Player Discussion Drake Caggiula - How far can he go?

[Zaddy]

I think it's way too early to write of Caggiula. These smaller kids usually needs some time to find their role in the NHL. Look at guys like Marchessault and Yanni Gourde. It wasn't until their 26 year old season they broke out. With the right coaching and some confidence I think Caggiula could be a legit top9 winger. He definitely has the toolset to do so. His biggest issue so far IMO has been the lack of finish and I think that is tied into the confidence thing. Way too early go give up on him anyway. Maybe he'll flame out eventually but you have to give him more time.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I think it's way too early to write of Caggiula. These smaller kids usually needs some time to find their role in the NHL. Look at guys like Marchessault and Yanni Gourde. It wasn't until their 26 year old season they broke out. With the right coaching and some confidence I think Caggiula could be a legit top9 winger. He definitely has the toolset to do so. His biggest issue so far IMO has been the lack of finish and I think that is tied into the confidence thing. Way too early go give up on him anyway. Maybe he'll flame out eventually but you have to give him more time.

He absolutely needs to solidify his defensive game and learn to PK. Staff also needs to stop just throwing him around the lineup. If the plan is to staple him to Stromes left wing on the third line and he works hard this summer I have time.

I heard an interview with him a few days ago that gave me a bit of faith in the kid. I know all of you think corsi is garbage and means nothing, but Caggiula straight up said that he needs to work on his POSESSION for next year. He notices his issues like a lot of us detractors do. That gave me a bit of faith in the kid because it's honestly rare nowadays to hear players actually know what they need to really work on and admit it.

 

[nexttothemoon]

A lot of people referencing stats saying he had a negative impact on the team using last years but ignore he was much better as a rookie. Could have been more a case of player looks worse on a bad team with a goalie who can’t make a save rather than him forgetting how to play hockey well.

Caggiula shouldn't need the goalie standing on his head to produce offense.

In fact his RelT GF/60 was -.49 in the year that Talbot was excellent... and -.48 last year when Talbot was average/mediocre.

That's remarkably consistent numbers that show that so far he is under water relative to his teammates no matter what the goaltending/D/offense around him is like.

Maybe with time he improves on those negative numbers and becomes a positive factor for the team.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Caggiula shouldn't need the goalie standing on his head to produce offense.

In fact his RelT GF/60 was -.49 in the year that Talbot was excellent... and -.48 last year when Talbot was average/mediocre.

That's remarkably consistent numbers that show that so far he is under water relative to his teammates no matter what the goaltending/D/offense around him is like.

Maybe with time he improves on those negative numbers and becomes a positive factor for the team.

Yep. It's not the raw numbers that people are worried about, it's the numbers relative to his teammates.

 

[nabob]

Caggiula shouldn't need the goalie standing on his head to produce offense.

In fact his RelT GF/60 was -.49 in the year that Talbot was excellent... and -.48 last year when Talbot was average/mediocre.

That's remarkably consistent numbers that show that so far he is under water relative to his teammates no matter what the goaltending/D/offense around him is like.

Maybe with time he improves on those negative numbers and becomes a positive factor for the team.

Lots of factors in there as well. Like being forced into playing a defensive center shutdown type role as a rookie who was mainly a winger in college.

I think this team is very weak mentally and he is probably a part of it. He was often last season part of the line that would let up a bad goal on the shift after we scored. Hopefully they come to camp with their heads screwed on better his year.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Lots of factors in there as well. Like being forced into playing a defensive center shutdown type role as a rookie who was mainly a winger in college.

I think this team is very weak mentally and he is probably a part of it. He was often last season part of the line that would let up a bad goal on the shift after we scored. Hopefully they come to camp with their heads screwed on better his year.

I dont think they are weak mentally just...misled. you know that phrase you hear a lot when a team gets behind "lost of hockey left"? I think the Oilers last year believed that to strong and would get complacent. They would allow an early goal or 2 and go "it's fine a lot of game lefr". Then they would be quite behind and then start to play in the third. The team didn't seem to have that killer instinct until it was too late in games.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Lots of factors in there as well. Like being forced into playing a defensive center shutdown type role as a rookie who was mainly a winger in college.

I think this team is very weak mentally and he is probably a part of it. He was often last season part of the line that would let up a bad goal on the shift after we scored. Hopefully they come to camp with their heads screwed on better his year.

Caggiula had pretty soft minutes in his rookie season... -2.85 Rel zone starts and both his CF% QoC and xGF% QoC were under 50 so he didn't face particularly difficult opposition either.

This past season his QoC was only slightly higher... right around that 50% mark so nothing particularly difficult and his QoT was even better this past season... yet his RelT GF/60 still isn't improving.

