Drew Doughty vs Zdeno Chara

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The Abusement Park

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Just because you say so doesn't make it true.

I swear people try to act that Doughty is some uber defensive god who never makes a mistake.

He isn't close to that.

? The players better than DD defensively I could count on one hand. As in there’s maybe 2-3 guys better than him.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
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Just because you say so doesn't make it true.

I swear people try to act that Doughty is some uber defensive god who never makes a mistake.

He isn't close to that.

Literally no one has said that but I'm not surprised at all you've come out of hiding to bash DD.

He is an uber defensive player by any measure and the eye test confirms all of that, Kings have been absolute trash defensively and in transition or possession with him off the ice since the Cup years, and even then they just held serve without him. Why does it piss people off so much that it can't be captured in raw points?


Also why has this become Hedman vs Doughty.

The way it usually does...people trying to retroactively strip him of a Norris and continually diminishing his many accomplishments to make 'their guy' look better when he's not even involved in the topic.
 

Agent Zub

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Jan 2, 2015
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Literally no one has said that but I'm not surprised at all you've come out of hiding to bash DD.

He is an uber defensive player by any measure and the eye test confirms all of that, Kings have been absolute trash defensively and in transition or possession with him off the ice since the Cup years, and even then they just held serve without him. Why does it piss people off so much that it can't be captured in raw points?




The way it usually does...people trying to retroactively strip him of a Norris and continually diminishing his many accomplishments to make 'their guy' look better when he's not even involved in the topic.


I know how good Doughty is defensively. He's one of the best. But yea that's me bashing on Doughty.
 

Agent Zub

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When I quoted you your only contribution to the thread was to say he's not close to that.

What I said was that Doughty makes mistakes.

But somehow gets a pass on them in the media and HF. While other D men get bashed for those exact same mistakes.

It's just dishonest.
 

GreatGonzo

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May 26, 2011
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Just because you say so doesn't make it true.

I swear people try to act that Doughty is some uber defensive god who never makes a mistake.

He isn't close to that.
It doesn’t take much to notice that Doughty is at another m better defensively than EK. It also doesn’t take much to see how people are simply in “awe” of his offense, that they forget his liabilities defensively.

No one is calling him a “God” or that he never makes mistakes. It’s humerous that you have to try to make up a narrative to feel more secure with your opinions, but it’s simply that you can’t handle the truth, which is that EKs play in his own end has been suspect and Is a reason why he didn’t win the Norris.

So no, no one is calling Doughty perfect. He’s just a better overall defenseman than EK.
 

Agent Zub

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It doesn’t take much to notice that Doughty is at another m better defensively than EK. It also doesn’t take much to see how people are simply in “awe” of his offense, that they forget his liabilities defensively.

No one is calling him a “God” or that he never makes mistakes. It’s humerous that you have to try to make up a narrative to feel more secure with your opinions, but it’s simply that you can’t handle the truth, which is that EKs play in his own end has been suspect and Is a reason why he didn’t win the Norris.

So no, no one is calling Doughty perfect. He’s just a better overall defenseman than EK.

I've watched almost every Drew Doughty playoff game in the last four years. He isn't on some otherworldly level defensively. Not close.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
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What I said was that Doughty makes mistakes.

But somehow gets a pass on them in the media and HF. While other D men get bashed for those exact same mistakes.

It's just dishonest.

Definitely doesn't get a pass here, that's for sure. He gets executed for even saying a word here.

Hockey is a game of mistakes. Great defense minimizes errors, but no one is flawless. It's about the frequency of mistakes, of which Doughty has relatively few. His Norris year was the best strictly defensively since Chara's 2011 season by so, so many metrics, and that was without considering possession/offense at all.
 
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GreatGonzo

Surrounded by Snowflakes
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Hey remember when Karlsson defensively and offensively dismantled the Bruins in the 2017 playoffs. That must have been confusing for you to watch.
So petty :laugh:
What I said was that Doughty makes mistakes.

But somehow gets a pass on them in the media and HF. While other D men get bashed for those exact same mistakes.

It's just dishonest.
everyone makes mistakes. All your doing is talking nonesense while completely avoiding the simple fact that Doughty has been superior defensively. Believe it or not, that is somewhat a requirement for a DEFENSEman.

