DRW: Summer 2019 Prospect Ranking #14: TIEBREAKER

Who is our number 14 prospect? But for real.


  • Total voters
    85
  • Poll closed .

Cyborg Yzerberg

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
11,150
2,369
Philadelphia
We have ourselves a runoff poll for our 14th best prospect.

It’s between Albin Grewe and Otto Kivenmäki who will contest in a one on one for 24 hours to determine who our 14th best prospect is. They each had 34 votes.

Let’s settle this!
 

HisNoodliness

The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Jun 29, 2014
3,652
2,022
Toronto
The way I see it: Grewe has an aggresive playstyle and can make it in a bottom 6 role so maybe he's more likely to be an NHLer, but Kivenmaki has more top 6 upside IMO. So I went Kivenmaki.

Pretty cool we have a tie
 

NickH8

Registered User
Jul 3, 2015
3,647
3,773
Gotta go Grewe. I think he has a better chance of being a solid third line winger than Kivenmaki has of being top 6. Kivenmaki is top 6 or bust.
 
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Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,130
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Bellingham, WA
Grewe, because he has NHL size and Kivenmaki is redundant with Hirose. The team already has a small playmaking left handed winger, and I doubt he has better hockey IQ than Taro.
 

Hen Kolland

Registered User
Feb 22, 2018
9,470
8,335
Grewe, because he has NHL size and Kivenmaki is redundant with Hirose. The team already has a small playmaking left handed winger, and I doubt he has better hockey IQ than Taro.

Ah yes, where skill and IQ are redundant, and reckless grinders are a major need. I can see some justification for Grewe, but unfortunately this is not one of them.

Either way, at this stage of the game, to have players of this promise in the conversation is still astounding considering where we were 2-3 years ago.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,130
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Bellingham, WA
Ah yes, where skill and IQ are redundant, and reckless grinders are a major need. I can see some justification for Grewe, but unfortunately this is not one of them.

Either way, at this stage of the game, to have players of this promise in the conversation is still astounding considering where we were 2-3 years ago.
Maybe redundant is the wrong word, he's a smaller version of Hirose and I can't imagine he has as much hockey IQ. Hirose was pretty impressive in his 10 game stint. If Hirose is a 2nd/3rd line type player, where does Kivenmaki fit? Plus too many small guys won't get the team far in the playoffs.

I'm not real big on Grewe, because he already has a reputation for low hockey IQ, but he's at least got the physical skills and work ethics.
 

ricky0034

Registered User
Jun 8, 2010
14,870
6,951
Grewe

Kivenmaki strikes me as being just too much of a longshot to make the NHL at all,sure if he does he'll probably be much better than Grewe but the odds are just far too low
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
4,576
3,462
Grewe, because he has NHL size and Kivenmaki is redundant with Hirose. The team already has a small playmaking left handed winger, and I doubt he has better hockey IQ than Taro.
We're talking about our 14th prospect. If you are worried that we already have a player on the roster that is too similar of a player, you are doing it very wrong.


But after checking out Grewe's highlight video again, I forgot how much I liked him and I probably should have voted for him a little earlier
 
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ThankGord

Registered User
Jul 11, 2018
1,920
2,704
GR, MI
Tough call! I really like Kivenmäki but I think Grewe is a safer bet to become an NHLer and compete level seems to be big in today's game (not that Kivenmäki doesn't compete, but Grewe is intense).
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
14,683
Maybe redundant is the wrong word, he's a smaller version of Hirose and I can't imagine he has as much hockey IQ. Hirose was pretty impressive in his 10 game stint. If Hirose is a 2nd/3rd line type player, where does Kivenmaki fit? Plus too many small guys won't get the team far in the playoffs.

I'm not real big on Grewe, because he already has a reputation for low hockey IQ, but he's at least got the physical skills and work ethics.

Why does it matter? Even if we have five 40-50 pt small wingers on the team, another 40-50 pt small winger is still a valuable asset. You can always trade them like we did with Tatar or Nyquist. Seems like a weird reason not to vote for a prospect, IMO. By the time Grewe/Kivenmaki are ready for the NHL our roster might look totally different. Can't factor that stuff into this too much.
 

lilidk

Registered User
Mar 4, 2008
9,592
3,426
If Grewe control his emotions he is going to be good NHL player.If he acts like T-Rex coming to NHL he is going to get killed. I liked a lot Kivenmaki last camp, but I don't see much progress this year. Philips has higher sealing than both of them
 

The Zetterberg Era

Ball Hockey Sucks
Nov 8, 2011
40,957
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Why does it matter? Even if we have five 40-50 pt small wingers on the team, another 40-50 pt small winger is still a valuable asset. You can always trade them like we did with Tatar or Nyquist. Seems like a weird reason not to vote for a prospect, IMO. By the time Grewe/Kivenmaki are ready for the NHL our roster might look totally different. Can't factor that stuff into this too much.

