Drastic measures! (Not an overreaction :) )

Alessandro Seren Rosso

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Let's talk about the next Olympics. How will Russia look then?

Talent-wise Russia will probably be worse in 2018 than it is now.

Datsyuk and Markov will not be there. They will be 40 in 2018.

Kovalchuk will be 35 in 2018 then and his career is slowing down due to injuries. I doubt he will play.

Ovechkin will be 33 and Malkin will be 32 in 2018. They should still be around in 2018 but they will probably have declined from their current form.

Radulov will also be 32 and he should still be around. He is playing a less grueling style of play in the KHL which should help the longevity of his career. But Radulov is neither going to improve, but rather decline.

Hopefully Kuznetsov can turn his career around because Russia is going to need him. He is better and more talented than Tarasenko, who I don't think will ever be an impact player for national team. Nichushkin is a big question mark. I don't know if he will turn into a new superstar or just a solid power winger. But he should be a key player for Russia in 2018, because Russia does not have too many young wingers to select with.

Anisimov will be 30 and should be a serviceable player for Russia in 2018. Hopefully he will be nothing more than a 4rd line center though, but that would require one or two centers to come from 1995-1998 age groups who are good enough to play ahead of Anisimov.

Defenders Tyutin, Nikulin and Medvedev will (hopefully :laugh: ) be gone by 2018. Russia is desperate for good young defensemen. Emelin and Nikitin will be 32 in 2018 and could crack the roster. Maybe Belov too, who will also be 32 then (1986 was a great age group for Russia).

Zadorov and Voynov should play in leadership roles. Hopefully Kulikov and Orlov have managed to turn their careers around. They will be in their prime in 2018.

But you have to admit that this defense looks shaky and Russia needs Zadorov and one or two more defensemen from 1995-1998 age groups to really step up before 2018.

Well 4 years ago we didnt think Nichushkin or Tarasenko would make the roster (and maata, vatanen, barkov, etc.) so it's early
 

SoundAndFury

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Let's talk about the next Olympics. How will Russia look then?

<...>

Hopefully Kuznetsov can turn his career around because Russia is going to need him. He is better and more talented than Tarasenko, who I don't think will ever be an impact player for national team.

Generally it's much too early to talk about it unless you have a crystal ball. Buchnevich might be a NHL star by that point or he might be a 25-point KHL forward.

But the paragraph about Kuznetsov vs. Tarasenko :facepalm: How can anyone still think that? Do they show hockey over there in Finland?
 

Peter25

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Well 4 years ago we didnt think Nichushkin or Tarasenko would make the roster (and maata, vatanen, barkov, etc.) so it's early

Yes. The talent and depth of the 1995-1998 age groups will be crucial for Russia's next Olympic team. If new players will not pop out of these age groups that are good enough to play in big roles in 2018 Olympics then Russia will be in a big trouble.
 

Peter25

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But the paragraph about Kuznetsov vs. Tarasenko :facepalm: How can anyone still think that? Do they show hockey over there in Finland?
I have never been impressed with Tarasenko when he has played in the national team. I have been more impressed with Kuznetsov who has had some great games in EHT (before this season).
 

SoundAndFury

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Well, first of all let me say that you didn't pick the correct example because SKA is a very stacked team and in each stacked team of the world juniors struggle, being it the KHL, the NHL or the English Ice Hockey League. But if we don't focus on a single player, yes, I can see what you mean.
But you confirm what I'm saying. We don't manage to turn talented kids into pro players. Juniors vs juniors we're fine, then, everyone for themselves!

No, I just picked Yudin because he was the first one to pop into my head. I guess it's because of all that that SKA watching.

And yeah, I guess I do confirm your point, it's just that its sources are bit different.

I have never been impressed with Tarasenko when he has played in the national team. I have been more impressed with Kuznetsov who has had some great games in EHT (before this season).

