Dubas needs to own up to some of these issues

[ShaneFalco]

He can do no wrong apparently

 

[BertCorbeau]

Fixing the D wasn't a huge priority then as it was once we signed Tavares. The Tavares signing bumped us from a developing team into a contender, you can't blame Lou for the D and Dubas is fixing it now

... the defense has always been the more pressing priority, even going back before Tavares was signed.

 

[Notsince67]

Imo the league has been over due for a contract rebalancing for a while. Middle tier guys like Marleau have maybe 1/4 of the on ice impact of the main guys yet still make 50% of the money.

I’d agree Matthews will be looking at a raise in 5 years but by then it’ll be more of the norm.

That might be true but Matthew's becomes the market setter...not the market follower

 

[Mr Hockey]

... the defense has always been the more pressing priority, even going back before Tavares was signed.

The focus was on developing Matthews, Marner, Willie, etc and turning Rielly into a #1 d'man and getting a #1 goalie. Our D was good enough pre-Tavares. Muzzin was pretty costly, not so easy to fix a defence

 

[Pi]

Does he need to own up to the issue with coaching? Definitely.

He got a top pairing D and he's being played like a #5D right now lol.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Our D was good enough pre-Tavares

How do you figure!?!?
This looks like praising Lou for being Lou without any substance
Oh but Muzzin was costly......

 

[Mr Hockey]

How do you figure!?!?
This looks like praising Lou for being Lou without any substance
Oh but Muzzin was costly......

Cause we were a developing team trending upwards and our best players were three 20-year-olds. Even though it was obvious our D group needed to be fixed, it wasn't a must do now thing and it could been done over the next couple years. Dubas started by bringing in Muzzin

 

[ShaneFalco]

Does he need to own up to the issue with coaching? Definitely.

He got a top pairing D and he's being played like a #5D right now lol.

And a 39 year old who clearly needs a rest, on the top line.....because #vet

 

[The CyNick]

What are you talking about? Have you actually looked at Lou's tenure after the salary cap was implemented? It's abysmal, basically all around.

Yes he won a cup with the Devils, but most of the core was in place prior to the cap in 04/05.

He turned our team around.

Before him we were a DISASTER in net. He sorted that out in quick order and spent very little to do it. Less in comparison to what our young GM spent to get yet another LHD in our lineup instead of a RHD which is what was really needed.

He oversaw the drafting of franchise players in Marner and Matthews.

He signed key RFAs like Rielly and Kadri to team friendly deals that we are still benefiting from without having the negotiations disrupt the team. The young GM has butchered his RFA signings and still has a few to go.

Traded Dion and got assets back and didn't have to retain salary. Our young GM traded an elite goal scorer in Kessel with more value and had to eat salary, which continues to hurt us to this day.

He saw us improve in the standings every year. This year we are trending to show no improvement in the standings. Meanwhile the new team he went for will likely show dramatic improvement in standings when expectations were for the team to be a bottom feeder.

I could go on.

 

[The CyNick]

Lou is pretty well known as a great goalie GM.

We had the same hole at RD when Lou was in charge. He didn't fix it. And this isn't to disparage him, he did a great job while he was here but he's not a magician.

Our rookie President should have given the veteran GM more time. Almost every move he made was a homerun. I can all but guarantee Matthews and Nylander would have been signed to cheaper deals with Lou at the helm. I would guess over the summer he would have addressed needs just like he did for the Isles.

 

[Durrr]

He turned our team around.

Before him we were a DISASTER in net. He sorted that out in quick order and spent very little to do it. Less in comparison to what our young GM spent to get yet another LHD in our lineup instead of a RHD which is what was really needed.

He oversaw the drafting of franchise players in Marner and Matthews.

He signed key RFAs like Rielly and Kadri to team friendly deals that we are still benefiting from without having the negotiations disrupt the team. The young GM has butchered his RFA signings and still has a few to go.

Traded Dion and got assets back and didn't have to retain salary. Our young GM traded an elite goal scorer in Kessel with more value and had to eat salary, which continues to hurt us to this day.

He saw us improve in the standings every year. This year we are trending to show no improvement in the standings. Meanwhile the new team he went for will likely show dramatic improvement in standings when expectations were for the team to be a bottom feeder.

I could go on.

If you read what I said, I fully agree. It's his cap management and ability to maintain a team in Jersey during the cap era that had not been good.

He's always been fantastic with scouting, trades and development, but if you actually look at the moves he made as GM after Jersey's cup run, seems like he wasn't able to adapt to the changing game and cap system. Just a mans opinion.

 

[The CyNick]

If you read what I said, I fully agree. It's his cap management and ability to maintain a team in Jersey during the cap era that had not been good.

He's always been fantastic with scouting, trades and development, but if you actually look at the moves he made as GM after Jersey's cup run, seems like he wasn't able to adapt to the changing game and cap system. Just a mans opinion.

