouldn't even say he was the consensus pick here. Most people at the time we creaming themselves over Strome and trying to trade up. Except me of course who knew he would be a bust based on where he was drafted. A ton of others wanted a D. So yes, you're very good at discrediting a good decision that looks obvious in hindsight, but unless Lou had a Delorian in his garage, I don't think the call was that easy to make. He trusted Hunter and Hunter hit a homerun.

That awkward moment when you realize that Lou Lam was hired after the 2015 draft when Marner was drafted.

(On July 23rd, 2015)

Lou Lamoriello named new Maple Leafs GM - Sportsnet.ca

 

[Kiwi]

He definitely made some positive moves (most of which happened during his first 10ish months of getting the job). But a lot of his decisions during the next two years left a lot to be desired.

Hers the full list of decisions
The Complete Reign of Lou Lamoriello

I thought he handed out some bad contracts but the Andersen and Dion trades were solid and he didn't **** up any top 5 picks

I'd say he's average or just below, there's also a lot of Monday morning QB going on as well

A lot of people were in favour of the Marleau contract at the time, I should know I argued against it

 

[Menzinger]

You're going to accuse me of baiting when you're trying to spin "very close to zero" is drastically different than "zero" in the context of this argument?

Ok then champ.



That awkward moment when you realize that Lou Lam was hired after the 2015 draft when Marner was drafted.

(On July 23rd, 2015)

Lou Lamoriello named new Maple Leafs GM - Sportsnet.ca

Lol, thats pretty embarrassing.

And not to mention the idea that JT was a “slam dunk” doesn’t hold up to theeast bit of scrutiny. I mean aside from tangible proof from the mouth of the player himself and journalist reports of the Leafs sales pitch playing a major role in the signing, Toronto has historically been horrible at attracting big names free agents (Childhood Leafs fan Stamkos rejecting the offer just a season prior)

 

[Mr Hockey]

If Tavares wasn't signed I doubt anybody would care about Marleau's contract.

 

[Menzinger]

I thought he handed out some bad contracts but the Andersen and Dion trades were solid and he didn't **** up any top 5 picks

I'd say he's average or just below, there's also a lot of Monday morning QB going on as well

A lot of people were in favour of the Marleau contract at the time, I should know I argued against it

Yeah, average is a good way of putting it.

Honestly if Lou had kept acting as he did during his first year with the team I’d be fine if they had kept him on, but unfortunately he didn’t quite keep it up.

I’d say he was ultimately the right person for that transitionary phase of the team to get the early stages of the rebuild out of the way but not the right fot for the team looking for the next step.

 

[Menzinger]

If Tavares wasn't signed I doubt anybody would care about Marleau's contract.

It certainly would be less of an issue.

Though it also wasn’t as if it was a secret that the next couple seasons after was going to have some big names UFAs (JT, Karlsson ect). And even if the Leafs weren’t going to be up against the cap it’s hard to justifying spending so much money on a 40ish point guy

Edit: wrong word

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Matthews seemed like a slam dunk, but as I pointed out, it wasn't a unanimous selection by hockey people. Feel free to argue the point with Bob McKenzie, unless you think he's full of it.

Marner was in no way a slam dunk. Many teams had him low in the top ten. I wouldn't even say he was the consensus pick here. Most people at the time we creaming themselves over Strome and trying to trade up. Except me of course who knew he would be a bust based on where he was drafted. A ton of others wanted a D. So yes, you're very good at discrediting a good decision that looks obvious in hindsight, but unless Lou had a Delorian in his garage, I don't think the call was that easy to make. He trusted Hunter and Hunter hit a homerun.

The media, almost every draft, does this guy vs this guy for the #1 pick. No NHL team was going to take Laine there. That's ridiculous to even speculate on. And from what I remember, our fanbase was split on Marner or Strome with a small percentage wanting Hanifin. And I'll gladly discredit you, you're the most arrogant person on our board. Oh, by the way, strome has 35 points in 36 games since going to Chicago. Hes 21. But you knew he'd be a bust.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Yeah, average is a good way of putting it.

Honestly if Lou had kept acting as he did during his first year with the team I’d be fine if they had kept him on, but unfortunately he didn’t quite keep it up.

I’d say he was ultimately the right person for that transitionary phase of the team to get the early stages of the rebuild out of the way but not the right fot for the team looking for the next step.

Louis was great until he got in his own way. Trading those 2nd rounders for 4th line centers was baffling.

 

[Mr Hockey]

It certainly would be less of an issue.