Congrats, you've just won the "Alois Hadamczik of this board" award :laugh:
 

Den

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You guys have to take it easy and go watch short-track tonight where we will get two golds likely :)

Which gives me an idea: how about naturalizing all of American team, like they did that with Viktor Ahn? :sarcasm:
 

Atas2000

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Well 4 years ago we didnt think Nichushkin or Tarasenko would make the roster (and maata, vatanen, barkov, etc.) so it's early

True for Nichushkin and understandable regarding his age, BUT Tarasenko was there. If we're talking 2018, then hopefully there will be another Nichushkin or even a couple of them, but other than that the roster is very well predictable.
 

Alessandro Seren Rosso

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We should start by letting rest Ovechkin/Syomin/Kovalchuk/Varlamov/etc at the next WC and call instead Vasilevsky/Buchnevich/Mironov/Antipin/Karpov/Malykhin/Panarin/Prokhorkin/Burmistrov/Chudinov
But for some reasons we won't see it happening
 

Yakushev72

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Dec 27, 2010
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I've never really understood the concept of "waiting for an NHL star to drop out of the Stanley Cup playoffs". Last year, when Kuznetsov had to spend days in Helsinki "just in case no decent NHLers come over", it hit a new low. What a way to disrespect the best of your youth and your domestic leauge.

The whole attitude towards the WCs must be re-evaluated asap. I'd honestly have much more interest for that tourney if it was more about Kuznetsovs, Burmistrovs, Panarins and Vasilevskys than "dead" Ovechkins and "essential" Nikulins. Alas, it's not going to change as long as the Soviet guard is still in charge.

Your vintage "greedy unpatriotic NHLers" bashing is cute. I see what you did there.

In Olympic play, since 1998 the real international showcase of hockey, Russian NHL players have always been flops and failures. No exceptions. Isn't it time to abandon NHL'ers altogether and build a national team around the KHL?. Especially if the NHL drops out of the Olympics, because if they drop the Olympic Games, as expected, they will also pull the plug on the World Championships, which they consider to be a huge nuisance. KHL'ers are obviously more geographically available than NHL'ers, and building around the KHL might encourage more top end players to stay home. I'm not suggesting that NHL players be banned, but they should be required to spend time in Russia during the off-season to work with NT players and coaches.
 

Peter25

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In Olympic play, since 1998 the real international showcase of hockey, Russian NHL players have always been flops and failures. No exceptions.
Not entirely true. Russia won Bronze in 2002 due to NHL players.

Isn't it time to abandon NHL'ers altogether and build a national team around the KHL?.
Do you think Russia would have done better in Sochi with a team consisting only of KHL players? I doubt it.

The talent level was not the issue here. I believe Russia had the most talented team in Sochi after Canada. Russia had the better of the play against Finland and also outplayed Americans in the round robin.

The problem is that there is no system to utilize this talent fully. Russia was the worst coached team in the tournament. Bilyaletdinov managed to win in 2012 because Russia was so stacked compared to everyone else then and because of Malkin's beast mode (which now was lacking), but when the playing field is more even Bilyaletdinov's shortcomings became too visible.

Russia had the talent to win the Gold in Sochi, but the system was not there.

The big question is that what happens if Russia cannot build a solid system for future national teams AND the talent level starts to decline at the same time? Will Russia be be permanently left behind by Canada, the US and Sweden and how big will the gap become?

The Malkin's, Ovechkin's, Datsyuk's and Radulov's will either not be around in 2018 or they will have declined due to aging. And currently there are no young players of this caliber coming out of Russian development system.

The worst case scenario is that Russia will again enter the 2018 Olympics with a team without a system and with also a reduced talent level. Will Vladimir Tarasenko, Artemi Panarin and Evgeny Kuznetsov have to carry the torch for Russia in 2018?
 
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Alessandro Seren Rosso

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In Olympic play, since 1998 the real international showcase of hockey, Russian NHL players have always been flops and failures. No exceptions. Isn't it time to abandon NHL'ers altogether and build a national team around the KHL?. Especially if the NHL drops out of the Olympics, because if they drop the Olympic Games, as expected, they will also pull the plug on the World Championships, which they consider to be a huge nuisance. KHL'ers are obviously more geographically available than NHL'ers, and building around the KHL might encourage more top end players to stay home. I'm not suggesting that NHL players be banned, but they should be required to spend time in Russia during the off-season to work with NT players and coaches.