From what I recall the team he built here was in the cap era. He left a 105 point team that was trending up. The new guy has flatlined us. Meanwhile Lou is potentially headed for a division title and a 20+ point turnaround. Also in the cap era.

One man giving facts

 

[Menzinger]

From what I recall the team he built here was in the cap era. He left a 105 point team that was trending up. The new guy has flatlined us. Meanwhile Lou is potentially headed for a division title and a 20+ point turnaround. Also in the cap era.

One man giving facts

Fairly absurd to claim Lou “built” the Leafs.

The best players on the team were either drafted before his hiring or were top 5 picks (unless you genuinely believe another GM wouldn’t have taken Matthews lol).

After Andersen (which he deserves credit for) his biggest personnel additions were Zaitsev and Marleau....

 

[Durrr]

From what I recall the team he built here was in the cap era. He left a 105 point team that was trending up. The new guy has flatlined us. Meanwhile Lou is potentially headed for a division title and a 20+ point turnaround. Also in the cap era.

One man giving facts

"The new guy has flatlined us". lol jeez that's just plain ridiculous.

But sure, lets take 2-3 years of inheriting a bottom feeder with a #1D already drafted, a 4th overall and 1st overall draft pick, and compare that to 14 years of not being able to ice a contender in New Jersey. Even the year they made the finals, no one even thought they had a chance of winning vs the Kings. Clarkson with 30+ goals ring a bell?

You're taking very circumstantial bits of information and using them to craft the story you want to tell, and it's painfully obvious what your bias is when you talk about a team that's trending around the top 2-5 spot in the league as a "flat lining" or neutral team.

I'm giving Lou credit from some of the good moves he did as the Leafs GM, but again, you need to view what he actually accomplished objectively, because making moves like drafting Matthews/Marner and the team improving every season during his tenure was unavoidable with the players we have being in the early 20s age bracket.

You realize that Dubas was an assistant GM on this team during that time right? How do you know some of these moves you are talking about weren't his own doing? That's why this argument is so ridiculous, you're talking about the man who signed the contract that was so bad and lopsided, the league had to fine the club for mismanaging their assets that poorly.

 

[The CyNick]

Fairly absurd to claim Lou “built” the Leafs.

The best players on the team were either drafted before his hiring or were top 5 picks (unless you genuinely believe another GM wouldn’t have taken Matthews lol).

After Andersen (which he deserves credit for) his biggest personnel additions were Zaitsev and Marleau....

I think most would have taken Matthews, but I do recall McKenzie at the time saying in his pre draft interviews, some scouts had Laine #1. This also ignores that Lou and Hunter selected Marner, which outside of McDavid is the best player in that draft class.

I am happy to give Burkie his due credit for building this team. But Lou had the biggest impact no doubt.

 

[The CyNick]

"The new guy has flatlined us". lol jeez that's just plain ridiculous.

But sure, lets take 2-3 years of inheriting a bottom feeder with a #1D already drafted, a 4th overall and 1st overall draft pick, and compare that to 14 years of not being able to ice a contender in New Jersey. Even the year they made the finals, no one even thought they had a chance of winning vs the Kings. Clarkson with 30+ goals ring a bell?

You're taking very circumstantial bits of information and using them to craft the story you want to tell, and it's painfully obvious what your bias is when you talk about a team that's trending around the top 2-5 spot in the league as a "flat lining" or neutral team.

I'm giving Lou credit from some of the good moves he did as the Leafs GM, but again, you need to view what he actually accomplished objectively, because making moves like drafting Matthews/Marner and the team improving every season during his tenure was unavoidable with the players we have being in the early 20s age bracket.

You realize that Dubas was an assistant GM on this team during that time right? How do you know some of these moves you are talking about weren't his own doing? That's why this argument is so ridiculous, you're talking about the man who signed the contract that was so bad and lopsided, the league had to fine the club for mismanaging their assets that poorly.

Because I know the history of the team.

Dubas and Hunter were co-GMs. Hunter was running the draft, Dubas was handling trades. This was widely reported (look it up if you don't believe me). Dubas was allowed to make one key trade and then almost immediately Lou was brought in. Hunter continued to keep his drafting position and with Lou's blessing brought in several cornerstone pieces. Dubas was relegated to the Marlies where he had no control over Leafs player personnel decisions.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Fairly absurd to claim Lou “built” the Leafs.

The best players on the team were either drafted before his hiring or were top 5 picks (unless you genuinely believe another GM wouldn’t have taken Matthews lol).

After Andersen (which he deserves credit for) his biggest personnel additions were Zaitsev and Marleau....

I'll give Lou all the credit in the world for the way he overhauled the way this team is managed, and that should have earned him a lasting legacy here.