I get that it will change and fully appreciate that angle. There are a lot of sliding pieces but absent a dominant Liiga campaign that raises his profile before he gets here he is going to need some help because I agree he is going to be a top 9 guy. Which is actually an Yzerman difference I am hoping to see shortly but he prefers a top 9 and bottom line setup in terms of his third lines while heavy at times usually have more skill.

In any event Otto looks like a winger and absent Mantha and AA moving soon and I wouldn't be shocked if one was dealt but absent that we don't have a lot of spots. Zadina is locked into a top six role as are the previous two. Bertuzzi can slide up and down but he looks likely to be a fixture because of how much everyone in the organization seems to love him. Now you are competing with Ras, Svech, Hirose and Berggren for two spots. You might also be competing with out 2020 first rounder if we do pick top 5 as most of us expect. Turn in players like Grewe having the ability to out kick their coverage, maybe Givani Smith rebounds after a difficult year or Phillips winds up a smaller shifty winger longer term and Mastrosemoni it is starting to look very congested. While yes things will change, I think Otto needs to start compiling big numbers that get him some feeling going into this competition for jobs. Hirose did that and ran with it but opportunity isn't always there in an organization. If Stevie cannot land the right deals odds become very long. It isn't that size is a be all end all factor but much like with Hicketts there are still times it massively impacts a race with other guys. We have high end looking top 9 guys in the system. Not all will pan out but a lot needs to happen. It isn't as easy to project him as Ras, Svech or Grewe in terms of guys that are far more ideal for a depth role and more versatile. I root for all these guys but he needs a big year, we have a lot of competition out there. Which is why I prefer Grewe at this point. I think he is cut from the Bertuzzi cloth and will play any role and in part his willingness and aggressiveness will help him in that competition. We will see, I think his hockey sense is underrated.
 
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Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,130
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Bellingham, WA
We're talking about our 14th prospect. If you are worried that we already have a player on the roster that is too similar of a player, you are doing it very wrong.
So there's rules on how to vote now? Let me simplify this for you, I don't think Kivenmaki makes the NHL at all, much less with the Wings. Am I doing it right now? I just didn't want to sound too negative about the kid.

Why does it matter? Even if we have five 40-50 pt small wingers on the team, another 40-50 pt small winger is still a valuable asset. You can always trade them like we did with Tatar or Nyquist. Seems like a weird reason not to vote for a prospect, IMO. By the time Grewe/Kivenmaki are ready for the NHL our roster might look totally different. Can't factor that stuff into this too much.
Look, he's small. Smaller than Hirose. Smaller than Johnny G. Which means he needs to have more skill, speed, and/or hockey IQ to compensate. I haven't seen any of that. I doubt he makes the NHL at all. His game is best suited for one of the Euro non-contact leagues.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,201
14,683
So there's rules on how to vote now? Let me simplify this for you, I don't think Kivenmaki makes the NHL at all, much less with the Wings. Am I doing it right now? I just didn't want to sound too negative about the kid.


Look, he's small. Smaller than Hirose. Smaller than Johnny G. Which means he needs to have more skill, speed, and/or hockey IQ to compensate. I haven't seen any of that. I doubt he makes the NHL at all. His game is best suited for one of the Euro non-contact leagues.

You’re free to vote based on whatever you want. But FWIW our front office disagrees with you.

Hakan Anderson on Kivenmaki:

“He’s very small,” Andersson said. “(But) he’s skilled and has hockey sense.

Horcoff on Kivenmaki:

“Through maturity and time, that’s going to come. He’s a guy who has elite skill and talent, and you can see it. It’s just going to take a year or two to put that weight on.”

Wings prospect Kivenmaki makes up for size with 'elite skill'
 
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Hen Kolland

Registered User
Feb 22, 2018
9,470
8,335
You’re free to vote based on whatever you want. But FWIW our front office disagrees with you.

Hakan Anderson on Kivenmaki:

“He’s very small,” Andersson said. “(But) he’s skilled and has hockey sense.

Horcoff on Kivenmaki:

“Through maturity and time, that’s going to come. He’s a guy who has elite skill and talent, and you can see it. It’s just going to take a year or two to put that weight on.”

Wings prospect Kivenmaki makes up for size with 'elite skill'

And that Horcoff comment comes well received considering the bulk he put on over the last year
 

MBH

Players Play
Jul 20, 2019
13,497
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SE Michigan
redwingsnow.com
Maybe redundant is the wrong word, he's a smaller version of Hirose and I can't imagine he has as much hockey IQ. Hirose was pretty impressive in his 10 game stint. If Hirose is a 2nd/3rd line type player, where does Kivenmaki fit? Plus too many small guys won't get the team far in the playoffs.

I'm not real big on Grewe, because he already has a reputation for low hockey IQ, but he's at least got the physical skills and work ethics.

I think Otto
Kivenmaki is a better skater than Hirose.
 
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