Though it also wasn’t as if it was a secret that the next couple seasons after we’re going to have some big names UFAs (JT, Karlsson ect). And even if the Leafs weren’t going to be up against the cap it’s hard to justifying spending so much money on a 40ish point guy

Im pretty sure you know why Marleau was signed, no teams sit around and do nothing just in case a big UFA might sign down the road, your reaching lol

 

[Mr Hockey]

Louis was great until he got in his own way. Trading those 2nd rounders for 4th line centers was baffling.

it was to give the team some veteran help and experience, going into the playoffs, you really struggled to understand that?

 

[thewave]

it was to give the team some veteran help and experience, going into the playoffs, you really struggled to understand that?

Its a big bunch of BS. Boyle was statistically no better than Goat that year. Not a damn lick of difference. Pleks did not fit on this team until Babcock finally used him against his nemesis, Bergeron. Between the two, maybe only Pleks gave us a shot at a game 7 where Boyle did SFA.

You give a Marlies player a shot and they play with adrenaline the whole series. Smart teams and managers do that with the best prospects. Not the Leafs

 

[Antropovsky]

I can already question Dubas and its only been half a season.

• back goalie situation
• Levio trade
• Nylander negotiation
• Matthews contract
• Muzzin trade
• draft picks
• handing ELC for no reason

Burke gave the broll-dozer an ElC immediately after his first camp, Idon’t think it’s possible that SDA ends up a worse prospect.

Point is, I’m sure a lot of very experienced gms have been quick to signing a pick.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Its a big bunch of BS. Boyle was statistically no better than Goat that year. Not a damn lick of difference. Pleks did not fit on this team until Babcock finally used him against his nemesis, Bergeron. Between the two, maybe only Pleks gave us a shot at a game 7 where Boyle did SFA.

Do you think they were brought in for offense, cmon now, Boyle was a beauty while he was here, also

 

[Man Bear Pig]

it was to give the team some veteran help and experience, going into the playoffs, you really struggled to understand that?

Yes, I struggle to understand why, a team playing way over its head, needs to toss away a 2nd round pick for a handful of games from Brian Boyle. Its asset management and Lou was pretty awful with 2nds. How can anyone defend those moves? Maybe you struggle understanding that a 2nd round pick is worth more than 1 round of a 4th line center.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Do you think they were brought in for offense, cmon now, Boyle was a beauty while he was here, also

In that season especially it made no sense. The "vet presence" did what exactly? You bring in vets to push your team over the top. That team was clearly miles away from contention.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Yes, I struggle to understand why, a team playing way over its head, needs to toss away a 2nd round pick for a handful of games from Brian Boyle. Its asset management and Lou was pretty awful with 2nds. How can anyone defend those moves? Maybe you struggle understanding that a 2nd round pick is worth more than 1 round of a 4th line center.

The team felt the playoff experience would be of greater value to the Leafs young core than a 2nd pick would be ... its not hard to figure out if you think about it

 

[thewave]

Do you think they were brought in for offense, cmon now, Boyle was a beauty while he was here, also

Neither did anything meaningful. You know who did? Kapanen.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Neither did anything meaningful. You know who did? Kapanen.

You don't know that, you were not in the game, bench, room, plane, etc.

anyways, im moving on ...

 

[thewave]

You don't know that, you were not in the game, bench, room, plane, etc.

How many series did we win? 0? They did nothing meaningful. I am old enough to know the team never played better or worse. Its the 4th line ffs.

 

[ACC1224]

Do you think they were brought in for offense, cmon now, Boyle was a beauty while he was here, also

Yeah was no big deal.
Even knowing the outcome they make that trade every time.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

The team felt the playoff experience would be of greater value to the Leafs young core than a 2nd pick would be ... its not hard to figure out if you think about it

They were going to make the playoffs. We just saw Dubas flip 2 former 2nd round picks and a late first for a top end dman signed beyond this season. I'm trying to figure out how you're trying to justify it. Lou tossed away picks. At best in the year he got Boyle the team made it to the 2nd round. Bring in guys like Muzzin, not Boyle and Plekanec. Solutions beyond the current season.

 

[The CyNick]

You're going to accuse me of baiting when you're trying to spin "very close to zero" is drastically different than "zero" in the context of this argument?

Ok then champ.



That awkward moment when you realize that Lou Lam was hired after the 2015 draft when Marner was drafted.

(On July 23rd, 2015)

Lou Lamoriello named new Maple Leafs GM - Sportsnet.ca

You're right I got the timeline messed up. It was a Hunter call. Point still stands Lou was great.

 

[thewave]

They were going to make the playoffs. We just saw Dubas flip 2 former 2nd round picks and a late first for a top end dman signed beyond this season. I'm trying to figure out how you're trying to justify it. Lou tossed away picks. At best in the year he got Boyle the team made it to the 2nd round. Bring in guys like Muzzin, not Boyle and Plekanec. Solutions beyond the current season.

Muzzin was a good trade. Dubas is way better at trades than contracts. He should probably work that magic on JG ASAP