Dryden: No head hits - no excuses

[Noldo]

Ken Dryden presents in his new book Game Change strong opinion:

If the few hits to the head that exist in the game would be called penalties, with no exceptions, no matter whether the hit is intentional or accidental, the game and the enjoyment derived from the game would not be changed by much.

Some might recognize Dryden as a key member of one of the greatest dynasties ever stepped on ice, a first ballot Hall-of-Famer, practically unanimously top-10 goaltender in the history of the hockey and a keen observer and a student of the game. Definitely a figure who should understand the game and the culture surrounding it.

Dryden challenges the commissioner Gary Bettman to act. Does Dryden's view has any future?

Globe and Mail article

Click to read more...

 

[sandysan]

Ken Dryden presents in his new book Game Change strong opinion:

If the few hits to the head that exist in the game would be called penalties, with no exceptions, no matter whether the hit is intentional or accidental, the game and the enjoyment derived from the game would not be changed by much.

Some might recognize Dryden as a key member of one of the greatest dynasties ever stepped on ice, a first ballot Hall-of-Famer, practically unanimously top-10 goaltender in the history of the hockey and a keen observer and a student of the game. Definitely a figure who should understand the game and the culture surrounding it.

Dryden challenges the commissioner Gary Bettman to act. Does Dryden's view has any future?

Globe and Mail article

I heard him shilling his book on CBC radio where he spoke a lot of Steve montador. Not impressed.

He seems to be under the mistaken beleif that Garry bettman can implement any change he likes by Fiat. Does he not recall the realignment fiasco?

If you are interested you can probably tune into CBC now because chances are Dryden is still talking. I'm all for changes to the game but these changes have to be supported from within. Right now, I just don't see the demand to fundamentally change the game. Perhaps Im mistaken but lots of former players advocate for changes because it no longer affects them.

 

[stampedingviking]

Good idea, but will not be implemented because of the ingrained mentality in the game.

 

[Noldo]

Good idea, but will not be implemented because of the ingrained mentality in the game.

I think that Dryden's point in this respect was quite interesting as he compared it to phenomena of drunken driving during the early days of automobiles and the movement of mothers, wives and partners of the boys that was allegedly elemental in the change of attitudes.

 

[Dogewow]

I heard him shilling his book on CBC radio where he spoke a lot of Steve montador. Not impressed.

He seems to be under the mistaken beleif that Garry bettman can implement any change he likes by Fiat. Does he not recall the realignment fiasco?

If you are interested you can probably tune into CBC now because chances are Dryden is still talking. I'm all for changes to the game but these changes have to be supported from within. Right now, I just don't see the demand to fundamentally change the game. Perhaps Im mistaken but lots of former players advocate for changes because it no longer affects them.

I think that's the case in terms of day to day lifestyle. I think it also has a lot to do with the fact that players have more issues with their physical and mental health as a result of the hits to the head/serious injuries at this stage in their life and as they continue to grow older.

I think the players need to be more proactive in terms of protecting themselves and others that play the game. This isn't just the responsibility of the league.

 

[Mickey Marner]

The game is too fast to penalize every hit which makes any sort of contact with the head.

 

[Whaleafs]

You can crack down on intentional hits to the head no question, obvious elbows, high sticks, follow-throughs etc. But a lot of them are incidental, head hits glass, tall guy hits shorter guy whose head is at his shoulder height, bends down/reaches last second... What Dryden is proposing will virtually take hitting out of the game, which is the path they've been travelling for quite a few years now. There's only one real solution to end all head shots.

 

[sparxx87]

Shut up, goalie.

 

[Hope Bringer]

He does say that he realizes you can't take concussions fully out of the game. It's never going to happen. Even if you take body checking out, which he's not advocating, you will still get incidental contact that can cause a concussion.

But if a player hits another player's head, even accidentally, then he's saying that should be penalized. No more asking the ref whether the hit was intentional or not. Just like a high sticking penalty is automatic.

 

[BruinDust]

Dryden's suggestion is far too simplistic and is not realistic in a contact sport like hockey.