Agreed. And we must do something for the CHL
 

Yakushev72

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Dec 27, 2010
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We should start by letting rest Ovechkin/Syomin/Kovalchuk/Varlamov/etc at the next WC and call instead Vasilevsky/Buchnevich/Mironov/Antipin/Karpov/Malykhin/Panarin/Prokhorkin/Burmistrov/Chudinov
But for some reasons we won't see it happening

I agree. Why hang on to those guys when they haven't been successful and they're not the wave of the future? Why not bring along the best young players and groom them to step up to the top level? Riding the NHL horse has never been good to Russia, and Sochi took that failure to its most disappointing level.
 

Yakushev72

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Dec 27, 2010
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Not entirely true. Russia won Bronze in 2002 due to NHL players.


Do you think Russia would have done better in Sochi with a team consisting only of KHL players? I doubt it.

The talent level was not the issue here. I believe Russia had the most talented team in Sochi after Canada. Russia had the better of the play against Finland and also outplayed Americans in the round robin.

The problem is that there is no system to utilize this talent fully. Russia was the worst coached team in the tournament. Bilyaletdinov managed to win in 2012 because Russia was so stacked compared to everyone else then and because of Malkin's beast mode (which now was lacking), but when the playing field is more even Bilyaletdinov's shortcomings became too visible.

Russia had the talent to win the Gold in Sochi, but the system was not there.

The big question is that what happens if Russia cannot build a solid system for future national teams AND the talent level starts to decline at the same time? Will Russia be be permanently left behind by Canada, the US and Sweden and how big will the gap become?

The Malkin's, Ovechkin's, Datsyuk's and Radulov's will either not be around in 2018 or they will have declined due to aging. And currently there are no young players of this caliber coming out of Russian development system.

The worst case scenario is that Russia will again enter the 2018 Olympics with a team without a system and with also a reduced talent level. Will Vladimir Tarasenko, Artemi Panarin and Evgeny Kuznetsov have to carry the torch for Russia in 2018?

Could Russia have done better with KHL'ers in Sochi? I don't know. If they made it to the Bronze Medal game and lost, they would finish 4th, which would beat this year's performance.
 

Yakushev72

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Dec 27, 2010
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Yes. The talent and depth of the 1995-1998 age groups will be crucial for Russia's next Olympic team. If new players will not pop out of these age groups that are good enough to play in big roles in 2018 Olympics then Russia will be in a big trouble.

Big trouble? What do you mean by that? Do you think that NHL players will play in Korea? According to NBC Sports in the United States, the decision has already been made, mainly because the calculation is that the NHL took a bath financially in these games, and nobody back in NA (other than Canada, perhaps) watched them at 6 a.m. in the morning. It would be even worse in Korea. The teams that have a lot of KHL players, like Russia and Finland, could probably expect to be dominant in 2018.
 

obskyr

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Russians are too proud for that.

I just don't see that. Coaches like Vujtek and Summanen earn cult following among the Russian hockey fans, Capello is generally lauded for brining the football team on the new level and the David Blatt era was hands down the best in history of post-Soviet Russian basketball. In that context, a foreigner helming the hockey NT sounds like no-brainer.

The only people who, I suppose, would have problems with that are the management of the Hockey Federation of Russia.
 

obskyr

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I told you, two golds in short-trek, and you are still talking about some abstract problems

Not even the figure skating announcers yesterday and the short track announcers today could refrain from picking on the hockey players.
 

Jussi

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Could Russia have done better with KHL'ers in Sochi? I don't know. If they made it to the Bronze Medal game and lost, they would finish 4th, which would beat this year's performance.

For crying out loud, a team based of purely KHL players had trouble in the EHT with Finland European based players already. It's the coaching where the problems were.
 

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