You think EK doesn’t get enough credit? His offense alone is the reason why he had the hype around him, and nothing else really. You can continue rambling on about these “mistakes,” and avoid the truth.
 

GreatGonzo

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I've watched almost every Drew Doughty playoff game in the last four years. He isn't on some otherworldly level defensively. Not close.
Right.....because your word should be taken more seriously and righteously than actual stats and experts.

Let me put it to you this way, Doughty is better defensively and plays a much tougher defensive position. Not close.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
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oh really? you guys dreamed of getting blown out in 3 straight games in January? oh wait, thats what happened to tampa when hedman went down with an injury...

We're lucky to not have to frequently play 'what if' in regards to Doughty as he's only missed 16 games in his entire career--let that sink in for a minute with respect to the minutes he plays--but did people not see Game 2 vs. VGK without Drew? LAK couldn't do a single thing but hold on for dear life.

I mean it was pretty clearly a joke mocking LA's offense :dunno:
 

VoluntaryDom

Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Oct 31, 2016
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We're lucky to not have to frequently play 'what if' in regards to Doughty as he's only missed 16 games in his entire career--let that sink in for a minute with respect to the minutes he plays--but did people not see Game 2 vs. VGK without Drew? LAK couldn't do a single thing but hold on for dear life.
Yes, turns out like Tampa, LA is significantly worse without their #1, top-10-in-the-league dman.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
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Yes, turns out like Tampa, LA is significantly worse without their #1, top-10-in-the-league dman.

Why so defensive? Hedman is an impact player and you'd expect TB to be worse without him. This isn't exactly a hot take and it doesn't at all address your original asinine assertion, that Hedman's stats suffered because Tampa struggled when they were slumping (as if no other d-man is influenced by similar issues)---so are you talking about games without him, or games with him? You can't even follow your own argument, man.

Also TB was 3-2 without Hedman scoring 14 goals and allowing 13 including adding two blowouts of their own...so I'm really going to need you to fact check yourself so you can stop owning yourself. That's a better team points percentage, worse offense, better defense. A terribly small sample size, but hey, you're the one who wanted to extrapolate.
 

VoluntaryDom

Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
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Why so defensive? Hedman is an impact player and you'd expect TB to be worse without him. This isn't exactly a hot take and it doesn't at all address your original asinine assertion, that Hedman's stats suffered because Tampa struggled when they were slumping (as if no other d-man is influenced by similar issues)---so are you talking about games without him, or games with him? You can't even follow your own argument, man.

Also TB was 3-2 without Hedman scoring 14 goals and allowing 13 including adding two blowouts of their own...so I'm really going to need you to fact check yourself so you can stop owning yourself.
Calgary game where Hedman got hurt we lost by 3. Lost by 3 to min and VGK as well. Then we figured it out for a bit.
 

VoluntaryDom

Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
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And from about December on Tampa was not a good hockey team though Hedman was playing his best hockey of the season.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
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And from about December on Tampa was not a good hockey team though Hedman was playing his best hockey of the season.

Which is understandable and I appreciate the context, but it's something every team and player goes through, and writing Hedman an excuse note for a near-President's Trophy team seems a little silly.

Also if that's the case you'd expect his relative stats--given his usage--to be much better, which is something Erik Karlsson was always fantastic at.
 

Agent Zub

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Jan 2, 2015
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You watched almost 8 games, 5 of which were his worst showing ever? Wow, sure explains a lot.

I didn't say that I also didn't watch some of his regular season games.

And it's really funny how much of a pass that Doughty gets for his recent playoff performance. Any other d would have been crucified.
 

VoluntaryDom

Formerly DominicBoltsFan / Ⓐ / ✞
Oct 31, 2016
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Which is understandable and I appreciate the context, but it's something every team and player goes through, and writing Hedman an excuse note for a near-President's Trophy team seems a little silly.

Also if that's the case you'd expect his relative stats--given his usage--to be much better, which is something Erik Karlsson was always fantastic at.
Well he’s sort of not Erik Karlsson. No one is. Karlsson is the best dman on the planet easily. Also Hedman’s usage is tougher than you give it credit for. About 10 percentile higher qoc than qot which is right in the same range as doughty.
 

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