 

[sandysan]

He does say that he realizes you can't take concussions fully out of the game. It's never going to happen. Even if you take body checking out, which he's not advocating, you will still get incidental contact that can cause a concussion.

But if a player hits another player's head, even accidentally, then he's saying that should be penalized. No more asking the ref whether the hit was intentional or not. Just like a high sticking penalty is automatic.

high sticking penalties are not automatic. You clip a guy during the follow through you are fine as wine. And we already have enough guys willing to draw penalties by embellishment now, you make any hit to the head a call you will have nothing but 3/4 liners leading with their heads directed at 1/2 players. thanks but no.

As much as it sucks, some head contact is unavoidable. A guy loses his balance or bends down to pick up a stick and runs into a guy, that guy didnt do didly to deserve getting penalized even if the first guy gets knocked silly.

We could make the game safer by no hitting and no lifters as well. I think I just gave dryden the topic of his next tome which would likely have about the same chances of being implemented.

shut up goalie made me laugh !

 

[Caeldan]

Dryden's suggestion is far too simplistic and is not realistic in a contact sport like hockey.

And yet a contact sport like football has managed to implement a number of measures to reduce the number of head hits.

As much as people disagree with it, NHL should probably implement some of the contact related rules found in international hockey.

 

[sandysan]

And yet a contact sport like football has managed to implement a number of measures to reduce the number of head hits.

As much as people disagree with it, NHL should probably implement some of the contact related rules found in international hockey.

yeah because there is no league more worthy of emulating than international hockey? Can we get their frequently gassed clueless refs as well ? please ! please !

The NHL ALREADY has implemented measures for certain types of hits, what Dryden is proposing is that ANY hit to the head is a penalty, Maybe they should adopt this in football as well.
The NHL is not the NFL, and its not international hockey ( thank god for that).

I'm waiting with baited breath for the 5 minute major for " hitting a guy TOOOOO hard" that is all the rage in international hockey. We should force Bettman to grow a rene fassel stache as well ( provided he can, the jury is still out on that one).

 

[blankall]

Dryden's suggestion is far too simplistic and is not realistic in a contact sport like hockey.

I agree 100%. Not every head hit is the fault of the hitter too.

The solution is to outlaw hard plastic padding. There are plenty of modern materials that would act to soften the blow of hits. Instead we provide players with hard elbow and shoulder pads that essentially act as weapons.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

You can crack down on intentional hits to the head no question, obvious elbows, high sticks, follow-throughs etc. But a lot of them are incidental, head hits glass, tall guy hits shorter guy whose head is at his shoulder height, bends down/reaches last second... What Dryden is proposing will virtually take hitting out of the game, which is the path they've been travelling for quite a few years now. There's only one real solution to end all head shots.View attachment 80135

Or also make a rule that players taller than 6'2 and shorter than 5'10 cannot play in the NHL.

Very shortsighted.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

high sticking penalties are not automatic. You clip a guy during the follow through you are fine as wine. And we already have enough guys willing to draw penalties by embellishment now, you make any hit to the head a call you will have nothing but 3/4 liners leading with their heads directed at 1/2 players. thanks but no.

As much as it sucks, some head contact is unavoidable. A guy loses his balance or bends down to pick up a stick and runs into a guy, that guy didnt do didly to deserve getting penalized even if the first guy gets knocked silly.

I'm on board with you that there will always be a degree of unavoidable hits... However:

The idea that if headshots become no-tolerance we will have Kamikaze players slamming themselves head-first into their opponents at high speeds gave me a bit of a laugh, I must admit.

 

[BruinDust]

And yet a contact sport like football has managed to implement a number of measures to reduce the number of head hits.

As much as people disagree with it, NHL should probably implement some of the contact related rules found in international hockey.

Implementing measures is one thing, what Dryden is suggesting is zero tolerance with no interpretation.

Football is a different sport, played on a different playing field/surface (grass and no solid boundry vs. ice and boards), played at a different speed, with constant stoppages in play.

 

[BruinDust]

I agree 100%. Not every head hit is the fault of the hitter too.

The solution is to outlaw hard plastic padding. There are plenty of modern materials that would act to soften the blow of hits. Instead we provide players with hard elbow and shoulder pads that essentially act as weapons.