If he needs butter soft minutes to be productive... I can't see that happening on the Oilers as they simply aren't deep enough of a team to have the ability to shelter a 10 ply line.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

He absolutely needs to solidify his defensive game and learn to PK. Staff also needs to stop just throwing him around the lineup. If the plan is to staple him to Stromes left wing on the third line and he works hard this summer I have time.

I heard an interview with him a few days ago that gave me a bit of faith in the kid. I know all of you think corsi is garbage and means nothing, but Caggiula straight up said that he needs to work on his POSESSION for next year. He notices his issues like a lot of us detractors do. That gave me a bit of faith in the kid because it's honestly rare nowadays to hear players actually know what they need to really work on and admit it.

This. So much this. I don't get why so many people are hating on him. Is he lacking on many facets of the game? Absolutely. But you can tell that he's one of the few players in our bottom 6 that gives a **** every shift (the other being Khaira). Someone who based on draft pedigree should have more tools than Caggiula like Strome just looks like he doesn't care half the time and it shows with his slow skating, lack of hustle, and inconsistency. Caggiula's inconsistency is due to lack of experience and sometimes a lack of tools, but never because of effort, and is always trying to improve himself and add new elements in his game, even if he has to fall flat on his face doing so. I'd much rather have that than a dude who couldn't give a rats *** about working on their deficiencies like Milan Lucic.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think it's way too early to write of Caggiula. These smaller kids usually needs some time to find their role in the NHL. Look at guys like Marchessault and Yanni Gourde. It wasn't until their 26 year old season they broke out. With the right coaching and some confidence I think Caggiula could be a legit top9 winger. He definitely has the toolset to do so. His biggest issue so far IMO has been the lack of finish and I think that is tied into the confidence thing. Way too early go give up on him anyway. Maybe he'll flame out eventually but you have to give him more time.

His biggest deficiency is a complete absence of hockey IQ. Again this is the worst forward this team had last season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This. So much this. I don't get why so many people are hating on him. Is he lacking on many facets of the game? Absolutely. But you can tell that he's one of the few players in our bottom 6 that gives a **** every shift (the other being Khaira). Someone who based on draft pedigree should have more tools than Caggiula like Strome just looks like he doesn't care half the time and it shows with his slow skating, lack of hustle, and inconsistency. Caggiula's inconsistency is due to lack of experience and sometimes a lack of tools, but never because of effort, and is always trying to improve himself and add new elements in his game, even if he has to fall flat on his face doing so. I'd much rather have that than a dude who couldn't give a rats *** about working on their deficiencies like Milan Lucic.

Wow, player is awful, but he tries.

Again confusion exists because a player is busy, but clueless, and can't read plays to save an NHL career. Cagg has the worse decision making I've seen on this team this season. He was an advernture out there with 3.2GA/EV60mins despite seeing mostly weak opposition and despite being sheltered with Ozone faceoffs. Again he was -1.1 every 60minutes he played which is an incredible level of failure.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Caggiula had pretty soft minutes in his rookie season... -2.85 Rel zone starts and both his CF% QoC and xGF% QoC were under 50 so he didn't face particularly difficult opposition either.

This past season his QoC was only slightly higher... right around that 50% mark so nothing particularly difficult and his QoT was even better this past season... yet his RelT GF/60 still isn't improving.

If he needs butter soft minutes to be productive... I can't see that happening on the Oilers as they simply aren't deep enough of a team to have the ability to shelter a 10 ply line.

Cagg got soft minutes AND drowned this season AND only got 20pts. Simply disgusting totals and raw stats given his usage. Not sure how people didn't see that.

 

[Zaddy]

His biggest deficiency is a complete absence of hockey IQ. Again this is the worst forward this team had last season.

I don't know about that. He has never struck me as a player who is dumb out there and makes bad decisions / doesn't read plays. I think he at least has pretty average hockey IQ. I think moreso his biggest problem has been his lack of finish (like I mentioned earlier) and overall that he is maybe trying to do too much and plays with too much energy. He would probably benefit from settling down a little bit, but that ties back into him not really having found his role in the NHL yet. Although I could see how someone would think that comes from a lack of hockey IQ. Maybe it does, but right now I don't think there is conclusive evidence for that to be the case.

 

[nabob]

I think his biggest issue is that he jumped straight from College onto a team that had poor depth and where the coaching staff didn’t have a clue how to utilize him. He should have been in the AHL his first year. He should have been on the 4th line last year being given the Puljujarvi treatment. Instead he was on the power play, playing all over the lineup, and getting burnt in OT.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

There's something about this team and not requiring players pay some dues in the AHL.

I've rarely ever seen it hurt a player. With the exception of generational talents, Older and more mature is almost always better than younger and inexperienced.

I think we should have immediately sent Hopkins Yakupov Drai Puljujaarvi Gagner Cogliano back for more seasoning.