But as far as the on-ice product goes, yeah, what you said.

 

[ToDavid]

Our rookie President should have given the veteran GM more time. Almost every move he made was a homerun. I can all but guarantee Matthews and Nylander would have been signed to cheaper deals with Lou at the helm. I would guess over the summer he would have addressed needs just like he did for the Isles.

Lou had a year to sign Nylander to a deal and didn't get anything done.

You can't guarantee anything, no one can. There's no point in arguing about what a different GM could have done because we have literally zero way of knowing.

 

[BertCorbeau]

He turned our team around.

Before him we were a DISASTER in net. He sorted that out in quick order and spent very little to do it. Less in comparison to what our young GM spent to get yet another LHD in our lineup instead of a RHD which is what was really needed.

He oversaw the drafting of franchise players in Marner and Matthews.

He signed key RFAs like Rielly and Kadri to team friendly deals that we are still benefiting from without having the negotiations disrupt the team. The young GM has butchered his RFA signings and still has a few to go.

Traded Dion and got assets back and didn't have to retain salary. Our young GM traded an elite goal scorer in Kessel with more value and had to eat salary, which continues to hurt us to this day.

He saw us improve in the standings every year. This year we are trending to show no improvement in the standings. Meanwhile the new team he went for will likely show dramatic improvement in standings when expectations were for the team to be a bottom feeder.

I could go on.

Gives Lou credit for drafting Matthews and Marner

Doesn't give Dubas any credit for signing Tavares.

Classic.

 

[ToDavid]

He turned our team around.

Before him we were a DISASTER in net. He sorted that out in quick order and spent very little to do it. Less in comparison to what our young GM spent to get yet another LHD in our lineup instead of a RHD which is what was really needed.

He oversaw the drafting of franchise players in Marner and Matthews.

He signed key RFAs like Rielly and Kadri to team friendly deals that we are still benefiting from without having the negotiations disrupt the team. The young GM has butchered his RFA signings and still has a few to go.

Traded Dion and got assets back and didn't have to retain salary. Our young GM traded an elite goal scorer in Kessel with more value and had to eat salary, which continues to hurt us to this day.

He saw us improve in the standings every year. This year we are trending to show no improvement in the standings. Meanwhile the new team he went for will likely show dramatic improvement in standings when expectations were for the team to be a bottom feeder.

I could go on.

I'll say it again, I'm very happy with what Lou did while he was here, but your rose coloured glasses are intense.

 

[Kiwi]

Fairly absurd to claim Lou “built” the Leafs.

The best players on the team were either drafted before his hiring or were top 5 picks (unless you genuinely believe another GM wouldn’t have taken Matthews lol).

After Andersen (which he deserves credit for) his biggest personnel additions were Zaitsev and Marleau....

I give him a lot of credit for the Dion trade as well, that looks ******* amazing right now

It's not a personnel addition but I'd call it addition by subtraction

 

[The CyNick]

Lou had a year to sign Nylander to a deal and didn't get anything done.

You can't guarantee anything, no one can. There's no point in arguing about what a different GM could have done because we have literally zero way of knowing.

My understanding of the situation is that Lou was told not to negotiate. I believe Shanny thought Dubas was this skillful negotiator. He likely realized that was a mistake after the nylander and Matthews deals were finalized.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Because I know the history of the team.

Dubas and Hunter were co-GMs. Hunter was running the draft, Dubas was handling trades. This was widely reported (look it up if you don't believe me). Dubas was allowed to make one key trade and then almost immediately Lou was brought in. Hunter continued to keep his drafting position and with Lou's blessing brought in several cornerstone pieces. Dubas was relegated to the Marlies where he had no control over Leafs player personnel decisions.

So the guy who they didnt keep on was making major decisions and the young kid was left running the farm team. And which cornerstone pieces? Obvious picks like Matthew's and Marner? Those were slam dunk selections.

 

[The CyNick]

Gives Lou credit for drafting Matthews and Marner

Doesn't give Dubas any credit for signing Tavares.

Classic.

He had the final call on drafting Pal.

I don't think I've ever said I give him zero credit for Tavares, just that it's very close to zero. But as a mod, I'm sure you are above baiting and false claims to fit your narrative...

The GM was certainly low on the list of decision points for the player. See his social media post of his Leafs (not Dubas) bedsheets as a kid for proof. Also see his wife, his family, his respect for the coach and the young core of stars as further evidence. None of which had anything to do with our young GM.

 

[Menzinger]

I give him a lot of credit for the Dion trade as well, that looks ******* amazing right now

It's not a personnel addition but I'd call it addition by subtraction

He definitely made some positive moves (most of which happened during his first 10ish months of getting the job). But a lot of his decisions during the next two years left a lot to be desired.

Hers the full list of decisions
The Complete Reign of Lou Lamoriello