The padding is an issue, but there is progress in that area. My CCM Quicklite shoulder pads (top of the CCM line) don't use plastic shoulder caps but foam, much lighter and softer, but still offering top end protection. Lot's of guys are still using their old shoulder pads they've had for year's with the hard plastics.

I could be wrong but I thought I heard the NHL has taken measures to reduce the hard plastics used in elbow pads.

Elbow pads is a tough one, even a bare elbow can do significant damage to one's head. Granted, a bare elbow making contact with a helmet is going to impact the hitter as well as guy being hit.

Me, I'd start by separating head shot penalties into two categories, those where the shoulder is the primary point of contact, and another for when it is the elbow. Make the elbow to the head the steeper penalty, at least then, you're encouraging guys to keep their elbows tucked in while trying to make contact.

 

[BruinDust]

I do find it funny Dryden cites Montador when talking shots to the head, considering Montador had 70 fights in his professional career. Safe bet that contributed strongly to the development of CTE and his tragic passing.

 

[sandysan]

I do find it funny Dryden cites Montador when talking shots to the head, considering Montador had 70 fights in his professional career. Safe bet that contributed strongly to the development of CTE and his tragic passing.

montador died with CTE, I dont think anyone is saying he died from CTE. Everything I saw said that he died of " natural causes" And if you look at plos one, in the things that lead to concussions ( tied however loosely to CTE) fighting ranks third or fourth. could it have contributed ? sure. Was it a major contributor ? Who knows ?

It also felt a little skeevy how dryden was trying to tie the hypothesis of his book to montador at least in the interview om the CBC but that might just be me.

 

[ijuka]

Well, that's how some leagues are calling them, like Finnish Liiga for example.

Still, I think that there needs to be some responsibility for the player receiving the hit. But yes, the rules should be stricted than they currently are(this primary point of contact nonsense).

 

[BruinDust]

montador died with CTE, I dont think anyone is saying he died from CTE. Everything I saw said that he died of " natural causes" And if you look at plos one, in the things that lead to concussions ( tied however loosely to CTE) fighting ranks third or fourth. could it have contributed ? sure. Was it a major contributor ? Who knows ?

It also felt a little skeevy how dryden was trying to tie the hypothesis of his book to montador at least in the interview om the CBC but that might just be me.

My apologizes I thought he died by suicide brought on by mental issues caused by CTE.

Makes it even worse that Dryden is tying his argument to Montador, while it's been proven he had CTE, then it's not proven it had any impact on his death. Now head trauma might of lead to him taking medications throughout his career that caused his heart to stop, but that would only be speculation.

 

[Noldo]

My apologizes I thought he died by suicide brought on by mental issues caused by CTE.

Makes it even worse that Dryden is tying his argument to Montador, while it's been proven he had CTE, then it's not proven it had any impact on his death. Now head trauma might of lead to him taking medications throughout his career that caused his heart to stop, but that would only be speculation.

Well, to be fair Dryden isn't arguing that CTE caused Montador's death (at least based on the article), but that symptoms of the CTE materially reduced the quality of his life during the last decade+

 

[sandysan]

Well, to be fair Dryden isn't arguing that CTE caused Montador's death (at least based on the article), but that symptoms of the CTE materially reduced the quality of his life during the last decade+

there are no symptoms of CTE, it is only diagnosed post humously. You could be displaying cognitive problems later on in life ( as montador was, apparently) pass away too soon and be found to have CTE. That's correlation, not causation. There are some people who were not diagnosed with CTE who had cognitive problems and there were some players who had CTE ( rick martin) who died of a completely different reasons and no one said that they had cognitive problems. The relationship between the two in of itself is complex ( ignoring for a moment the notion of genetic predisposition) and to suggest that for just this one time we should conflate causation and correlation to me is indefensible.

What happened to montador was a shame irrespective of whether he had CTE or not. To imply causation is a) not medically defensible ( wakefieldian) and b) skeeviliy exploitative if its done to shill for your book.

And my impression, as I said, was from his radio interview on the CBC.