Cags Yak Puljujaarvi Gagner Cogliano and Nurse should have spent at least 1 full year in the A.

I mean allegedly these players were kept up as novices, and helped us to 'win more' if any of you think that counted for anything during those garbage years.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

There's something about this team and not requiring players pay some dues in the AHL.

I've rarely ever seen it hurt a player. With the exception of generational talents, Older and more mature is almost always better than younger and inexperienced.

I think we should have immediately sent Hopkins Yakupov Drai Puljujaarvi Gagner Cogliano back for more seasoning.

Cags Yak Puljujaarvi Gagner Cogliano and Nurse should have spent at least 1 full year in the A.

I mean allegedly these players were kept up as novices, and helped us to 'win more' if any of you think that counted for anything during those garbage years.

Hopkins was ready for the NHL.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Sure. You could argue they were all ready.

At 5'10 166lbs Hopkins sure hasn't really improved much offensively on his rookie season.

Lets imagine we gave him the Jason Spezza treatment. Send him back to junior for 2 seasons, then a season in the AHL.

He debut's in the NHL 2014-15 Season, except now he's 6'0 191 lbs. With a more solid defensive game after playing a year of pro.

He only had 56 points that year (52 in his rookie season in less games).

Maybe we now have a better idea of the kind of player he is. Maybe we sign him to 4.5 million a season instead of 6.

Maybe he misses a significant chunk of that decade of darkness, and has a winner mentality coming in. Maybe with a longer leash and much more confidence, he can carry his own line.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Btw, I didn't think Mitch Marner would be a better player than Nuge, yet here we are. Marner significantly better than him.

Maybe there's a lot to be said about playing in a winning environment, and developing confidence.


Maybe if we let Schultz develop his game in the AHL for a couple of seasons, and played him down the depth chart for a couple of years he might play for us like he does for Pittsburgh.

 

[MessierII]

Maybe if we let Schultz develop his game in the AHL for a couple of seasons, and played him down the depth chart for a couple of years he might play for us like he does for Pittsburgh.

Or just didn’t fire Ralph Krueger and replaced him with the worst coach in franchise history.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Or just didn’t fire Ralph Krueger and replaced him with the worst coach in franchise history.

Interesting you brought up Kruegar's 12-13 season.
Lets be honest with this lineup for a second:

Coaching or not, in what universe is this a lineup capable of making the playoffs?

Hall - Nuge - Eberle
Horcoff - Gagner - Yakupov
Smyth - Belanger - Hemsky
Jones - Petrell - Paajaarvi

Whitney - J.Schultz
N.Schultz - Smid
Fistric - Petry
Potter

Dubnyk (pre-Vezina form)
Khabibulin

This is not a team that could have sheltered or develop players properly.

Dubnyk & J.Schultz, left completely shell-shocked. Both managed to find success elsewhere with loads of confidence.

Eberle, Belanger, Gagner, and Hemsky pretty much gave up.
Smyth, Whitney, Jones, Khabbi, Petrell, Paajaarvi, Fistric weren't NHL caliber players.

Horcoff, N.Schultz, Smid, and were barely useful, and traded. Petry was given away for a dime on the dollar.

Who knows what Yakupov might have become if we had some patience, and sent him back to Junior for a couple of years, or let him play in the KHL.
He was leading his team in scoring in the KHL, and was keeping pace with guys like Nick Backstrom, Joe Pavelski, Ryan o Reilly.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Checkout what happened with Niederreiter afer a full year in the AHL:
Nino Niederreiter hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Thought I'd bump this thread and tip my hat to Drake's game last night. He was feisty and in the faces of the Kings nearly all night long. It's nice to have a pest on the team.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Thought I'd bump this thread and tip my hat to Drake's game last night. He was feisty and in the faces of the Kings nearly all night long. It's nice to have a pest on the team.

Good idea. He has been very good for us so far this season.

 

[guymez]

I thought the game against the Kings yesterday was Caggiula's best game of the season.
He was playing like an agitator and thats the role I hope he embraces. This team needs that and Caggiula needs to play like that to be an effective NHL player IMO.

I like the way Hitch articulated it....Caggiula needs to play reckless.

 

[FlameChampion]

I'll eat crow. Hes been really good this year. I was never high on him but hes proving me wrong.

I still dont like him on the PK but I put that on the coaching staff more than him. Cant remember if Hitch has been using him on PK or not.

 

[Mr Positive]

Thought I'd bump this thread and tip my hat to Drake's game last night. He was feisty and in the faces of the Kings nearly all night long. It's nice to have a pest on the team.

my problem with him is that he's not like this enough. Just like Benning, it's long stretches of head shaking and then some brilliant games. I'm not against giving the guy more rope, but with a guy like Zykov coming I got to wonder if players in Caggiula's tier aren't sweating a little more.